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Pac-12 Networks confident, even without DirecTV


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#276 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 02:36 PM

In Stroudsbyurg we didn't have the full MSG, what we had was an alternate version called MSG Zone 4, it was mix of MSG and FSNY (now MSG+) programming with a very different schedule (i.e. while FSNY aired TNA Impact on Friday afternoons, MSG Zone 4 had it Saturday nights, while the main MSG feed that NYC and DirecTV had didn't air it at all) and was limited to the Mets, Knicks, about half the Rangers games, no Devils, and no Islanders. When the Mets moved to SNY they dropped MSG entirely in Stroudsburg after the NHL and NBA season was over in 2006, so all they get now is SNY, YES and CSN Philly.

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#277 OFFLINE   thepoloman33

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 02:47 PM

added Comcast during football season last year just for P12 channel.  Wife wasn't too pleased with 2 bills.  I couldn't make the full switch because Comcast service in my area is terrible.  Been pretty satisfied with DTV.

 

I'm getting nervous as we get closer to the start of P12 football.  Of Oregon's first 5 games, 2 will be on P12 channel, and 1 is on Fox Sports 1.  Yikes!  I know this thread is focused on P12 channel - but is anyone else concerned that Fox Sports 1 won't be added?  I assume FS1 replaces the games previously shown on FX?

 

Is it possible that both FS1 and P12N won't be on DTV this season?

 

Go Ducks!



#278 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 03:08 PM

Package changes.


Can't be done unilaterally. The result often winds up like the PAC 12 network.
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#279 OFFLINE   sdk009

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 03:14 PM

added Comcast during football season last year just for P12 channel.  Wife wasn't too pleased with 2 bills.  I couldn't make the full switch because Comcast service in my area is terrible.  Been pretty satisfied with DTV.

 

I'm getting nervous as we get closer to the start of P12 football.  Of Oregon's first 5 games, 2 will be on P12 channel, and 1 is on Fox Sports 1.  Yikes!  I know this thread is focused on P12 channel - but is anyone else concerned that Fox Sports 1 won't be added?  I assume FS1 replaces the games previously shown on FX?

 

Is it possible that both FS1 and P12N won't be on DTV this season?

 

Go Ducks!

Yes FS1 will be replacing games that were on FX. Here's a link to the games scheduled to be on the Fox Networks this fall

http://blog.timesuni...schedule/12733/

 

I too am concerned that D* will not have an agreement with FS1 by 8/29.  It's carrying games involving three PAC 12 teams on the first weekend as is the PAC 12 Net.  That means we could miss 2/3rds of the opening week's games if no deals are struck with FS1 & the PAC12 Net. 

Hardly classifies D* as the sports leader if that pans out.



#280 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 03:17 PM

I also believe Directv will remedy this in the very near future.
 
I would suggest a Base package with and without RSN's  and still the option to add the sports pack if one choses.


You can suggest it ... but don't expect it. Entertainment is the base package without the in market RSNs. Choice and above will continue to have required RSNs. No self respecting RSN would walk away from the in market subscribers (and payment) that being in Choice brings them.

Then if someone wants YES in my case, I pay the extra RSN fee for the 6 months and drop it for the other six months out of the year.


Especially that particular RSN. They want your money ... and they know that sports fans will raise enough hell during the six months that they want the channel that DirecTV will put them in a package where people can't drop just RSNs. And if DirecTV plays hardball (as they apparently are doing with PAC-12) they will walk away and see how DirecTV does without their channel.

YES agreeing to be carried without being in Choice and every higher package? Not likely.

And if the negotiators at YES (or any other RSN) ever agree to such a deal expect the price of their channel to be much higher to compensate for the lost subscribers and ad revenue. High enough that it would be cheaper just to put the channel back in Choice.
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#281 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 04:09 PM


And if the negotiators at YES (or any other RSN) ever agree to such a deal expect the price of their channel to be much higher to compensate for the lost subscribers and ad revenue. High enough that it would be cheaper just to put the channel back in Choice.

