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Guest Message by DevFuse

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SD has top and bottom bars that requires use of zoom


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27 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Devorandy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 12:30 PM

I noticed today that both hd /lcd tvs have top and bottom bars on all channels, including premium channels. One tv has zoom that takes care of the bars, but reduces pq. The other tv does not have zoom so I have top and bottom bars with no solution. SD receiver and tvs are set on 16:9.I am wondering if receiver is at fault or has something changed with DTV. The guide fills the screen without zoom on both sets.



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#2 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 01:43 PM

Edit: Add: Please list the receiver model numbers that you are using.

 

For the HD receivers, check this,

Menu, Settings, Display, Video, Screen Format: Set to Pillar Box, also set Native to ON

next

TV Ratio, make sure there is a check mark in 16:9.

 

For the receiver feeding the SD TV it should be set to Standard 4:3 in TV Ratio

 

After you have set that you can mess with the Format button on the remote. It will cycle thru all available Formats out of the receiver.

Try that and see what happens.

 

Make sure that your Picture is not set to Stretch mode in the TV.


Edited by jimmie57, 07 July 2013 - 02:32 PM.

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HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#3 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 02:11 PM

For the HD receivers, check this,

Menu, Settings, Display, Video, Screen Format: Set to Pillar Box, also set Native to ON

next

TV Ratio, make sure there is a check mark in 16:9.

 

For the receiver feeding the SD TV it should be set to Standard 4:3 in TV Ratio

 

After you have set that you can mess with the Format button on the remote. It will cycle thru all available Formats out of the receiver.

Try that and see what happens.

 

Make sure that your Picture is not set to Stretch mode in the TV.

Its a bit confusing;

 

As it sounds like the TS has SD receivers with the receivers' and TV sets on 16:9 display mode. If so, this should result in a 4:3 to 16:9 stretched picture (or "stretch-o-vision") on a HD LCD TV which will have matte bars on the top and bottom if the native image is in 4:3 letter-box or stretch-o-vision full screen if the native is 4:3 full.

 

Setting 16:9 or 4:3 mode on an SD receiver should have no effect on the picture since its actually for handling anamorphic video which is now obsolete and thus a holdover feature capability from a past era.  


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#4 OFFLINE   Devorandy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:06 PM

MY receiver is a D12 700. The horizontal bars appeared recently and as I said, only my sharp will fill the screen with zoom. Just checked ratio on receiver and toggled back and forth from 16:9 to 4:3. I had already tried that about 6 times and there was no change. Now everything is back to normal on both tv's. The only thing I can figure is something was going on with receiver or directv. Thanks for the information. Yes, I always had to use smart stretch on the sharp, but that was still much better than zoom which was grainy. I believe that PQ returned to normal also and not because of not using zoom. Weird, glitch or gremlin?Thanks again.



#5 OFFLINE   Devorandy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:08 PM

I just looked back at Sharp screen and problem has returned minutes after my last post. Horizontal bars and slightly diminished PQ. Crap!



#6 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:24 PM

I just looked back at Sharp screen and problem has returned minutes after my last post. Horizontal bars and slightly diminished PQ. Crap!

OK;

 

Now most of my SD channels are hidden since I'm an HD sub. with "Hide SD Duplicates" option selected. But while I can unmask the SD dups. for testing, for now I'm watching "Sergeant Rutledge" on the Encore Western theme channel on ch. 568 which is an SD channel in 4:3 full on my Genie which should fill your screen in stretch-o-vision.

 

Do you have the Encore theme channels? How does Encore Western look on your D12?     


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#7 OFFLINE   Devorandy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:44 PM

HoTat 2. I don't have encore. The horizontal  bars re-appeared on all channels as magically as they disappeared without changes to tv or DTV receiver. The PQ also diminished as the bars re-appeared. The Sharp TV stretch and smart stretch doesn't eliminate bars as it did before. The Vizio will not fill screen because it doesn't have zoom so bars are there no matter the setting.This happened  in a moment after posting everything was back to normal.



#8 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:54 PM

You said "My Receiver". Do you just have one receiver feeding multiple TVs ?

If so, how are they connected to the receiver ?

 

I have and my neighbor has a Vizio and they both have zoom on them. Are you sure you don't have that on yours ?

Use the TV remote, hit Menu, then choose Wide, then you choose stretch, etc.


