Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

I'm back, need some more help


  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:38 AM

So I am having a company come out and mount the plasma on a brick wall.  Have to install a power source too, run wires behind wall etc.  He stated that they would be using one 30-35 foot HDMI from the tv to a 3x1 switch over to where the bookshelf holds everything.  Then use "jumper" HDMI cables 3-5 feet long from the switch to each component.

Anything I should be worried about? Are the HDMI sitches a good thing?

He also said that the ARC on most setups he has dealt with is a pain and only works some of the time.  He suggested just using the digital optical on the tv to the sound bar I am buying because it would be more stable.  Does that sound legitimate?

I've read reviews about Panasonic plasmas that they do not allow you to turn off the internal speakers just allow them to be turned down?  Will this present an issue with turning the volume up and down via a sound bar?

I picked the JBL SB400 because of the 4 HDMI ports.  Now it doesn't appear that I will even use those.  Would the Kllipsch be a better choice now?

 

 

http://www.amazon.co...d=I6069UGQULW07

http://www.amazon.co...d=IZPU4S2UUGG71



...Ads Help To Support This Site...

#2 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:34 PM

Anybody know about this or have an opinion that can help me?

#3 ONLINE   jimmie57

jimmie57

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,299 posts
  • LocationTexas City, TX
Joined: Jun 26, 2010

Posted 22 July 2013 - 02:16 PM

Specs on this one are way better.

http://www.amazon.co...g=5336432741-20


DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM, HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#4 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 22 July 2013 - 02:22 PM

Specs on this one are way better.
http://www.amazon.co...g=5336432741-20


Jimmy I thank you once again. you are usually the only one who replies to me.

So what are the specs you were looking at is it just total watts or what?

#5 ONLINE   jimmie57

jimmie57

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,299 posts
  • LocationTexas City, TX
Joined: Jun 26, 2010

Posted 22 July 2013 - 02:32 PM

The sub for one. It goes down to 28  and the other one only goes to 38. The lower the number the lower the bass you will get from it.

The size is important also. I have an 8" and 2, 10" subs. The 10" has 25% more surface area than the 8". The surface area is where you get the lower notes and the volume. I can't hardly tell if my 8" sub is working or not when I do all that I can to adjust it. Not so with the 10" subs.

The 8" sub is now disconnected and in the closet now.


DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM, HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#6 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 22,326 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 22 July 2013 - 02:53 PM

So I am having a company come out and mount the plasma on a brick wall.  Have to install a power source too, run wires behind wall etc.  He stated that they would be using one 30-35 foot HDMI from the tv to a 3x1 switch over to where the bookshelf holds everything.  Then use "jumper" HDMI cables 3-5 feet long from the switch to each component.

Anything I should be worried about? Are the HDMI sitches a good thing?

He also said that the ARC on most setups he has dealt with is a pain and only works some of the time.  He suggested just using the digital optical on the tv to the sound bar I am buying because it would be more stable.  Does that sound legitimate?

I've read reviews about Panasonic plasmas that they do not allow you to turn off the internal speakers just allow them to be turned down?  Will this present an issue with turning the volume up and down via a sound bar?

I picked the JBL SB400 because of the 4 HDMI ports.  Now it doesn't appear that I will even use those.  Would the Kllipsch be a better choice now?

 

 

http://www.amazon.co...d=I6069UGQULW07

http://www.amazon.co...d=IZPU4S2UUGG71

 

I've got 8 Panny plasmas and they all allow the speakers to be shut off.  

 

Rich



#7 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 22 July 2013 - 02:55 PM

I've got 8 Panny plasmas and they all allow the speakers to be shut off.

Rich


Okay well that's good to know. I found it hard to believe you couldn't do that because my six-year-old Hitachi allows you to turn them off. I guess it was some idiot poster on Amazon who had no idea how to do it so he just assumed it cannot be done.

I am getting the VT 60 by the way.

#8 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 22 July 2013 - 02:59 PM

The sub for one. It goes down to 28 and the other one only goes to 38. The lower the number the lower the bass you will get from it.
The size is important also. I have an 8" and 2, 10" subs. The 10" has 25% more surface area than the 8". The surface area is where you get the lower notes and the volume. I can't hardly tell if my 8" sub is working or not when I do all that I can to adjust it. Not so with the 10" subs.
The 8" sub is now disconnected and in the closet now.


Okay interesting that's one thing I was worried about. I used to have a JBL 10 inch hooked up when I had a receiver and surround speakers. Absolutely loved that thing. that's one concern I had going down to an 8 inch after having the 10 inch for about 10 years.

