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Pac-12 Networks confident, even without DirecTV


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#51 OFFLINE   hallrk

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:06 AM

Neither side cares about the viewers - they only care about the money.  DirecTV has figured out how many customers whey will lose by not having the PAC 12 versus how much it costs to carry it.  Either way, DirecTV loses money on the deal, but at this point, they figure that they lose less by not having PAC 12 than they would lose by having it.  Yes, some customers have left DirecTV and more may follow, but the effect of these losses is less than what DirecTV would have been paying to the PAC 12.

 

 

Like your avatar. I'm a Kentucky fan too.  :up:



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#52 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:37 AM

WT-

 

Thanks for the complete answer. In addition to being anecdotal and limited, your circle of friends being most likely Pac12 fans, too, further biases any  conclusion. 

 

At the same time, the number leaving DIRECTV over that issue is probably not insignificant. In addition to fleckr's point, agreeing to a high charge to carry will affect all future negotiations, and not just for sports. 


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#53 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 04:25 PM

Okay everyone, discuss the topic and NOT each other.  Last warning.

 

If you have a problem with someone's post report it but do not reply to it.

 

:backtotop

 

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Since it costs 1.66¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 3.32¢ worth.  That 3.32¢ is my own and not the 3.32¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#54 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:53 AM

WT-

 

Thanks for the complete answer. In addition to being anecdotal and limited, your circle of friends being most likely Pac12 fans, too, further biases any  conclusion. 

 

At the same time, the number leaving DIRECTV over that issue is probably not insignificant. In addition to fleckr's point, agreeing to a high charge to carry will affect all future negotiations, and not just for sports. 

Well, being on the west coast where there is a good solid fan base of Pac 12 alumni, of course you will see higher penetration and interest here.   Frankly, this issue is one of the top topics of discussion among college sports fans through the conference.

 

As I have stated the big thing to watch this year is the cancellations on the west coast.   It's well known this year that Directv will NOT have the network, so people do not have the excuse of saying "we'll wait and see what happens."   Directv is not coming on board.   Last year they told us all throughout the summer and into September they were interested in the channel.   We know that conflicted with what the Pac 12 was saying, but people gave it time to see because negotiations always go that way.    Locally, I know that many football  games are already announced for the Pac 12 network come fall and people are already exploring their options.   If they were under a Directv contract a year ago they may not be today, freeing them to switch if they want to.

 

Time will tell.   But it's going to take a LOT of people to leave before Directv would even consider reversing course.   I don't see it happening.   I don't see everyone switching, but I do know various folks that are looking at their options now.   Games start in late August and it's already July.   There is a push on now to get it installed and work out the kinks.

 

The other thing that affects all of this though is reportedly Dish's ESPN contracts are up in August, so we'll have to see how this all fits into the college football season as well.   Hopefully that will get worked out - and Dish customers can end up with all of the WatchESPN/ESPN3 options as well in the process, which would add another dimension to all of this.  

 

We'll just have to see.  But regardless of whether everyone has access or not the fact remains that the channels have done what they are supposed to do - bring in revenue and show more sports that would never get air time somewhere else.    



#55 OFFLINE   Bambler

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:10 AM

I am biased in this matter, insomuch as am I am both an alum and fan.

On the one hand, I can understand both sides playing hardball: DirecTV wants to keep prices down, yet our bills are higher than ever, while the Pac-12 Network wants to make a profit. If this impasse is permanent, I can see where people--such as myself--permanently migrating to the providers that offers the most of what they want. Up until last year, DirecTV was that choice for me, but unfortunately no longer.

I'm sure my sentiment would be shared by SEC alumnists and fans, who may have to make the same tough decision in the future as well, depending on where that conference ends up being shown, and believe me, I will share nothing but empathy and sympathy if they are inconvenienced and forced to make the same difficult choice I did.

I don't believe the Pac-12 network will be a complete success without DirecTV (for the time being), regardless of the rhetoric. However, the importance of DirecTV will diminish among football fans (especially those of us on the west coast), IF Sunday Ticket is no longer carried on DirecTV. I can honestly see a lot of west coast NFL/Pac-12 football fans going to the provider that offers them the most of what they want once this happens.

