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Pac-12 Networks confident, even without DirecTV


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#201 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:50 PM

Well D* better get used to it. Because with the major providers owning RSN's I don't think the sports model is going to change anytime soon unless ALL providers come on board with it, including D* Root sports.

well one thing that can help is for the MLB Zones to get cut down.


I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

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#202 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:00 PM

well one thing that can help is for the MLB Zones to get cut down.


How is that going to help to get new RSN's added to D*?

#203 OFFLINE   tnnolman

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:36 PM

Memo to PAC12 commish Larry Scott: LOWER YOUR DARN PRICE SO PAC12 FANS CAN SEE THE CHANNEL AND MORE SUBSCRIBERS CAN SEE THE PROGRAMMING!!!!!  Now I hope they can get this done by Septemer or It will be BLACKED OUT AGAIN for a 2nd year. Enough Said.



#204 OFFLINE   tnnolman

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:40 PM

The same with LONGHORN NETWORK,CSN Houston.



#205 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 02:07 PM

How is that going to help to get new RSN's added to D*?

cutting down on outer ring areas.


I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#206 OFFLINE   carlsbad_bolt_fan

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 03:25 PM

If it's such a big deal then why have all of the other major providers agreed to terms? Answer...because DirecTV is cheap and they are abandoning the business model that used to make them great.

Or maybe the answers is those other providers don't have nearly the same amount of sports offerings IN TOTAL that DirecTV has and adding the Pac 12 Network gives them a little more. You suggesting that D* has no basis in fact.


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#207 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 03:29 PM

Well D* better get used to it. Because with the major providers owning RSN's I don't think the sports model is going to change anytime soon unless ALL providers come on board with it, including D* Root sports.

 

You do realize that D* sold it's majority stake of Root sports to the Mariners, right?  Back in April. 

 

http://www.ussmarine...root-sports-nw/


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#208 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 03:32 PM

If it's such a big deal then why have all of the other major providers agreed to terms? Answer...because DirecTV is cheap and they are abandoning the business model that used to make them great.

 

All the other major providers haven't come to terms.

 

Last I checked, Verizon, Charter, Directv among others do not carry it.  AT&T is likely to do a deal, though nothing officially has been announced (It will, I'm sure). 

 

A number of years ago sports pricing was much lower and a good chunk of DIRECTV's subscribers were sports fans.  As D* has gotten larger, they have attracted many non sports subscribers as well.  Diversifying their customer base.  They have to answer to all customers, not just one segment.  They have attempted to offer Pac 12 to you and not pass on the costs to those that don't want it.  Pac 12 said no. 


Edited by Satelliteracer, 27 July 2013 - 03:34 PM.

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#209 OFFLINE   chillyfl

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:10 PM

Or maybe the answers is those other providers don't have nearly the same amount of sports offerings IN TOTAL that DirecTV has and adding the Pac 12 Network gives them a little more. You suggesting that D* has no basis in fact.

In my mind this is what it comes down to.  How much better of a deal can DirecTV demand because of, more than anything else, Sunday Ticket.  The biggest  blunder I think Larry Scott made was over estimating the fan base on the West.  For every fan I've heard say they are switching because of P12N, 10 more might be mildly disappointed they will miss a couple games, but not enough to consider leaving Sunday Ticket.

 

If this were playing out in Nebraska, that number would be completely reversed (and probably more like 50 to 1 would leave DirecTV in a heart beat to make sure they didn't miss a Husker game).  The PAC-12 fan base is just not that passionate.  So Scott is asking for Big Ten money and exposure, but doesn't have the fan base to back that up (ironically the football has actually been better in the PAC-12 than Big Ten over the last 10-15 years, but it isn't about how good the product is, but how much do people want to watch it).

 

It is interesting how differently the BTN played out than the P12N.  Initially, the P12N had more distribution than the BTN on opening day.  But what the BTN did in the first year after it debuted blows away the P12N.  To me this suggests that on paper the P12N seemed like a good deal, as they had a solid base on day one.  Reportedly they were (are) asking for same packages as BTN (i.e. Dish 120+, DirecTV Choice), but at a slightly lower rate (per SNL Kagan).  But when BTN started, it appeared there was a lot more movement of customers, and that forced those providers to act to add the BTN.  So while the BTN proved its value, the P12N hasn't seen that customer movement, and was shown to be overpriced, especially for a provider like DirecTV with Sunday Ticket.

