Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

I'm back, need some more help


  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 124 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:31 AM

Here it is. From a review of the ST60 by Home Theater magazine May 24, 2013

"If you expect to connect a soundbar and have the TV perform switching among HDMI sources such as a cable box and Blu-ray player, be advised that the ST’s optical digital audio output you’ll use to feed the soundbar downconverts all multichannel Dolby Digital and DTS bitstreams to PCM stereo, which will bypass any DD or DTS decoder built into the soundbar and result in less-than-best sound quality. This practice is unfortunately common to most HDTVs today."

http://www.hometheat...-3d-plasma-hdtv

Just found several reviews of the VT60. Fantastic picture and speakers sound better than most.
So far not one tested the digital audio out. HT reviewed the VT50 but didn't test the audio out.
For those that use a soundbar that Samsung may be a better deal. And the VT60 might not
be downmixing, but it very likely is and most brands/models still are degrading digital audio as
it passes through the tv.


Very interesting great information! Thank you for posting that. I wish I had the set up to just add a true 5.1 speaker system and a receiver but I really do not. That is the reasoning with going with a sound bar.

I am now back at looking at the original sound bar I was going to get the Polk audio 9000 IHT.

http://amzn.com/B00AQY57AI


It says it can decode and reproduce Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1. It also says many sound bars can decode 5.1 but only reproduce it as two channel stereo. This Polk audio plays back all discrete channels as intended.

Having read the post above about the optical output on the Panasonic's, now I'm wondering if this Polk audio would be a waste of money and I should just stick with that JBL SB 400.

http://amzn.com/B00AWTW480




...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#22 OFFLINE   kikkenit2

kikkenit2

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 665 posts
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Posted 23 July 2013 - 01:58 PM

Ron, not sure why you are changing soundbars at this point.

Let's assume you have a good soundbar/subwoofer set.

 

Instead of an amplified receiver this should work.

 

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

 

Just connect all your hdmi inputs to this switch and strip the 5.1 audio from the video.

Connect the 35' hdmi and 35' toslink audio cable to the outputs and run both to the fireplace.

Connect the video to the plasma and the toslink audio to the soundbar. The soundbar will

decode the audio channels properly and amplify the sound. Nothing wasted in the soundbar.

 

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

 

Here is the 35' digital audio cable. Less than $10. They have 40' or 50' also.

 

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

 

35' hdmi almost $30. A few small zip ties and you're done.

Bypass the tv audio for high quality/piece of mind.

Now let's find you the right soundbar. How much $$$ you got left?



#23 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 124 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:24 PM

Ron, not sure why you are changing soundbars at this point.
Let's assume you have a good soundbar/subwoofer set.

Instead of an amplified receiver this should work.

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

Just connect all your hdmi inputs to this switch and strip the 5.1 audio from the video.
Connect the 35' hdmi and 35' toslink audio cable to the outputs and run both to the fireplace.
Connect the video to the plasma and the toslink audio to the soundbar. The soundbar will
decode the audio channels properly and amplify the sound. Nothing wasted in the soundbar.

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

Here is the 35' digital audio cable. Less than $10. They have 40' or 50' also.

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

35' hdmi almost $30. A few small zip ties and you're done.
Bypass the tv audio for high quality/piece of mind.
Now let's find you the right soundbar. How much $$$ you got left?


You are "DA MAN" kikkenit2!!!

Makes total sense and a very clear explanation. I had no idea something like that even existed. I emailed the installer with what you said and a link to that switcher with optical out to see what he says.

Man you have been a HUGE help. Not only with recommending that switcher with optical to overcome the downgrade on sound that would occur passing through the tv. But, also backing it up with those articles. You're right, I doubt the VT60 passes 5.1 if the ST60 doesn't.

Now like you said, how much more money do I have to spend? Well I like the $549 price on that JBL SB400 but.....................I'd be willing to spend $250 more for that Polk 9000 IHT if its worth it.

I'm thinking it might be unless you or someone else can convince me otherwise. The reason I say it might be worth it is because I definitely want a sound bar I do not want to do separate speakers and receiver. More importantly, the specs on Polk audio's website as well as Amazon state that it does reproduce 5.1 rather than downgrading it to 2.1. If I am going through "all the trouble" to get that special switcher, don't you think I should buy a sound bar that actually reproduces the 5.1 rather than 2.1?