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HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#9 OFFLINE   Devorandy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:56 PM

Commercial display full screen as well as REELZ and Bravo.



#10 OFFLINE   Devorandy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:02 PM

Both TV's connected to  same receiver. One connected by s-video and the other by RCA or composite. I have had this setup for years and this just happened today. Like I said, it just did an independent flip flop. Vizio has no zoom that I can find , it cycles through 4:3, 16:9 and panoramic ( which I assume is their stretch.  


Edited by Devorandy, 07 July 2013 - 04:03 PM.


#11 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:10 PM

OK  I have SD channels unmasked;

 

Lets try TVLand on 304 right now which is airing the Golden Girls and its in 4:3 full. What do you have there? 


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#12 OFFLINE   Devorandy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:12 PM

full screen on TV land as well as REEZ, Bravo and perhaps a few others



#13 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:22 PM

Alright I don't think anything is wrong;

 

Maybe things have sort crept up on you with either the networks or DIRECTV broadcasting many more SD channels in letterbox particularly on the premiums.

 

But for one more check, what premium channels do you have so I can check them on this end?


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#14 OFFLINE   Devorandy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:27 PM

I have HBO. I have to point out that it changed back to full screen on both tv's, using stretch, for about 5 minutes. When they went back to full screen, both tv's also reverted back to original PQ. I'm thinking this switch back and forth can only mean some problem and most likely with receiver as both tv's experienced same problem simultaneously.



#15 OFFLINE   Devorandy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:29 PM

I was watching HBO when the flip to normal occurred, it went to full screen, no hoz. bars and PQ was back to normal. Again, this flip lasted about 5 minutes, then back to poor PQ and hoz bars.


Edited by Devorandy, 07 July 2013 - 04:32 PM.


#16 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 05:13 PM

I was watching HBO when the flip to normal occurred, it went to full screen, no hoz. bars and PQ was back to normal. Again, this flip lasted about 5 minutes, then back to poor PQ and hoz bars.

OK, this appears to be just the way the HBO SD feeds are now broadcast. The HD feeds are down-converted with the active format as 16:9 in a 4:3 letter-box for the main movie material in which case the black matte bars would be normal.

 

However when the commercials and promos are shown the active format may switch the image to 4:3 full and center-cut accounting for the occasional "flip" to full screen you see.

 

Now I don't know if either DIRECTV is receiving the separate SD feeds from HBO and others this way or if they're creating them locally by converting the HD feeds this way in accordance with an "active format description" (AFD) code sent by the networks and then broadcasting them on their SD network.

 

Anyway, as I said there are other premium channels in 4:3 full. 


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#17 OFFLINE   Devorandy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 05:30 PM

Thanks for your responses. It may well be my description of the problem, but you are not grasping that this flip occurred as I was watching HBO, but was not confined to HBO. You also do not seem to be comprehending that with the flip from full screen to hoz. bars was a significant downgrade of picture quality. I noticed the bars this afternoon and my first thought was to hit the wide aspect button. This had no affect and after trying every combination of aspect ratio setting on both tvs and the receiver with no affect there was a 5 minute return to normal then back to hoz bars and poor PQ except for REELZ, Bravo, TV land, but the PQ still sucked on those channels. If it's not the receiver are you suggesting that Directv signal being transmitted is changing in this fashion. Remember , we are not talking about just HBO or any single channel. You seem very knowledgeable about DTV, but seem to be missing the simplicity of what is happening. I hope I don't sound haughty because that is not my intention. I really appreciate your time and thoughts. 



#18 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:02 PM

Am I missing something, Why not upgrade to HD?  :confused:


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#19 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:16 PM

Could your TV monitor be hosed? I'd place a wee bet on that. 


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#20 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:37 PM

If the 4:3 full-screen content looks good, that's the best you can hope for as it has the greatest number of pixels.  Anything else is going to be a zoom in of a relatively low active pixel count SD rendition.  The effective matrix of a letterbox channel is somewhere along the 25-35% of the resolution of your TV and that's simply not going to look particularly fabulous as you're seeing at least a 3:1 upscale.

 

If you're wondering why some (or all) are confused, in your OP you state that zooming in makes the picture worse (expected) and then in post #17 you say that zooming out (going "to hoz. bars" in your parlance) makes the picture worse (not expected).


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