 

That's the kicker. DirecTV could probably persuade YES to move to a more select package, IF they made up the revenue, both in terms of fees *and* lost advertising dollars. But then DirecTV would take it in the shorts or have to make the package much higher per actual sub.

 

YES (and the others) understand that the current model serves them well in terms of money. The problem is that they are pushing that model too hard. That they have not learned yet (well, some have).

 

We are on the edge of affordability here. In the battleground. What made sense five years ago and a few sheckles cheaper does not necessarily make sense now and at higher prices. The middle ground has to be found or we will continue to have checkerboard coverage of all RSNs across the different providers as everyone gets more selective. And selection will vary. Provider A will have channels B and C while Provider B may have A and B while Provider C may have A and C. And "bewildered" customers will not understand why they don't have the same stuff.


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#282 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 04:17 PM

Spoke to someone at DIRECTV in retention today and while on the phone asked if she had heard many people complaining about not getting the pac12 network. She said it was rare that anyone mentioned it.

#283 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 04:34 PM

YES (and the others) understand that the current model serves them well in terms of money. The problem is that they are pushing that model too hard. That they have not learned yet (well, some have).


They have learned ... perhaps some year the market will change enough that the roles will reverse - but for now they have learned that being in a Choice level package makes more sense for their bottom line that being distributed to less customers. They sports channels have learned that in most cases it they hold their ground the satellite provider will come to a deal. (Then again, when the terms of the contract is not disclosed perhaps it is the RSN that meets the satellite company in the middle. Based on the increasing costs reported by SNL Kagan, I'd say that the sports channels are still in a position to keep raising rates.)
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#284 OFFLINE   sum_random_dork

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 04:56 PM

Spoke to someone at DIRECTV in retention today and while on the phone asked if she had heard many people complaining about not getting the pac12 network. She said it was rare that anyone mentioned it.

Must be the CSR's when I went through retention she said most of her calls were NFL but after that it was about Pac-12 and when they'd see it.  Probably just depends on the time(s) you call and what call center you get routed to.  But she specifically said Pac-12 was a popular question people asked (I believe she was based in ID).



#285 OFFLINE   majikmarker

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 06:15 PM

As a WSU alum, I would like to have access to the Pac12 network but I'm with Directv on this battle.  And to Larry Scott, I would never even consider dropping DTV in order to get your network.

 

Rights fees for exclusive sports channels are skyrocketing, and if DTV rolled over and gave everyone of them what they were asking, there is no telling how large our monthly bill would be.  I'm a huge sports fan but I can sympathize with the non-sports fans that are fed up with subsidizing all of the "ESPN's" of the world.  I understand that in most cases, large scale Ala Carte models usually don't add up, but for large, specialty sports networks, I think it is the unavoidable future and I would be okay with that.

 

And yes, I realize that my Cougs are barely a Pac12 football team but I have faith in Leach getting things turned around!  If they were better, I might be a little more "stressed"  over this squabble with the Pac12, but still would not leave DTV.  I would find another avenue to see my team (family, friends, bar, etc)


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#286 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:13 PM

I don't think you can necessarily say that, because we don't know what price would have provided value for DirecTV.  The most common estimate (like SNL Kagan,) is the PAC-12 is asking 80 cents per subscriber inside footprint, and 10 cents per sub outside footprint.  If a .60/.08 pricing structure worked for DirecTV, then you may have a point.  But if DirecTV assesses that they really won't lose that many PAC-12 fans, and that the math doesn't make sense until a .20/.03, pricing structure, then no, then I don't think the PAC-12 is making a mistake by not allowing DirecTV to set the price.

