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HR24 Simultaneous Output


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14 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   HDJulie

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 05:31 PM

My sister recently received an HR24-200 to replace another HR24 that had died.  They live in a small house with an open floor plan & no wiring in the kitchen/dining area.  I sent her a 40' HDMI cable to connect the HR24 to the TV on a table in the kitchen/dining area & they have component cables to connect to the TV in the living room.  I have a similar set up where an HR24 & an HR44 each have both component & HDMI connections to two TVs.  My setup works fine.  Hers does not.  She cannot watch on the living room TV unless the kitchen TV is on.  Could this be an issue with the HDMI cable?  Why would the kitchen TV have to be on for her to get output through the component cables?



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#2 OFFLINE   sbl

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 05:40 PM

I ran into this with my HR44. If the HDMI cable is connected to a TV and the TV is off, the component output is disabled. I am not sure why this is. It could depend on how the TV treats the HDMI connection when the TV is off. An experiment - unplug the TV and see if it does the same thing.


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#3 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:03 PM

It depends on what she's watching.  If she's trying to watch HBO, Cinemax or any other copy protected channel she needs to either have the kitchen TV on, for HDCP handhake via HDMI, or disconnect the HDMI cable.


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#4 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:05 PM

I ran into this with my HR44. If the HDMI cable is connected to a TV and the TV is off, the component output is disabled. I am not sure why this is. It could depend on how the TV treats the HDMI connection when the TV is off. An experiment - unplug the TV and see if it does the same thing.

You're close... It has to do with HDCP. If the TV that is connected via HDMI is turned off and the programming that is being shown is set to comply with HDCP, it will not display content on the component connected TV. This is because the HDMI handshake between the DVR and the one TV is not successful.

There are basically a few ways around this. One way is to leave the TV on that has the HDMI cable connected to it. That's usually not something that people will do. Another option is to run the HDMI cable to a powered HDMI splitter, such as one that Monoprice sells. The powered splitter tricks the DVR to thinking that the HDMI handshake is there even when the TV is off. This would actually allow the person to then run an HDMI cable to both TV's. If the one TV only accepts component, that's fine as the splitter would just have the one HDMI cable coming out of it, but the HDCP issue should be resolved.

The easeist solution though is to just disconnect the HDMI cable from either the TV or the DVR when trying to watch something on the component connected TV that requires HDCP.

- Merg

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Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#5 OFFLINE   HDJulie

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:24 PM

I don't think the content will be the issue.  They have no pay channels & don't download VOD.  As I mentioned, I have a similar set up & I can watch either TV without the other being on.  They're workaround is to have the kitchen TV on but it would be nice to figure out what the issue is. 



#6 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:04 PM

I don't think the content will be the issue. They have no pay channels & don't download VOD. As I mentioned, I have a similar set up & I can watch either TV without the other being on. They're workaround is to have the kitchen TV on but it would be nice to figure out what the issue is.


The issue is HDCP. Many channels employ it, however, not every show on a channel will have it.


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Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#7 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:07 PM

I don't think the content will be the issue.  They have no pay channels & don't download VOD.  As I mentioned, I have a similar set up & I can watch either TV without the other being on.  They're workaround is to have the kitchen TV on but it would be nice to figure out what the issue is. 

 

If leaving their kitchen tv on is a fix then their issue is most definitely HDCP, content protection.


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#8 OFFLINE   HDJulie

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:11 PM

I'll ask her what channels she is watching.  I've had my DVR's set up like this for 7 years & have never had a problem but then again, we watch mostly the History channel, Science channel, Discovery -- that kind of thing. 

 

Let me make sure that I understand -- the content protection -- it's sensing that there is an HDMI cable plugged into a TV & won't play unless it can tell that the TV is on? 



#9 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 09:43 PM

There are other ways to create the handshake needed to convince the HDCP gate that it's all right to let the signal out. A TV is the usual thing that provides the assurances to the gatekeeper. 


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#10 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:33 PM

I'll ask her what channels she is watching. I've had my DVR's set up like this for 7 years & have never had a problem but then again, we watch mostly the History channel, Science channel, Discovery -- that kind of thing.

Let me make sure that I understand -- the content protection -- it's sensing that there is an HDMI cable plugged into a TV & won't play unless it can tell that the TV is on?


Basically. If the HDMI handshake does not complete, the component output will not work for HDCP programming. As mentioned, if you want to keep the HDMI cable connected and don't want to keep the one TV on all the time, you need to trick the DVR into thinking that the HDMI handshake has completed. The easiest way is to use a powered HDMI splitter.


