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night owl this 1:30am update sucks


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71 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 01:18 AM

James, you should know - new FW will reboot a DVR that time when it will finish reprogramming flash memory or set all files for that part of updating.
Updating EPG (as NIT and SDT updating/reloading each four hours) is happening at least four times per 24 hrs. Well known fact - see by yourself logs of changes PID 0x300 (9 days EPG)


The EPG stream changes every few hours, but that does not mean the receiver is reading it every few hours. DISH receivers only read the 9 day EPG stream when they are not busy doing other things. (The present/next EPG is read constantly and updates the current and next program as the day progresses but the 9 day EPG is not read constantly on a DISH receiver.)

And firmware only begins to download when the receiver is "OFF" (in standby). If the receiver is ON or recording the receiver does not begin the firmware download process. The nightly reboot puts the receiver in a state where both of these updates can take place - receiver "OFF" and idle.
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#52 ONLINE   P Smith

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 02:55 AM

James,

Nothing changed in methodology of streaming system tables and SW/FW updates; all models of receivers/DVRs working fine up today.

With or without user changeable time for the reboots.

 

Reason(s) for the 1:30am forced reboot ["update"] of H/H2 is not feasibly procuring.



#53 OFFLINE   locutus

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:51 PM

Wow. talk about getting off into the weeds. who cares whether or not it actually updates or just reboots or spews bits all over the floor. The issue is that, whatever it does, it does it in its own good time, and that it disrupts viewing without much regard to whether or not the unit is in use. Being able to schedule the "update"/"reboot"/spew would be the most desirable option, but I would be happy if it would just recognize that playing a recorded show, like recording a show, is not "inactivity", and it should wait until the playback completes before it throws anything up on the screen or begins its own little tidy-up process.


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#54 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:39 AM

Reason(s) for the 1:30am forced reboot ["update"] of H/H2 is not feasibly procuring.


True it is not "feasibly procuring" ... since that might as well be written "nescio quomodo opera."

DISH receivers and DVRs are not designed to run 24/7. They need to go into standby. The scheduled reboots are part of the design to make sure that the receivers go into standby. Many things happen when a receiver reboots and goes into standby, including the updates I have spoken about in this thread.


I agree with those who would like to be able to set their own reboot/update time.

It would be nice if the receiver recognized playback as activity. But what is playback? Watching something live that is delayed by a few minutes could be considered playback ... pausing live TV then leaving the room is one of the situations where the update is most annoying. (If I'm watching a DVRd event I can always restart it after the reboot. Delayed live TV means the buffer is lost.)

If one pauses live TV and walks away the buffer fills and when full playback begins. If anyone is watching they are seeing what came over the satellite an hour ago. My wife does this regularly - she pauses TV, leaves the room to check something on her computer and gets distracted - when the buffer fills the program starts playing.

How does the receiver know if someone is watching a paused screen or a delayed live TV playback? It could be my wife who walked away - perhaps even turning off the TV without turning off the receiver. The receiver is happily playing one hour delayed content to no one.

Perhaps some alogarythm that says "if the receiver has not rebooted since 1:00am local AND there has been no remote control activity in one hour: prompt then reboot." Or (preferably) let the user set the standard reboot time.

Personally I believe it would be easier to let the user pick a time than write the alogrythm.
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#55 ONLINE   P Smith

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:58 AM

your idea in last phrase  is sharing by many customers as we get the point's discussion a couple times already

 

as to the algo, I would say it wouldn't hard to implement:

- major trigger - standby mode (100% chances to do the night reboot);

- if there is scheduled recording activity going in background - delay reboot and wait for true standby status,

- if OS missed night window - postpone it for next night,

- after X days of skipping the reboot - give a warning to the customer about soon happening reboot as mandatory action and propose to provide by him a time of a day or next night in true standby mode (in case of non-response [say, on vacation] - do force reboot).


Edited by P Smith, 14 November 2013 - 12:59 AM.