 

I also think, for D*, they are using the P12N as a bit of a battleground network to push back on the exploding sports costs, and it may not be a purely economic decision.  Or at least not based just on the economics of P12, but on the larger economic impact of Sports programming in general.  Especially with SEC network coming, to shift the college networks from the BTN construct (everyone gets it) to an ala-carte or sports channel construct would be a huge victory for D*, not just with their negotiation with P12 but for future negotiations.  Right now, all one has to do is call D* to threaten leaving due to P12N to get a free year of Sunday Ticket (I know quite a few people who have done this and some that don't care at all about P12, but have used this for the free Sunday Ticket).  So D* is willing to lose revenue elsewhere in their battle with PAC-12.

 

All that to say, I don't think it is as simple as figuring out the right pricing model that would have worked for D*, and allowing that to set the price for their network for everyone else.  The market has gotten a lot more complicated than that.

I agree.

 

The thing is after Root Sports NW lost the Pac 12 they basically had almost nothing in terms of sports for the winter.   The Supersonics left town and the Blazers went with Comcast and there was nothing beyond high school football and some basketball games from Gonzaga and some other token sports.

 

Before I left Directv I asked about giving up Root NW as a mandatory channel.   They laughed at me,   Root NW is 100% owned by Directv and in every base package   The fact is that so long as Directv pays both sides of the coin on the RSNs then nothing will change.

 

I do agree with Directv on putting the costs on customers for the sports channels   But the thing is for this to work it has to be either ALL  need to be in a sports tier or none.   It doesn;t work to pick and choose like this.



#287 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:53 PM

 

 

Two of my biggest issues in regards this whole disaster of deal DirecTV/Pac 12 had are-

When the deal was on the table for DirecTV (and we were hearing strongly supported rumors it was almost done) that DirecTV walked away from the deal because they wanted to think about it and see if they could get a better deal later.

 

2nd issue is with the RSN surcharge being added to SF Bay Area customers of $2 a month.  When the CSN deals were done a few years ago we never had to have a surcharge.  When you call into DirecTV CSRs they are telling Nor Cal customers that the surcharge is added because of the new Dodgers and Lakers channels.  Well the Lakers and Dodgers are not covered in this market so that doesn't make sense.  If DirecTV had added Pac 12 Network(s) and was adding the $2 charge to help cover the fees on the West Coast I could understand it more.  But a random $2 charge isn't right nor fair to customers who are not receiving anything new.

 

Who said a deal was "almost done"?

 

As far as issue #2 goes, it's not random at all.  A few years ago those costs were X, they are now much higher than X and keep going up year by year with escalator costs that add up quickly, especially on the sports side. 

 

The world has changed a lot with sports and television in the last 5 years.  These channels are paying teams billions of dollars in some cases (Lakers, Angels, Rangers, Dodgers, etc, etc) and expecting to have the next guy just pay for it without thinking twice.  Problem is that there are many customers in the food chain that want nothing to do with those teams, those channels and especially those costs (i.e. increases in their bills).  Now factor in the ability to cord cut or cord shave, and those decisions are lot more complex today than they ever have been.


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#288 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:57 PM

I don't want to fight with you guys. I think everyone is entitled to get their RSN's.

But now that DMAs are getting assessed fees on their RSN's I would say the time has come that RSN should be an optional package across the board.

I also believe Directv will remedy this in the very near future.

 

I would suggest a Base package with and without RSN's  and still the option to add the sports pack if one choses.

 

Then if someone wants YES in my case, I pay the extra RSN fee for the 6 months and drop it for the other six months out of the year.

 

Every distributor would love to do this in my opinion.  Easier said than done when the RSNs are demanding a certain number of eyeballs in penetration and refusing to sell it without that package guarantee.  Interesting times ahead, for distributors, for the networks, for the teams.  Been sort of a mixed bag the last few years.  The Houston RSN has very little carriage, Pac 12 still doesn't have Charter, Directv, Verizon carriage among others, while the Lakers were able to get pretty much everyone.   Have to see what happens in the coming years.


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#289 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 08:45 PM

Ironic that new RSNs like the Pac-12 always insist that many subscribers of a given MVPD want their programming if only the stingy stubborn provider would come to reason.