- Merg

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#11 OFFLINE   HDJulie

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:11 AM

And this handshake only occurs if an HDMI cable is detected?  It doesn't occur if there are only component cables attached, which is why the living room TV would work if the HDMI cable was unplugged from the kitchen TV.

 

I'm going to have her do a test.  I know from personal experience that channel 284 can be viewed on a TV with component cables while the HDMI TV is off.  I'll have her turn on the kitchen TV & change to channel 284.  Then turn off the kitchen TV & turn on the living room TV.  If it still doesn't work then it's not an HDCP issue.  If that still leaves some debate, then I'll turn on my TV with component cables at the same time she is trying hers with us both on channel 284.  If mine works & hers doesn't then it is not an HDCP issue.



#12 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 07:51 AM

And this handshake only occurs if an HDMI cable is detected? It doesn't occur if there are only component cables attached, which is why the living room TV would work if the HDMI cable was unplugged from the kitchen TV.

I'm going to have her do a test. I know from personal experience that channel 284 can be viewed on a TV with component cables while the HDMI TV is off. I'll have her turn on the kitchen TV & change to channel 284. Then turn off the kitchen TV & turn on the living room TV. If it still doesn't work then it's not an HDCP issue. If that still leaves some debate, then I'll turn on my TV with component cables at the same time she is trying hers with us both on channel 284. If mine works & hers doesn't then it is not an HDCP issue.


Correct. If you just have a component cable connected HDCP is not an issue. HDCP can only be enforced over HDMI (digital) and not component (analog).

Your simultaneous test would be a good way to verify whether HDCP is the issue (and I think you will find that it is).


- Merg

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#13 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:38 PM

I thn its more sorted than this in terms of how it decides if its hdcp issue. I think sometimes even if you leave a hdcp channel it will still rememeber and lock it up. Its really a pain, and unplugging hdmi is the only way around it if they aren't both turned on. Otherwise its going to be hit and miss.

#14 OFFLINE   HDJulie

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 05:35 PM

Update on this issue.  My sister finally made time to do a test.  I had her turn the kitchen TV on & change the channel to 284 (Science channel).  She did this today at 5:05 PM.  I then had her turn off the kitchen TV but make sure that the HR24 was still on.  I then had her turn on the living room TV.  It did not work -- the living room TV still did not have output from the HR24.  I just tried the same thing on two of my DVRs -- an HR24 & an HR44 & on both, the component connection played channel 284 while the HDMI connected TV was off.  So, I'm certain it is not an HDCP issue.  Could the length of the HDMI cable (40') or the rating of the cable be the culprit?  The next time I am there I'll help her switch out the HR24 with another one from a different room & see what happens.



#15 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 06:37 PM

Update on this issue. My sister finally made time to do a test. I had her turn the kitchen TV on & change the channel to 284 (Science channel). She did this today at 5:05 PM. I then had her turn off the kitchen TV but make sure that the HR24 was still on. I then had her turn on the living room TV. It did not work -- the living room TV still did not have output from the HR24. I just tried the same thing on two of my DVRs -- an HR24 & an HR44 & on both, the component connection played channel 284 while the HDMI connected TV was off. So, I'm certain it is not an HDCP issue. Could the length of the HDMI cable (40') or the rating of the cable be the culprit? The next time I am there I'll help her switch out the HR24 with another one from a different room & see what happens.


Well, that still isn't conclusive. Here is why...

I have a couple hdmi matrix switches. One is 4x1 the other is 5x2 and allows any input to either or both outputs.

When I have a Hi Definition DVR plugged into the first one, everything works fine.

However, if I use the other one, all hell breaks lose and if I leave the DVR as a source and come back, it doesn't work again unless I power the the switch and the dvr off and then back on.

I believe it has to do with what happens when you turn the units off. If they still show in some way as being connected but not being used, it likely makes the unit think that since it can't confirm what kind of connection it is, it locks it out. Where as if it shuts off any feedback, it feels like its released and no longer hooked up.

The units seem to care if they know they are hooked up to an hdmi source but can't identify it, no matter what station it is on.

That's my guess on the reasoning, but not positive.

Either way. What happens if she simply unplugs the hdmi cable when she's watching the component output TV? Does it start working then? If so, I'd say it has something todo with the TV and what it is telling the DVR while its plugged into it and turned off. Maybe a solution might be to add a hdmi switch and turn it to a different input that has nothing on it instead of the TV.





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