#9 ONLINE   jimmie57

jimmie57

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,299 posts
  • LocationTexas City, TX
Joined: Jun 26, 2010

Posted 22 July 2013 - 03:40 PM

The review for this one is very good. Read the review of the guy that tried and returned several until he bought this one.


DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM, HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#10 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:12 PM

The review for this one is very good. Read the review of the guy that tried and returned several until he bought this one.


Which one?

#11 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 22 July 2013 - 05:35 PM

The review for this one is very good. Read the review of the guy that tried and returned several until he bought this one.


The JBL or the klipsch?

#12 ONLINE   jimmie57

jimmie57

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,299 posts
  • LocationTexas City, TX
Joined: Jun 26, 2010

Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:28 PM

The JBL or the klipsch?

 klipsch

 

I just noticed that this one only had the red and white and the optical connection. Your TV has optical digital output.

 

This was in your original post " He suggested just using the digital optical on the tv to the sound bar I am buying because it would be more stable.  Does that sound legitimate? "

 

 

I like the optical digital output. I run one from my DTV receiver directly to the connection on my Yamaha.


Edited by jimmie57, 22 July 2013 - 09:47 PM.

DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM, HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#13 OFFLINE   kikkenit2

kikkenit2

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 679 posts
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:46 PM

Ron, you bought the correct tv, but you are doing this home theater build all wrong.

I love this site for satellite service, but these questions should be posted at avsforum.com.

 

By avoiding routing your audio and video thru an audio/video receiver you are downgrading

the quality of both. Sending digital optical audio from the tv to the soundbar is not near as

good as connecting all your input devices to the receiver and then connecting the toslink audio

directly to the soundbar and hdmi video directly to the tv. Don't route your audio through the

tv if possible.

 

And don't mount that 60" tv all the way up to the ceiling. Tilted or not, way too high. And the

soundbar goes underneath that correct? You are slowly cooking all that fine equipment you

just bought. Hope it doesn't get cold there much mounting above a stove room heater.

 

There are mounts where you can telescope the tv away from the wall a foot or two. Still too hot.



#14 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 23 July 2013 - 07:04 AM

Ron, you bought the correct tv, but you are doing this home theater build all wrong.
I love this site for satellite service, but these questions should be posted at avsforum.com.

By avoiding routing your audio and video thru an audio/video receiver you are downgrading
the quality of both. Sending digital optical audio from the tv to the soundbar is not near as
good as connecting all your input devices to the receiver and then connecting the toslink audio
directly to the soundbar and hdmi video directly to the tv. Don't route your audio through the
tv if possible.

And don't mount that 60" tv all the way up to the ceiling. Tilted or not, way too high. And the
soundbar goes underneath that correct? You are slowly cooking all that fine equipment you
just bought. Hope it doesn't get cold there much mounting above a stove room heater.

There are mounts where you can telescope the tv away from the wall a foot or two. Still too hot.


Yes I hear you thanks for your opinion and thank you for posting. I've been through this mounting dilemma before I already had a thread on it. That is the only place this TV can go in this new house with the furniture we have so I've already debated that. This is where it's going to go.

Normally I would have bought a new receiver and a gone that route. However because this TV is not going on a stand and is not up against the wall I need it to look clean. I do not want to have to be drilling through walls and floors just to put speakers up plus there's no good positioning for rear speakers anyways. This house has all hardwood floors and there is a bedroom right above the family room so I don't think it would be a good idea to have a really powerful system anyways. I am more or less looking for something that is better than the TV speakers with a little extra added bass. That is why I chose the sound bar option. Now that I've made that decision I just want to get the best one that is out there that is reasonably priced. I have seen ones upwards of $2000 And that is ridiculous for a sound bar.

You are the second person who has mentioned a sound bar and a receiver, could you explain that? I thought sound bars did not require receivers everything was built into them? I mean depending on the cost, could you provide me with a link to the set up you are talking about? It does interest me.
 


Edited by ron mexico75, 23 July 2013 - 07:04 AM.


#15 ONLINE   jimmie57

jimmie57

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,299 posts
  • LocationTexas City, TX
Joined: Jun 26, 2010

Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:33 AM

Ron,

lots of the older TVs did not output Digital Audio. Yours does. Look on page 27 of this manual for your TV.

From the Manual, " DIGITAL AUDIO OUT     PCM / Dolby Digital, Fiber Optic"

 

http://service.us.pa...F/TCP55VT60.PDF

 

If you are going to use a soudbar I would go thru the TV first.


DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM, HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#16 ONLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Never say 'never'.