 

Yet they steadfastly refuse to have their networks placed in an optional sports tier so all those alleged "many subscribers" can pay for it while leaving others who don't care for it (like me admittedly :) ) bills alone. 


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#290 OFFLINE   pdxBeav

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 09:02 PM

I agree.

 

The thing is after Root Sports NW lost the Pac 12 they basically had almost nothing in terms of sports for the winter.   The Supersonics left town and the Blazers went with Comcast and there was nothing beyond high school football and some basketball games from Gonzaga and some other token sports.

 

Before I left Directv I asked about giving up Root NW as a mandatory channel.   They laughed at me,   Root NW is 100% owned by Directv and in every base package   The fact is that so long as Directv pays both sides of the coin on the RSNs then nothing will change.

 

I do agree with Directv on putting the costs on customers for the sports channels   But the thing is for this to work it has to be either ALL  need to be in a sports tier or none.   It doesn;t work to pick and choose like this.

 

ROOT Sports NW is not 100% owned by DirecTV.

 

http://sportspressnw...rts-set-for-big



#291 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:34 AM

Spoke to someone at DIRECTV in retention today and while on the phone asked if she had heard many people complaining about not getting the pac12 network. She said it was rare that anyone mentioned it.

Probably because she has not been in the position for quite awhile and it's a non sports season.   When I quit Directv last October the representative commented that there were a lot of calls about it.   Who really knows.   But I can say this - I know quite a few who dropped.   That's not scientific nor is it going to make Directv change its mind. 



#292 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:36 AM

ROOT Sports NW is not 100% owned by DirecTV.

 

http://sportspressnw...rts-set-for-big

It was until very recently - and when I quit Directv last October, yes it was fully owned.    This article is very recent.



#293 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:38 AM

Ironic that new RSNs like the Pac-12 always insist that many subscribers of a given MVPD want their programming if only the stingy stubborn provider would come to reason.

 

Yet they steadfastly refuse to have their networks placed in an optional sports tier so all those alleged "many subscribers" can pay for it while leaving others who don't care for it (like me admittedly :) ) bills alone. 

This argument has weight if none (or even just a few) of the competitors had the same.
   But they don't.



#294 OFFLINE   camo

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:58 AM

 

 

"One other comment, your "acceptance" of missing a couple games is more typical of us PAC-12 fans.  I married into a Nebraska family, and have spent a lot of time in the Cornhusker State.  I don't know of a single Nebraska fan that would ever accept missing a single game.  At my wedding we had to have TV's at the reception because of an overlap with the Husker game."

 

 

This has always been a big disappointment and problem for pac-12 Arizona schools for generating a fan base. On a good year 5-6 games could be seen on TV. I live  280 miles away and didn't attend many home games. In comparison I also have family in Nebraska and it would be total riot statewide if a game wasn't broadcast. The pac12 has done a horrible job historically getting Arizona schools broadcast for the fans. And now with Directv not carrying P12N it gets worse for all of rural Arizona with no more local RSN coverage spotty as it was. I would say interest levels for college football is at a all time low especially outside metro areas that happen to have cable that carries P12N. I look at this as very damaging and no win situation for all including recruiting athletics for the pac12. 


Edited by camo, 30 July 2013 - 07:00 AM.

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#295 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:34 AM

But it's OK for Directv to force subscribers to pay for the Big 10?  Just doesn't make sense.. Pac12 just wanted the same deal, but it's obvious they are going in a different direction.. Quite alright.

Yes it is OK , because Directv already has a contract with them. Pac12 I'm sure wants a crapload more money then the cost of Big Ten, and when the time comes for contract renewal with Big Ten it might just be a whole different story.

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#296 OFFLINE   kick4fun

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:37 AM

Wow, that's easy for you to say. My area is not served by cable, so I have D*. Which means i will miss 3-5 USC football games this year. From 2002 to 2011 I did not miss one single USC game, every single one was televised. Now it's hello 1970s.