#56 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:59 AM

Well, I am fully West Coast, but an alumnus of an Eastern university. I'd love to see Pac12 added; I am a fan of good college football, lacrosse, basketball, baseball in about that order. 

 

I am curious as to why you, WT, are so certain there's no possibility for it to be added prior to the first kick off. (I have no info. to the contrary, and pretty much no dog in the fight.)


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#57 OFFLINE   tjguitar

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 04:45 PM

I think it's a tough sell just because the football games that are on P12N are clunkers compared to the P12 games on ESPN and FOX, and the conference has had 'down' years in basketball for a while now, and the other sports just haven't gained enough TV popularity yet. The Pac-12 schools definitely dominate at a lot of sports, but not all of them are ones that people seem to watch on TV...yet. P12N pumps out a lot of women's volleyball and women's basketball games. I enjoy watching volleyball, but I'm not sure how many folks will watch that - especially when it's competing with regular season and postseason MLB for most of it's season. I don't see the NFL Sunday Ticket being that big of a deal at the residential level except for transplants. As it is now, I could switch to Time Warner, but then I wouldn't have the Big Ten Network, or out of market RSNs which show a lot of college hockey which I enjoy. It's frustrating that there isn't one carrier that has all the sports channels...DirecTV used to be the provider you could count on, now customers are forced to pick and choose, also never knowing when a provider is going may drop a channel.

#58 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 04:57 PM

Not being a Pac12 alumnus, I have 0 (zero) interest in all sorts of sports they will televise. I do care about football a lot, BB (both) not so much. I love lacrosse, but it's not D1, 2 or 3 among those schools, so it's not the best. I'd watch an occasional game. 

 

If I were an alum, say of the swimming team, I'd be thrilled at watching my school in a meet, and pay big bucks for the extra channels. But I am neither. The channel will have tremendous desirability among a pretty small group of folks, men and women who are sports fans, (especially those on secondary and tertiary teams), and grads of one of the Uni's involved. 


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#59 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:25 PM

Well, I am fully West Coast, but an alumnus of an Eastern university. I'd love to see Pac12 added; I am a fan of good college football, lacrosse, basketball, baseball in about that order. 

 

I am curious as to why you, WT, are so certain there's no possibility for it to be added prior to the first kick off. (I have no info. to the contrary, and pretty much no dog in the fight.)

All I know is last year I went toe to toe with folks in the CEO's office and little happened.  Upon cancellation I know Directv offered me the store to continue as a customer - I mean seriously everything to significant credits on my account for two years, free everything pay channels for two years, new equipment, pay tv credits, etc. and I just said no.   They easily offered me things where there was no way whatsoever they were going to make money off of me for at least two years.  

 

Couple all this with Directv's stance and Pac 12's comments and I just cannot see any sudden turn around without a new CEO; seriously, after all this time Mike White is going to reverse course?   Not a chance.

 

I can see this happen only if there is a change in management of Directv or a big loss of subs....I just don't see the loss large enough to do it.



#60 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:27 PM

Not being a Pac12 alumnus, I have 0 (zero) interest in all sorts of sports they will televise. I do care about football a lot, BB (both) not so much. I love lacrosse, but it's not D1, 2 or 3 among those schools, so it's not the best. I'd watch an occasional game. 

 

If I were an alum, say of the swimming team, I'd be thrilled at watching my school in a meet, and pay big bucks for the extra channels. But I am neither. The channel will have tremendous desirability among a pretty small group of folks, men and women who are sports fans, (especially those on secondary and tertiary teams), and grads of one of the Uni's involved. 

 

I can say the same about the proposed SEC channel.   I have close to zero percent interest there.   Any big game will be on ESPN or CBS so I am covered anyway....and of course all games to some extent are regional match ups.



#61 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:29 PM

I think it's a tough sell just because the football games that are on P12N are clunkers compared to the P12 games on ESPN and FOX, and the conference has had 'down' years in basketball for a while now, and the other sports just haven't gained enough TV popularity yet. The Pac-12 schools definitely dominate at a lot of sports, but not all of them are ones that people seem to watch on TV...yet. P12N pumps out a lot of women's volleyball and women's basketball games. I enjoy watching volleyball, but I'm not sure how many folks will watch that - especially when it's competing with regular season and postseason MLB for most of it's season. I don't see the NFL Sunday Ticket being that big of a deal at the residential level except for transplants. As it is now, I could switch to Time Warner, but then I wouldn't have the Big Ten Network, or out of market RSNs which show a lot of college hockey which I enjoy. It's frustrating that there isn't one carrier that has all the sports channels...DirecTV used to be the provider you could count on, now customers are forced to pick and choose, also never knowing when a provider is going may drop a channel.

