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Raycom stations may drop from Dish at midnight (and now back on Dish again)


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114 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 02:51 PM

^^  If you can record and skip with OTA, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to with cable or satellite.

 

I don't believe Dish or anyone else really makes any profit on locals.  There is a great deal of expense involved and I'm not sure the $5 or so covers it.

 

It's more of a convenience for viewers in outlying areas that can't get a good signal or those who choose not to have an outside antenna.  As noted above, those are viewers the locals wouldn't otherwise have.  And that's why I still say the locals should be paying to be carried instead of getting paid.


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#27 OFFLINE   Curtis0620

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 02:53 PM

Then why should any station with commercials get paid to be on cable or satellite? 


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#28 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 02:56 PM

OTA stations should not.  Closed distribution networks don't have FCC licenses or any revenue stream outside cable and satellite (and now some web streaming outlets).


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#29 OFFLINE   Curtis0620

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 02:58 PM

OTA stations should not.  Closed distribution networks don't have FCC licenses or any revenue stream outside cable and satellite (and now some web streaming outlets).

They don't have advertisers?  Just like OTA networks?  And what if the big 4 networks discontinue OTA broadcasts?


Edited by Curtis0620, 01 August 2013 - 02:59 PM.

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#30 OFFLINE   Curtis0620

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 03:03 PM

Why should cable get NBC for free but have to pay for MSNBC?


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#31 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 03:13 PM

Why should cable get NBC for free but have to pay for MSNBC?

Because nbc is free to anyone with an antenna and they where given the right to broadcast and the bandwidth to do it with the expectations and agreement that in exchange for the billions of dollars they'd have to had to paid for the bandwidth and such they'd simply supply the programing for free. Now they are charging companies who want to make it easy for the customer to not have to change inputs on their tvs. That's not acceptable. Period.

No such agreement was ever made for msnbc and they where never given billions of dollars with of bandwidth for free by you and me, taxpayers, represented by the government.

We paid for the channels already when we gave them the bandwidth for over the air channels. That didn't happen when they started a cable channel. They paid for everything to build that.

Add in the fact that over the air networks get billions more money in ad fees than cable channels do in general.

That's why.

#32 OFFLINE   Curtis0620

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 03:16 PM

Ok, NBC will forfeit the bandwidth and be a cable channel. 


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#33 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 03:26 PM

Ok, NBC will forfeit the bandwidth and be a cable channel. 

And how many millions of viewers will they lose that don't have cable or satellite?


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#34 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:02 PM

OTA broadcasts are free to the consumer... put up an antenna and enjoy them for free.

 

IF you want them any other way (like via satellite) then you might have to pay... and if Dish charges you to get them via satellite, then the OTA station has a right to get some of that money too.

 

I keep repeating this... years ago, in my DMA...  the local channels banded together and said that if cable companies would give their signals for free then they would grant them retransmission rights for free... BUT if they wanted to charge, then they needed to pay.

 

We can agree or not over whether any particular case is greed vs business or whatever... but conceptually, the notion of OTA being free is not even arguable.  OTA is free as long as you get it via OTA.  Nobody has a right to OTA... you just are allowed to get it free via OTA... but if you can't get it because you are too far out or obstructions are in the way or whatever... then nobody owes you those OTA signals via some other way.

 

I sympathize with people losing their locals...  I have lost locals before too...   but my stance/opinion is the same now as it was then.


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#35 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:00 PM

In the case of one of the two Cleveland Raycom stations satellite helps get their signal out to areas that otherwise could not receive their OTA signal. None of the other Cleveland OTA's suffer from the poor coverage, only "CBS 19 WOIO" whose RF channel is 10.  There is a ch 10 across Lake Erie in London, Ontario (110 miles north with 60 miles of lake, i.e. no terrain obstruction + water reflection) that virtually wipes out the northeast counties of the DMA, especially in the summer months.   The local cable systems in those counties must also have a hard time getting the signal (unless they make a deal with one of the satellite providers or use terrestrial microwave).  They are operating at lower power until the Canadian issue is rectified (fat chance Canada will budge, they were on ch 10 first).

 

Bottom line they need Dish & Direct to provide coverage to that part of the DMA (or risk losing those counties to Erie PA or Youngstown OH DMA's). 