 

Wonderful job? Larry Scott has been a disaster.

 

Really, I dropped Directv for Dish and now have Pac12.. But my point if you read my post was that Larry has done a great job creating revenue for the Pac12.. 3 billion in fact through tv contracts with Fox/ESPN. 


Edited by kick4fun, 30 July 2013 - 07:45 AM.


#297 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:15 AM

Really, I dropped Directv for Dish and now have Pac12.. But my point if you read my post was that Larry has done a great job creating revenue for the Pac12.. 3 billion in fact through tv contracts with Fox/ESPN. 

There's no evidence that the increase in revenues - and he didn't "create" the streams; they were there- wasn't a result of expanded conference and renewal of big bucks contracts with ESPN and Fox at higher rates. The man's an ego maniac. Sorry to say this about your pal. 


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#298 OFFLINE   kick4fun

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:18 AM

There's no evidence that the increase in revenues - and he didn't "create" the streams; they were there- wasn't a result of expanded conference and renewal of big bucks contracts with ESPN and Fox at higher rates. The man's an ego maniac. Sorry to say this about your pal. 

 "Only the money from ESPN and Fox — about $21 million a school per year — is guaranteed" -----taken from http://usatoday30.us...eals/55095542/1

 

The previous Pac10 commish NEVER got this for us.. By adding Colorado and Utah and working out a deal with Fox and ESPN, shows that he is responsible.. Money wasn't there before.. It came under his watch! Are you suggesting it was already gonna happen under previous administration? NOPE! Pac12 networks with full distribution was going to yield more, but I guess that is still in the works.. They at least are being distributed with Comcast, Dish and other providers.. Right now, this is just a pissing match between Larry Scott and Directv. 

 

Not sure why you still think Larry Scott is an ego maniac.. He wants full distribution and Directv doesn't want to pay.. That's all.. Both sides are saying what they will. 


Edited by kick4fun, 30 July 2013 - 09:21 AM.


#299 OFFLINE   TJNash

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:06 AM

 "Only the money from ESPN and Fox — about $21 million a school per year — is guaranteed" -----taken from http://usatoday30.us...eals/55095542/1

 

The previous Pac10 commish NEVER got this for us.. By adding Colorado and Utah and working out a deal with Fox and ESPN, shows that he is responsible.. Money wasn't there before.. It came under his watch! Are you suggesting it was already gonna happen under previous administration? NOPE! Pac12 networks with full distribution was going to yield more, but I guess that is still in the works.. They at least are being distributed with Comcast, Dish and other providers.. Right now, this is just a pissing match between Larry Scott and Directv. 

 

Not sure why you still think Larry Scott is an ego maniac.. He wants full distribution and Directv doesn't want to pay.. That's all.. Both sides are saying what they will. 

With the feeding frenzy we're seeing from the cable nets regarding sports rights, my 3 year old son could have "negotiated" the same deals that Scott did.  A rising tide lifts all boats.



#300 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:25 AM

Bottom line is this - Directv will be watching how many customers they lose in late July and August when customers should be leaving Directv if they really want the Pac 12.   If a LOT leave then maybe you will see some changes....but if a LOT do not leave then do not expect the channel to ever be added.  Last year was a "game" between the two and the uncertainty, etc.  This year its clear there is no Pac 12 on Directv, so fans go in knowing that and can switch if they really want the Pac 12.   Many more customers are now out of contract if that is what they were waiting for.

 

Directv lied to us early on and gave us a line of bull.   I bought it and stayed into October, then I switched to Dish.   Frankly, I am happy with it and the service is fine.   The Hopper is great and it works well.   I did lose some HD channels by switching, but I have the Pac 12.  

 

And this last week the Pac 12 finally rolled out the android app for Pac 12, so far it works great on the phone.    

 

I dont really see alot of people leaving for the one station.  Maybe I am wrong.  There are a lot of Sooners fans here that would probably make the switch if they couldnt get their games.


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