#24 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 124 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 24 July 2013 - 07:05 AM

Also, how reliable are those switches with the optical out?  Been reading some reviews and they seemed to be mixed with it working some of the time or just dying within a few days out of the box.



#25 OFFLINE   jimmie57

jimmie57

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,483 posts
  • LocationTexas City, TX
Joined: Jun 26, 2010

Posted 24 July 2013 - 08:40 AM

Am I confused ?

I thought the whole idea behind the soundbar was to Avoid running cables.

Now you are adding cables and switches, etc.

??????????


DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM,   HR24-100 HDMI to 32" Sharp LED,
HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#26 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 124 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 24 July 2013 - 10:30 AM

Am I confused ?
I thought the whole idea behind the soundbar was to Avoid running cables.
Now you are adding cables and switches, etc.
??????????

Yes it was to prevent running speaker wire to a center speaker tower speakers and surround sound speakers as well as a pretty big price tag for a good receiver.

Having the HDMI switch would just entail running one HDMI cord to the TV. All the other HDMI cables would be "jumper cables "probably no more than 3 feet and would all run behind the bookcase on the same set of shelves. The only other table would be an optical digital cable going from the switcher into the back of the sound bar that could be run right along with the single HDMI cord going to the TV.

I do not want tower speakers on each side of my fireplace a huge center channel speaker on the mantle plus rear surroundsound speakers and then having to run and conceal wires to all of those.

This HDMI switch would go on the shelves with the Blu-ray Apple TV and DirecTV receiver. The only cables that would need to be run are the single HDMI and the single digital optical which I think can be concealed very easily.

I just want the best set up without any downgrade in sound that's why I was inquiring about using a switcher with an optical out cable Rather than running the sound out of the TV into the sound bar. From my understanding most TVs do not reproduce very good audio If using the digital optical out.

Edited by ron mexico75, 24 July 2013 - 10:31 AM.


#27 OFFLINE   jimmie57

jimmie57

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,483 posts
  • LocationTexas City, TX
Joined: Jun 26, 2010

Posted 24 July 2013 - 10:39 AM

Go to a store that is close by that sells them, like a Best Buy, and see what some sound like.

You can't tell by reading about them and what others think.


DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM,   HR24-100 HDMI to 32" Sharp LED,
HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#28 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 124 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 24 July 2013 - 10:47 AM

Go to a store that is close by that sells them, like a Best Buy, and see what some sound like.

You can't tell by reading about them and what others think.

I wish I could but Best But only has the lower mid level ones or the extreme high level $2000 speaker bars.  Im looking fior the upper mid level.  Like the JBL SB400 or the Polk 9000IHT. NOBODY has these.  Its always, samsung, bose or low mid level Klipsch.



#29 OFFLINE   jimmie57

jimmie57

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,483 posts
  • LocationTexas City, TX
Joined: Jun 26, 2010

Posted 24 July 2013 - 11:32 AM

I am close to Houston,TX.

They have the SB-1 bar in most of the stores in the Houston area.

http://www.bestbuy.c...3&skuId=6263926

 

There is a button on the web page that you can check the Store Availability.

 

They also have this Polk one in the stores.

http://www.bestbuy.c...8&skuId=8418042


Edited by jimmie57, 24 July 2013 - 11:35 AM.

DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM,   HR24-100 HDMI to 32" Sharp LED,
HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#30 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 124 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 24 July 2013 - 11:37 AM

thanks for your help Jimmy



#31 OFFLINE   kikkenit2

kikkenit2

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 665 posts
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Posted 24 July 2013 - 05:58 PM

The top rated 5.1 soundbars go for $2k and up.

 

Even though you can't find it in stores (bummer)

the Polk 9000 is probably the best choice if you are

willing to spend $800.

 

http://www.amazon.co...0/dp/B00AQY57AI

It was reviewed very well by audioholics. They do better reviews than most.

 

http://www.audioholi...00-5000-iht-pre

And the home theater website review looks good too.

 

http://www.hometheat...t-labs-measures

If that is too expensive that Klipsch 3.1 soundbar for $650 looks second best.

 

http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B0092QGSHM

Otherwise for less money the other models you discussed are the best choice. 