 

So if DirecTV doesn't see value in the PAC-12 at their asking price, what does/should the PAC-12 do?  It seems they are left with 2 choices, cut DirecTV a special you've-got-Sunday-Ticket-and-no-one-else-does price, at the risk of undermining future contracts and alienating existing providers.  Or wait out DirecTV in hopes they lose Sunday Ticket exclusivity, and then re-attack.  It appears they are doing the latter.


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#210 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:30 PM

Perhaps it would be good to review who carries it, what they actually carry, and where they carry the channel.

For example, DISH is treating it like any other RSN with one exception: alternate channels. Just like any other RSN, DISH is carrying it in glorious SD with part time HD. The difference is with the alternates ... where other RSNs may not have an alternate there are four dedicated channel numbers set aside for alternate coverage - which may be in SD or HD (and are easier to find than other specific RSN alts). DISH delivers those channels like any other RSN - at what DirecTV would consider "Choice" level in market and in the multi-sports package outside of the home market region. The same placement and availability as the Big 10 on DISH, except Big 10 is DISH's only 24/7 HD RSN.

I don't know how the other "major providers" are carrying the channel. Are they doing main plus several alternatives? Or main plus one alternative? Or just an alternative that serves the local team? Are they placing the channel in a general tier like Choice in market and a sports tier out of market? Are they providing the channel(s) nationally or just in region? There are a lot of variables.

I hope that PAC-12 is looking for carriage similar to DISH on DirecTV - in market Choice plus out of market sports pack, one main channel plus alts. If they are asking for more than that then I'd happily place the "blame" for no carriage on PAC-12's doorstep. Even on the "same terms" DirecTV will provide more carriage than DISH since at least the main feed will be in HD and not "game only". IIRC: The network was originally pitched as seven full time feeds (before anyone picked it up). I don't believe anyone is carrying that.

(Perhaps DirecTV's Big 10 placement is the issue ... where DISH can give PAC-12 the same carriage as Big 10 - in market "choice"/nationwide sports pack - if PAC-12 wants Big 10's carriage on DirecTV that would be nationwide carriage.)


As far as the deeper problem with DirecTV and sports, perhaps it is time for DirecTV to remove the sports pack from Premier. While it is possible to buy Ultimate plus the movie packages without the sports package if non sports people are complaining about DirecTV's high prices perhaps lowering the price on Premier and splitting out the sports pack will bring down the top end price to something less offensive to non sports people. Then again, after years of contracts where sports providers knew they would get national carriage in Premier that may not be possible.
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#211 OFFLINE   Eksynyt

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:52 PM

Stop saying that Pac 12 fans aren't passionate.  It is an outright insult and is not accurate at all.  If what you say is true, then the conference might as well abandon football.



#212 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:53 PM

You do realize that D* sold it's majority stake of Root sports to the Mariners, right?  Back in April. 
 
http://www.ussmarine...root-sports-nw/


Yes but D* still owns the other three, Pittsburgh, Rocky Mountain and Utah.

#213 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:22 PM

If it's such a big deal then why have all of the other major providers agreed to terms? Answer...because DirecTV is cheap and they are abandoning the business model that used to make them great.


This is just wrong. I live three miles from the rose bowl. I have access to a cable company charter, uverse, DIRECTV, and dish. Only dish had the pac12 last year and so far now as well. Not all providers forked over for the channel. FIOS doesn't have it either. There's lots of areas that aren't well covered like the old plan was when all games where on local rsns.

Charging probably double for the same slate if games is ridiculous. The extra stuff is strictly nice to have and will not drive enough subscriptions either way or it to be looked at.

After the Dodgers channel I don't think there's that many more channels pro wise that will pop up. College a few more but pro I doubt it. Look what's happening in Huston. To many dang rsns.

#214 OFFLINE   chillyfl

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:54 PM

The network was originally pitched as seven full time feeds (before anyone picked it up). I don't believe anyone is carrying that.