But here is the deal  - its not all about football.   Regardless the channel is great for recruiting, great for exposure great for getting all the other spots on TV.   Its already a success....it could be more of more providers were on board.....

 

Think of it this way, how many college baseball games are broadcast to the nation?   If you are a kid in the midwest getting a scholarship to NCAA champ UCLA that would be awesome that your friends, parents, and others will have the ability to watch you play.    It can absolutely help with recruiting and the like.



#62 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:47 PM

Thanks for your explanations. I hope you're wrong in your conclusion, but can't disagree with your reasoning. 


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#63 OFFLINE   Bambler

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:56 PM

I think it's a tough sell just because the football games that are on P12N are clunkers compared to the P12 games on ESPN and FOX, and the conference has had 'down' years in basketball for a while now, and the other sports just haven't gained enough TV popularity yet. The Pac-12 schools definitely dominate at a lot of sports, but not all of them are ones that people seem to watch on TV...yet.

P12N pumps out a lot of women's volleyball and women's basketball games. I enjoy watching volleyball, but I'm not sure how many folks will watch that - especially when it's competing with regular season and postseason MLB for most of it's season.

I don't see the NFL Sunday Ticket being that big of a deal at the residential level except for transplants.

As it is now, I could switch to Time Warner, but then I wouldn't have the Big Ten Network, or out of market RSNs which show a lot of college hockey which I enjoy. It's frustrating that there isn't one carrier that has all the sports channels...DirecTV used to be the provider you could count on, now customers are forced to pick and choose, also never knowing when a provider is going may drop a channel.


If you want to judge taste, that's your prerogative; every man's junk is another man's treasure. And, what goes up, must come down (and visa-versa). No conference stays up or down for long if history is any lesson, less we all forget.

Frankly, whether DirecTV thinks this market is important or not (sans NFL Sunday Ticket in two years) is for them to estimate and for all of us to look back and ponder.

#64 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:01 PM

I can say the same about the proposed SEC channel.   I have close to zero percent interest there.   Any big game will be on ESPN or CBS so I am covered anyway....and of course all games to some extent are regional match ups.


Yes, that will be true of all of the conference channels. But among the remainder of the fans, the SEC is bigger than the PAC 12 and the Big Ten. At least for football. And football still drives the market.

Personally, I'd love to see them all on. But money and business is driving the truck.
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#65 OFFLINE   Bambler

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:05 PM

That's subjective as well. What do you mean by "bigger."

More money? More national championships? Please explain?

#66 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:06 PM

That's subjective as well. What do you mean by "bigger."
More money? More national championships? Please explain?


Bigger in terms of national interest.
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#67 OFFLINE   Bambler

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:08 PM

And you know this as a fact?

#68 OFFLINE   tjguitar

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:44 PM

But here is the deal  - its not all about football.   Regardless the channel is great for recruiting, great for exposure great for getting all the other spots on TV.   Its already a success....it could be more of more providers were on board.....
 
Think of it this way, how many college baseball games are broadcast to the nation?   If you are a kid in the midwest getting a scholarship to NCAA champ UCLA that would be awesome that your friends, parents, and others will have the ability to watch you play.    It can absolutely help with recruiting and the like.


Unfortunately the P12N has not done for baseball what it has done for volleyball and basketball and there are way less games on TV than the other big conferences even though those conferences don't have their own network. There were around 30 baseball games on the Pac 12 network last season. Somestimes only 1 game on a whole weekend. The SEC and ACC had way more of their baseball games televised, not only regionally, but nationally on ESPNU. Hopefully that will change - I believe P12N went over budget in the first half, so the televised spring sports schedule was lightened a bit.