Edited by kikkenit2, 24 July 2013 - 06:24 PM.


#32 OFFLINE   ron mexico75

ron mexico75

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 124 posts
Joined: Jan 07, 2012

Posted 24 July 2013 - 07:36 PM

The top rated 5.1 soundbars go for $2k and up.

Even though you can't find it in stores (bummer)
the Polk 9000 is probably the best choice if you are
willing to spend $800.

http://www.amazon.co...0/dp/B00AQY57AI
It was reviewed very well by audioholics. They do better reviews than most.

http://www.audioholi...00-5000-iht-pre
And the home theater website review looks good too.

http://www.hometheat...t-labs-measures
If that is too expensive that Klipsch 3.1 soundbar for $650 looks second best.

http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B0092QGSHM
Otherwise for less money the other models you discussed are the best choice.

Oh yeah I know. I was looking at a definitive technology which was $2000. Ha! Yeah right, I would NEVER spend that on a sound bar.

So you think the Polk huh? The one thing that intrigues me is the fact it actually does 5.1. Now I would assume that in order to get the most out of that, I need to go from an HDMI switch with optical out rather than using the optical out in the tv right?

Edited by ron mexico75, 24 July 2013 - 07:37 PM.


#33 OFFLINE   kikkenit2

kikkenit2

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 665 posts
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Posted 25 July 2013 - 03:06 PM

I can't find any confirmation on that model. I just searched for reviews on models  

ZT65, ZT60 & the VT60. None of them even try to connect a soundbar. The only

info we have to go on is the review of the ST60 by Home Theater.

 

The built-in audio of the ZT60 & VT60 is 2.1 stereo. Not a good sign.

That means they are downmixing 5.1 to 2.1 for the onboard speakers.

So they just send that same downmix to the audio out. Until recently 

there were no 5.1 soundbars and no big demand for 5.1 out.

 

When researching TV's I never even cared about onboard sound.

I send audio to my tv through hdmi, but I don't use. A receiver with

a basic 5 bookshelf speaker with 1 subwoofer setup sounds so much

better. Most tv reviews pretty much reflect this. It is 99% about the

picture. That is where Panny plasmas excel.

 

When researching soundbars I came across a decent Sonos for $700

from Amazon. Then I realized the wireless subwoofer was $700 also.

Wrong budget. When I scrolled down to the reviews, the very first one

had a huge rant about this very thing. Most new TV's are downmixing

the output. This quote is from the text in the first review. And the link

is where I copied it from. I'm not the only person that knows about this.

 

"Here's the issue though: Sonos says they want you to use your TV as a hub, all the inputs going to the TV and then optical audio out from the TV to the Playbar. Great idea - but the problem is that most TV's won't pass Dolby Digital (DD) 5.1 surround from HDMI to the digital/optical audio. If it's from the TV itself (such as Netflix on a smart TV) or input directly from the coaxial cable it will pass 5.1 through the optical port BUT not from HDMI. This is either required to be HDCP compliant or is a licensing/cost issue (not sure). There are a few tv's that do this but they're few and far between and hard to verify.

So if you have multiple sources (say an Xbox 360, Blu-Ray player, Apple TV, etc) there's no way for those sources to ever deliver 5.1 to the Playbar as Sonos intended (assuming you add a sub and some Play:3's to the mix). And you can't wire multiple inputs directly to the Playbar because they have a single input for the sake of simplicity. Normally I'm fine with this, but in light of the limitation with HDMI => optical pass through on TVs this became an oversight to me upon learning about the pass through issue. You can solve this by finding a TV or receiver that does pass through DD 5.1 through the optical audio, but you shouldn't have to. Alternatively you can use an optical audio switch, which is fine most of the time but may not work with a blu-ray player since Playbar lacks DTS support and are also limited on inputs, but this doesn't solve what to do for certain devices that don't have an optical audio port (e.g. most computers, Wii U, etc).

In the end you're left with a system that is capable of producing much better sound (especially if a sub and some Play:3s are added) that most everyone won't be able to hear and results in this not sounding as good as it costs. And that's just a shame to me."  Quoted from William B. Partridge  March 8, 2013
 

 

http://www.amazon.co...=sonos soundbar


Edited by kikkenit2, 25 July 2013 - 03:07 PM.





Protected By... spam firewall...And...