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,296 posts
  • LocationWinters, CA, between Napa and Sacramento
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:37 AM

 

By avoiding routing your audio and video thru an audio/video receiver you are downgrading

the quality of both. Sending digital optical audio from the tv to the soundbar is not near as

good as connecting all your input devices to the receiver and then connecting the toslink audio

directly to the soundbar and hdmi video directly to the tv. Don't route your audio through the

tv if possible.

 

Could you kindly explain why this is so? I don't have a soundbar, but I do not run my DIRECTV's (HR44) HDMI through my AVR, and I do link audio to the Denon via optical from the TV. My speaker set up is at this moment 2.0! We've just moved, and haven't the right stuff to put in a center channel or woofer for now. 


"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#17 ONLINE   jimmie57

jimmie57

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,299 posts
  • LocationTexas City, TX
Joined: Jun 26, 2010

Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:48 AM

Could you kindly explain why this is so? I don't have a soundbar, but I do not run my DIRECTV's (HR44) HDMI through my AVR, and I do link audio to the Denon via optical from the TV. My speaker set up is at this moment 2.0! We've just moved, and haven't the right stuff to put in a center channel or woofer for now. 

Check your TV manual and see if it Outputs Dolby Digital. If it does I doubt if there is any difference.

 

With the HR44 you could just run this direct from it to the AVR and try it to see if there is a difference.

There is a possible drawback to going to the AVR from the HR44 and that is Lipsynch. If it sounds better you need to look at the AVR manual of how to correct it.


DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM, HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#18 OFFLINE   kikkenit2

kikkenit2

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 679 posts
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:19 AM

The tv manual says it will pass digital audio through the tv,

but it doesn't say what happens to that audio as it passes

through the tv. They have been downmixing 5.1 all along

and it still a problem.

 

At least Home Theater magazine says so. The recent version

that tested several soundbars found a huge degrade in sound

quality when passing the audio through even the newest tv's.

It is discussed on page 3 by the editor.

 

The new TV's are getting better, but it is still a problem. Only

in depth reviews define the actual signal coming out of the tv.

The manual doesn't admit that they are downmixing the audio.

 

Most new receivers don't have toslink out so bypassing the tv

is complicated wiring. An older cheap receiver that has hdmi and

digital audio out would work best. Connect all sources to receiver

and run hdmi and toslink cables together out to tv/soundbar location.



#19 ONLINE   jimmie57

jimmie57

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,299 posts
  • LocationTexas City, TX
Joined: Jun 26, 2010

Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:58 AM

This is from my TV ( Samsung ) manual.

 

 

Connecting a Digital Audio System

The rear panel jacks on your TV make it easy to connect a Digital Audio System (Home theater/Receiver) to your TV.

 

1. Connect an Optical Cable between the "DIGITAL AUDIO OUT (OPTICAL)" jacks on the TV and the Digital Audio Input jacks on the Digital Audio System.

 

When a Digital Audio System is connected to the "DIGITAL AUDIO OUT (OPTICAL)" jack: Decrease the volume of the TV and adjust the volume level with the system’s volume control.

TV Rear PanelDigital Audio SystemOptical Cable (Not supplied)

5.1CH audio is possible when the TV is connected to an external device supporting 5.1CH.


DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM, HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#20 OFFLINE   kikkenit2

kikkenit2

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 679 posts
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:20 AM

Here it is. From a review of the ST60 by Home Theater magazine May 24, 2013

 

"If you expect to connect a soundbar and have the TV perform switching among HDMI sources such as a cable box and Blu-ray player, be advised that the ST’s optical digital audio output you’ll use to feed the soundbar downconverts all multichannel Dolby Digital and DTS bitstreams to PCM stereo, which will bypass any DD or DTS decoder built into the soundbar and result in less-than-best sound quality. This practice is unfortunately common to most HDTVs today."

 

http://www.hometheat...-3d-plasma-hdtv

 

Just found several reviews of the VT60. Fantastic picture and speakers sound better than most.

So far not one tested the digital audio out. HT reviewed the VT50 but didn't test the audio out.

For those that use a soundbar that Samsung may be a better deal. And the VT60 might not

be downmixing, but it very likely is and most brands/models still are degrading digital audio as

it passes through the tv.