The SEC and ACC both had a game of the week on ESPNU after the college basketball season ended. They also had several games on Fox Sports Net and Comcast Sports. I saw more SEC and ACC games on our local Fox Sports Net affiliate, Prime Ticket than the Pac 12, Big West and West Coast Conferences combined.

LSU sells out a 11k stadium for baseball. If you watched the College World Series, Omaha was dominated by Mississippi State fans. Pac-12 schools do not seem to draw that well in baseball at the stadium, and perhaps on TV as well. I think part of it is most of these schools are competing against pro teams (and not just baseball) for eyeballs, not to mention the beach and what not. Not so much in Louisana or Mississippi.


Don't get me wrong - the P12N is great for the local area, despite DirecTV, and I really hope UVerse picks up the channel.

Edited by tjguitar, 03 July 2013 - 10:45 PM.


#69 OFFLINE   tjguitar

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:52 PM

Frankly, whether DirecTV thinks this market is important or not (sans NFL Sunday Ticket in two years) is for them to estimate and for all of us to look back and ponder.

I just don't see how Sunday Ticket is relevant to the casual sports fan at this point. Red Zone is widely available and there's a ton of games already on CBS, FOX, NBC, ESPN and NFL Network. Unless you are a fan of a specific team I just don't see it.


By the way, I feel the same way about MLB Extra Innings, NBA League Pass and NHL Center Ice. Between ESPN, TBS, FOX, WGN, MLB Network and your local RSN's, there's a ton of baseball games. Between ESPN,TNT,NBA TV, ABC and your RSN's, there's a ton of basketball games. Between NBC, NBCSN, NHL Network and your local RSN's, there's a ton of hockey games.


Obviously there is a market or they wouldn't offer the packages (and I'm sure they are still widely sold in sports bars), but at the residential level, outside of transplants, I just don't need those packages anymore, but if I moved to another part of the country, I might have a different opinion. It also probably helps that I have 2 teams each of NBA, MLB and NHL in my market.

Edited by tjguitar, 03 July 2013 - 11:15 PM.


#70 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:17 AM

And you know this as a fact?


Yes. From 2011 season (reported in February 2012):

"According to Nielsen, the SEC was far and away the most watched conference in college football last fall. The league averaged a shade under 4.5 million viewers per telecast. That figure was about 1.2 million more than the next-highest conference, the Big Ten with almost 3.3 million per telecast. Believe it or not, the third-highest conference was the ACC with 2.65 million viewers per telecast. The Big 12 was fourth with 2.3 million per telecast, the Pac-12 was fifth with 2.1 million per telecast, and the Big East was sixth with 1.9 million per telecast."

Nasty facts get in the way sometimes.
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#71 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:40 AM

Unfortunately the P12N has not done for baseball what it has done for volleyball and basketball and there are way less games on TV than the other big conferences even though those conferences don't have their own network. There were around 30 baseball games on the Pac 12 network last season. Somestimes only 1 game on a whole weekend. The SEC and ACC had way more of their baseball games televised, not only regionally, but nationally on ESPNU. Hopefully that will change - I believe P12N went over budget in the first half, so the televised spring sports schedule was lightened a bit.

The SEC and ACC both had a game of the week on ESPNU after the college basketball season ended. They also had several games on Fox Sports Net and Comcast Sports. I saw more SEC and ACC games on our local Fox Sports Net affiliate, Prime Ticket than the Pac 12, Big West and West Coast Conferences combined.

LSU sells out a 11k stadium for baseball. If you watched the College World Series, Omaha was dominated by Mississippi State fans. Pac-12 schools do not seem to draw that well in baseball at the stadium, and perhaps on TV as well. I think part of it is most of these schools are competing against pro teams (and not just baseball) for eyeballs, not to mention the beach and what not. Not so much in Louisana or Mississippi.


Don't get me wrong - the P12N is great for the local area, despite DirecTV, and I really hope UVerse picks up the channel.

Not totally true.   Nearly every single Oregon State Pac 12 baseball game was available by webstream through the Pac 12 Network, whether it was home or away (conference games).   Several were on live TV as well.   I can't say the same about every Pac 12 team because I didn't look, but I do know when Oregon State was playing the other teams in the away Pac 12 stadiums we got most of the games.   The Pac 12 Network says that this being the first year they were not completely set up this year to broadcast them all.   Going forward they've maintained that will change.   But they were available on the webstream, which was not perfect, but it was better than the option I had before!