#56 OFFLINE   david_jr

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 07:37 AM

A good suggestion, but I suppose no matter how written there would be a scenario that would leave an angry customer.  I think they should just let the user set the time, then if they miss something they only have themselves to blame.



#57 OFFLINE   some guy

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 09:30 AM

psmith is right, the stb looks to updates every few hours (4 I believe) and fills itself in accordingly. The nightly update rebuilds the epg table. I'm sure they will problably eventually address the udpate time but maybe its a little more complicated than everyone thinks. I'm guessing that when you have clients relying on a host then the timing must be perfect in the way they power down and fire back up so that there are no issues when they all come back online.



#58 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:46 PM

psmith is right, the stb looks to updates every few hours (4 I believe) and fills itself in accordingly. The nightly update rebuilds the epg table. I'm sure they will problably eventually address the udpate time but maybe its a little more complicated than everyone thinks. I'm guessing that when you have clients relying on a host then the timing must be perfect in the way they power down and fire back up so that there are no issues when they all come back online.


I would believe that having Joeys in the picture might complicate things but the thing is my Joey almost never reboots at the same time as the Hopper it's linked to. If it's such an issue then the linked Hopper/Joey pair should synchronize their update times if they're ever different.


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#59 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:58 PM

- major trigger - standby mode (100% chances to do the night reboot);
- if there is scheduled recording activity going in background - delay reboot and wait for true standby status,


That much is already being done. While recording the receiver will not automatically reboot.
And I have completely missed a reboot on a night when I've told it no every hour or had recordings all night long.
 

- if OS missed night window - postpone it for next night,
- after X days of skipping the reboot - give a warning to the customer about soon happening reboot as mandatory action and propose to provide by him a time of a day or next night in true standby mode (in case of non-response [say, on vacation] - do force reboot).


Once a receiver is targeted for an update it is best that it takes the update. Not only do some of the "bugs" get fixed but there can be new features that DISH is relying on getting deployed. There is no time (unless the receiver crashes or the user forces a reboot) that the receiver will reboot during a recording.

Are you proposing that the receiver stay on for several days straight with no nightly reboot? Rely on the customer always turning off the receiver to put it in standby every night?
 

psmith is right, the stb looks to updates every few hours (4 I believe) and fills itself in accordingly.


Are you talking about EPG updates? If that statement were true for EPG updates new channels that were added during the day they would have their full EPG within four hours. Customers are not getting full EPG for new channels until the next day (after the nightly reboot and EPG download). The data is there ... as anyone who has forced an EPG download can attest ... but the receiver is not looking for a full update 24/7.

Firmware updates only come when in standby.
 

I'm sure they will problably eventually address the udpate time but maybe its a little more complicated than everyone thinks. I'm guessing that when you have clients relying on a host then the timing must be perfect in the way they power down and fire back up so that there are no issues when they all come back online.


I hope they do. And threads like this bring it to DISH's attention that there is an issue with the way the nightly reboot is implemented.

I would believe that having Joeys in the picture might complicate things but the thing is my Joey almost never reboots at the same time as the Hopper it's linked to. If it's such an issue then the linked Hopper/Joey pair should synchronize their update times if they're ever different.


If it were up to me Hopper and Joey would never reboot at the same times. With the network down during the Hopper reboot the Joey's reboot would not finish until the Hopper was back up and running.
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#60 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:50 PM

Well -- By "synchronize" I mean have the Joey reboot within 30 minutes or so after the scheduled Hopper reboot.


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#61 OFFLINE   some guy

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 11:24 AM

The stb does look for updates every few hours, that is true. The EPG tables are rebuilt during the nightly update but the EPG fills in throughout the day.



#62 OFFLINE   locutus

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 12:17 PM

well, I've taken care of my biggest problem. Even though others here aren't bothered by the pop-up message while they're watching a program, I am. I find it extremely annoying in the middle of a good show, and it never happens at a good time. So, I figured that I might as well find the work-around (after more than 30 years of dealing with such animals I know that there is always a work-around if you look for it). Prior to watching anything that I have recorded, I set up another program to record that will last longer than the one I'm watching. At least that way the DVR will leave me alone during my movie. After I'm done I delete the other recording.