 

I think a few are.  Bright House (in So Cal area) carries PAC-12 LA on their "standard" package in both SD and HD, and the other 6 channels on their sports package in both SD and HD.  This was in place from day one of the PAC-12 network.

 

Seems like the other cable companies have the PAC-12 regional on a basic package, and then PAC-12 national on a sports package but don't carry all the other 5 regionals.  Some areas (like Portland, OR) will carry two regionals, both PAC-12 OR and PAC-12 WA, plus the national channel.  Out of footprint I've only seen PAC-12 National carried on a sports package, and no PAC-12 regionals.



#215 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:58 PM

The Cal AD was exceptionally un-professional for what used to be a world class university. Maybe it still is, but people like her give the old Uni a black eye. 

 

How much money has he (Larry Scott) brought in? 


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#216 OFFLINE   chillyfl

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 06:01 PM

Stop saying that Pac 12 fans aren't passionate.  It is an outright insult and is not accurate at all.  If what you say is true, then the conference might as well abandon football.

There are passionate fans (I am one, I watch ~20 hours of college football a week during the fall, most of it PAC-12), but there are simply not the numbers like the Big Ten or SEC, and it isn't even close.  The position of strength that a conference network has in negotiations with providers is based on its fan-base, not on its teams.  The PAC-12 does not enjoy the same level of fanatical support that the Big Ten or SEC has, and can't expect the same terms. 


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#217 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 06:21 PM

Exactly. There are over the top sports fanatics from every university, but fewer per capita in the Pac12; fewer just regularly-intense fans, too. I can count on one hand the number of really zealous fans on this board. (But what they've lacked in numbers, they've more than made up in tone and number of posts). 


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#218 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 06:28 PM

Stop saying that Pac 12 fans aren't passionate.  It is an outright insult and is not accurate at all.  If what you say is true, then the conference might as well abandon football.

 

I believe he is saying not as passionate.  I live on the west coast, been attending UCLA games for 20+ years.  Family friends with Terry Donahue and Jim Mora.  Huge Pac 12 fan (go back to the days of it being the Pac 8).  That being said, there is a big difference in the tv ratings, the fannies in the seats compared to the Big Ten, Big 12, SEC.  Just is.  Doesn't mean there aren't very passionate fans here on the west coast, but there are more passionate fan bases elsewhere that deliver the ratings, etc.  

 

Case in point, of the top 20 NCAA attendance rankings for football in 2012.  Six of the top 20 are Big Ten schools, including #1 and #2 and #5.  The Pac 12 has one school in the top 20...USC at #9.  SEC has 8 in the top 20.  Big 12 has two.  ACC has two.  Notre Dame is the lone independent.


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#219 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 06:33 PM

Yes but D* still owns the other three, Pittsburgh, Rocky Mountain and Utah.

 

Utah is a subfeed from Rocky Mountain.  I'd also note that D* didn't go out and aquire these RSNs, it was part of the Liberty spinoff.  Or another way to say it, acquiring networks hasn't been part of the D* strategy.  Sure, they are minority equity partners in some channels, but they have not been like TWC, Comcast, etc in playing the role as distributor and content owner.  Root Sports was part of a spinoff and not an aquisition by D*.


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#220 OFFLINE   tjguitar

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 07:36 PM

One could just as easily argue the Pac 12 has no interest in truly getting their product to D* Pac 12 subscribers, if they did they would allow it to be sold to them a la carte which D* has offered since day one. Instead they want to sell it in to as many customers as they can, regardless if they even can name one Pac 12 university. So it cuts both ways.

Nobody wants to be the network that sets THAT precedent. Why kill the golden goose? As long as they are profitable without DirecTV, and they claim that they are, they will keep the current model.

The P12N should be included in whatever package the rest of the local RSN's are in market and it should be in sports pack out of market. That makes too much sense. But IMO, the big ten network should be like that as well. As long as BTN gets carried in the cheap package everywhere, and I'm sure SECESPN will when it launches, it seems like that is what P12N should strive for.

Edited by tjguitar, 27 July 2013 - 07:37 PM.





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