 

All Pac 12 basketball games were televised, whether it was on ESPN channels, Fox channels, or the Pac 12 Network, so I don't understand the comment there were more ACC and SEC games on TV.   There were a few away games out of conference that didn't make it to the TV because it was owned by the other conference.

 

Again, the channels are successful and will continue to grow.   This was the 1st year and in this 1st year Pac 12 did show more sports than the Big 10 showed in its first year.   I expect in the years to come it will get better.   Now just because everyone does not have access does not make it a failure.   Really, they do not care about us and whether I can or cannot see it.   Its bringing in cash and more exposure than before to most sports,   Yes, in the past nearly every football game was televised somewhere and you could pick up sports pack to get it.   Now you can't....but Pac 12 is making more money off it.


Edited by WebTraveler, 04 July 2013 - 07:43 AM.


#72 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:41 AM

Yes. From 2011 season (reported in February 2012):

"According to Nielsen, the SEC was far and away the most watched conference in college football last fall. The league averaged a shade under 4.5 million viewers per telecast. That figure was about 1.2 million more than the next-highest conference, the Big Ten with almost 3.3 million per telecast. Believe it or not, the third-highest conference was the ACC with 2.65 million viewers per telecast. The Big 12 was fourth with 2.3 million per telecast, the Pac-12 was fifth with 2.1 million per telecast, and the Big East was sixth with 1.9 million per telecast."

Nasty facts get in the way sometimes.

Ratings wise right now the SEC is getting more nationwide ratings, no doubt.   



#73 OFFLINE   FLWingNut

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:57 AM

I just don't see how Sunday Ticket is relevant to the casual sports fan at this point. Red Zone is widely available and there's a ton of games already on CBS, FOX, NBC, ESPN and NFL Network. Unless you are a fan of a specific team I just don't see it.


By the way, I feel the same way about MLB Extra Innings, NBA League Pass and NHL Center Ice. Between ESPN, TBS, FOX, WGN, MLB Network and your local RSN's, there's a ton of baseball games. Between ESPN,TNT,NBA TV, ABC and your RSN's, there's a ton of basketball games. Between NBC, NBCSN, NHL Network and your local RSN's, there's a ton of hockey games.


Obviously there is a market or they wouldn't offer the packages (and I'm sure they are still widely sold in sports bars), but at the residential level, outside of transplants, I just don't need those packages anymore, but if I moved to another part of the country, I might have a different opinion. It also probably helps that I have 2 teams each of NBA, MLB and NHL in my market.

As a displaced Detroit sports fan in Florida, I can tell you these packages are important to me. I've had Center Ice since '98 and had ST the last two seasons. These out of market packages definitely fill a need.

#74 OFFLINE   davidatl14

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:58 AM

Yes. From 2011 season (reported in February 2012):

"According to Nielsen, the SEC was far and away the most watched conference in college football last fall. The league averaged a shade under 4.5 million viewers per telecast. That figure was about 1.2 million more than the next-highest conference, the Big Ten with almost 3.3 million per telecast. Believe it or not, the third-highest conference was the ACC with 2.65 million viewers per telecast. The Big 12 was fourth with 2.3 million per telecast, the Pac-12 was fifth with 2.1 million per telecast, and the Big East was sixth with 1.9 million per telecast."

Nasty facts get in the way sometimes.

 

 

Ownage ! on the Ratings.

 

That said ,I hope to see DirecTV work out a deal to show Primary feed of the PAC 12 network.


Edited by davidatl14, 04 July 2013 - 09:13 AM.

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#75 OFFLINE   tjguitar

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:22 AM

Not totally true. Nearly every single Oregon State Pac 12 baseball game was available by webstream through the Pac 12 Network, whether it was home or away (conference games).


I was referring to TV games only, not web streams.

All Pac 12 basketball games were televised, whether it was on ESPN channels, Fox channels, or the Pac 12 Network, so I don't understand the comment there were more ACC and SEC games on TV. There were a few away games out of conference that didn't make it to the TV because it was owned by the other conference.

I was referring to baseball.

Edited by tjguitar, 04 July 2013 - 10:28 AM.





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