 

I understand that a DVR has no way of knowing whether or not someone is watching a live show. It would still be nice, though, if the Hopper would treat playback activity the same as it treats recording activity. I think it's safe to assume that if someone is playing back a recording that they are actually sitting there watching it.

This should be a fairly simple fix. (playback bit = on then reschedule update)



#63 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 10:18 PM

I understand that a DVR has no way of knowing whether or not someone is watching a live show. It would still be nice, though, if the Hopper would treat playback activity the same as it treats recording activity. I think it's safe to assume that if someone is playing back a recording that they are actually sitting there watching it.


Normally I would agree with you... but I have lost count the number of times my father has fallen asleep during playback of a movie late at night... and he definitely wasn't watching TV even though he had intended to be watching when he first began the DVR playback.


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#64 OFFLINE   Daggett

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 10:48 PM

It bugs me too, someone is always up at that time. I use a workaround of recording an SD channel from 1:30 AM to 4:30 AM every day with a repeating manual timer, at least then it won't ask until 4:30 or 5:30. It ties up a tuner, but I'm not recording much at that time anyway, and I can easily skip it if need be.

 

 

Really IMHO it's just a sign of poor design. There really should be no need to do this every night if it were designed correctly.



#65 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 09:20 PM

It bugs me too, someone is always up at that time. I use a workaround of recording an SD channel from 1:30 AM to 4:30 AM every day with a repeating manual timer, at least then it won't ask until 4:30 or 5:30. It ties up a tuner, but I'm not recording much at that time anyway, and I can easily skip it if need be.


Really IMHO it's just a sign of poor design. There really should be no need to do this every night if it were designed correctly.


I do the same thing and this works perfectly. Every night before I shut the TV off I put my Hopper in sleep mode.

#66 OFFLINE   FarmerBob

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 01:58 AM

Mine fired off at least four times last night. The first time I allowed it to do its thing, whatever that may be. It started at 1:23am and the last, fourth time, that I saw was at 4:38am. The three other times it did nothing. The standby screen stayed on for as long as I let it. I gave each time about 10 minutes. Could this be possession?



#67 ONLINE   P Smith

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:32 AM

are you soliciting for  a priest ? :)


Edited by P Smith, 05 February 2014 - 10:32 AM.


#68 OFFLINE   krestakaye

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 01:00 PM

I understand it can be frustrating when you’re up late watching a show and the updates start. A request has been filed on your behalf to have this feature added with extended update times. All requests are considered and reviewed for approval.

Thanks



#69 OFFLINE   krestakaye

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 01:02 PM

I'd like this issue to be revisited and requested again. I searched the topic because I have the same problem. If I could choose the update to happen a couple hours later it would be great.

#70 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:37 PM

I have a recording set for that timeframe and my receiver stays on.


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#71 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 10:45 PM

Now I receive an option to accept or decline the update option.



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#72 OFFLINE   locutus

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:44 PM

Normally I would agree with you... but I have lost count the number of times my father has fallen asleep during playback of a movie late at night... and he definitely wasn't watching TV even though he had intended to be watching when he first began the DVR playback.

 

So what? Would it hurt for his DVR to wait until playback is over before it reset? At most it's a couple of hours. 

I find it rather curious that a couple of weeks after I posted my work-around, I received a message one morning that my Hopper had received a "software update". After that point my work-around stopped working. Even when I set a program to record, the Hopper still displays the update message and then switches to the screen-saver. It doesn't actually do an update. It continues to record. Just the display is reset, apparently in response to those of us who want to watch our program uninterrupted late at night. I tried a different ways to create a new work-around, but nothing simple, and quite frankly this issue is no longer worth the time I've spent on it. Apparently whatever you guys need to do at 1:30 is much more important than customer satisfaction. So I've decided to implement a much more severe work around. After five years of being  a loyal Dish customer, I'm switching to DirecTV. Screw you guys.






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