#21 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:31 AM

Here it is. From a review of the ST60 by Home Theater magazine May 24, 2013

"If you expect to connect a soundbar and have the TV perform switching among HDMI sources such as a cable box and Blu-ray player, be advised that the ST’s optical digital audio output you’ll use to feed the soundbar downconverts all multichannel Dolby Digital and DTS bitstreams to PCM stereo, which will bypass any DD or DTS decoder built into the soundbar and result in less-than-best sound quality. This practice is unfortunately common to most HDTVs today."

http://www.hometheat...-3d-plasma-hdtv

Just found several reviews of the VT60. Fantastic picture and speakers sound better than most.
So far not one tested the digital audio out. HT reviewed the VT50 but didn't test the audio out.
For those that use a soundbar that Samsung may be a better deal. And the VT60 might not
be downmixing, but it very likely is and most brands/models still are degrading digital audio as
it passes through the tv.


Very interesting great information! Thank you for posting that. I wish I had the set up to just add a true 5.1 speaker system and a receiver but I really do not. That is the reasoning with going with a sound bar.

I am now back at looking at the original sound bar I was going to get the Polk audio 9000 IHT.

http://amzn.com/B00AQY57AI


It says it can decode and reproduce Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1. It also says many sound bars can decode 5.1 but only reproduce it as two channel stereo. This Polk audio plays back all discrete channels as intended.

Having read the post above about the optical output on the Panasonic's, now I'm wondering if this Polk audio would be a waste of money and I should just stick with that JBL SB 400.

http://amzn.com/B00AWTW480




#22 OFFLINE   kikkenit2

kikkenit2

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 679 posts
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Posted 23 July 2013 - 01:58 PM

Ron, not sure why you are changing soundbars at this point.

Let's assume you have a good soundbar/subwoofer set.

 

Instead of an amplified receiver this should work.

 

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

 

Just connect all your hdmi inputs to this switch and strip the 5.1 audio from the video.

Connect the 35' hdmi and 35' toslink audio cable to the outputs and run both to the fireplace.

Connect the video to the plasma and the toslink audio to the soundbar. The soundbar will

decode the audio channels properly and amplify the sound. Nothing wasted in the soundbar.

 

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

 

Here is the 35' digital audio cable. Less than $10. They have 40' or 50' also.

 

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

 

35' hdmi almost $30. A few small zip ties and you're done.

Bypass the tv audio for high quality/piece of mind.

Now let's find you the right soundbar. How much $$$ you got left?



#23 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:24 PM

Ron, not sure why you are changing soundbars at this point.
Let's assume you have a good soundbar/subwoofer set.

Instead of an amplified receiver this should work.

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

Just connect all your hdmi inputs to this switch and strip the 5.1 audio from the video.
Connect the 35' hdmi and 35' toslink audio cable to the outputs and run both to the fireplace.
Connect the video to the plasma and the toslink audio to the soundbar. The soundbar will
decode the audio channels properly and amplify the sound. Nothing wasted in the soundbar.

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

Here is the 35' digital audio cable. Less than $10. They have 40' or 50' also.

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

35' hdmi almost $30. A few small zip ties and you're done.
Bypass the tv audio for high quality/piece of mind.
Now let's find you the right soundbar. How much $$$ you got left?


You are "DA MAN" kikkenit2!!!

Makes total sense and a very clear explanation. I had no idea something like that even existed. I emailed the installer with what you said and a link to that switcher with optical out to see what he says.

Man you have been a HUGE help. Not only with recommending that switcher with optical to overcome the downgrade on sound that would occur passing through the tv. But, also backing it up with those articles. You're right, I doubt the VT60 passes 5.1 if the ST60 doesn't.

Now like you said, how much more money do I have to spend? Well I like the $549 price on that JBL SB400 but.....................I'd be willing to spend $250 more for that Polk 9000 IHT if its worth it.

I'm thinking it might be unless you or someone else can convince me otherwise. The reason I say it might be worth it is because I definitely want a sound bar I do not want to do separate speakers and receiver. More importantly, the specs on Polk audio's website as well as Amazon state that it does reproduce 5.1 rather than downgrading it to 2.1. If I am going through "all the trouble" to get that special switcher, don't you think I should buy a sound bar that actually reproduces the 5.1 rather than 2.1?

#24 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 24 July 2013 - 07:05 AM

Also, how reliable are those switches with the optical out?  Been reading some reviews and they seemed to be mixed with it working some of the time or just dying within a few days out of the box.



#25 ONLINE   jimmie57

jimmie57

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,299 posts
  • LocationTexas City, TX
Joined: Jun 26, 2010

Posted 24 July 2013 - 08:40 AM

Am I confused ?

I thought the whole idea behind the soundbar was to Avoid running cables.

Now you are adding cables and switches, etc.

??????????


DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM, HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD





Protected By... spam firewall...And...