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#36 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:02 PM

Wow, that "Commentary" by the VP was hilarious mudslinging.

He must have been reading from a script provided by the home office.  If you watch the video on the link I provided, the WOIO message was almost identical.


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#37 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:04 PM

 and if Dish charges you to get them via satellite, then the OTA station has a right to get some of that money too.

Is Dish even really selling them anymore?  They used to charge a $5/mo fee if you wanted locals.  As I understand it now, local are included in all packages in most markets.  So, are they charging for them, or just passing on the retrans fees?  If there were no retrans fees, would they be charging anything?

 

Kind of one of those chicken and egg things.


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#38 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:16 PM

Ok, NBC will forfeit the bandwidth and be a cable channel.


Ha! You are funny! If they did then fine, I wouldn't have an issue with them asking for money for carriage. But that's not the case!

#39 OFFLINE   brucegrr

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:40 PM

Here in the Toledo market we lost two channels, channel 11 and 36.

No big deal right now. Come September? A big deal. With college football, the NFL, and new shows starting up, I hope they come to an agreement.

#40 OFFLINE   Billzebub

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:57 PM

It seems to me that a better solution than banning retransmission fees might be to separate the network from the local channel. Let the Sat and Cable companies make national deals with the network and the local stations can cut their own deal for local shows. We'd see how valuable the local news was then.



#41 OFFLINE   bnewt

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:15 PM

Louisville, Ky lost the NBC station...............& I do care.........because again I am paying for something that I am not receiving.........bet Dish doesn't reduce my monthly bill


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#42 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:16 PM

I've always preferred network feeds.  Locals screw up the schedules too much.  The local Raycom station here runs MyTV on their .2 channel but they share it with CW in the evenings and a bunch of other stuff during other hours.  It ends up being about 50% MyTV and 20% CW.

 

I was never really into C-Band for various reasons, but I've heard lots of stories about the raw network feeds of the big 3 national networks back then.


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#43 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:18 PM

..bet Dish doesn't reduce my monthly bill

What do you want?  3 cents a month?  That's about all it costs them.


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#44 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 09:17 PM

Ok, NBC will forfeit the bandwidth and be a cable channel.


NBC doesn't "own" most of the bandwidth they would forfeit ... their affiliates own most of it. And they are being paid by their affiliates to provide programming to them for OTA broadcast.
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#45 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 09:20 PM

Louisville, Ky lost the NBC station...............& I do care.........because again I am paying for something that I am not receiving.........bet Dish doesn't reduce my monthly bill


They might. In the past they have given a $1 credit per network channel lost in a dispute.
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#46 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 04:36 AM

Part of the argument for retransmission consent is that cable and satellite dilute an OTA station's drawing power.  They simply must compete with more channels on those services than they would if people only had OTA.  There is no question that retransmission fees have become a significant part of the broadcast stations' revenues, and if they were to lose those revenues they would need to be replaced elsewhere.  The replacement would be in the loss of quality programming, since they couldn't raise their prices elsewhere.  Advertisers won't pay more just because the networks aren't getting money from cable and satellite.  In many smaller markets, you might even see stations go belly-up.

 

The digital transition really put the squeeze on a lot of stations' budgets.  A 50kw lo-VHF analog station didn't use nearly the power a 1000kw UHF one does to cover a slightly smaller area.  And thanks to the fact that analog was variable in power usage (white used 0 power, black 100%) the actual electrical usage was lower.  Now, the power usage is pretty constant thanks to digital, and lo-VHF was found to be inadequate for digital coverage for many people.

 

I don't like these disagreements.  I wish they didn't happen.  But getting two people to agree can be hard enough when they have common interests.  Getting two companies to agree when their interests are in opposition is even harder.  My bet is this will resolve in a week or two, and all the terms will be confidential.



#47 OFFLINE   david_jr

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:07 AM

 Advertisers won't pay more just because the networks aren't getting money from cable and satellite.  

 

But the Satellite companies have to?  I understand times are tough.  Why do we have to pay more because they have to compete with cable?  Why do we always hear things like "Broadcast Co. A is seeking a 500 per cent increase" from the cable & sat companies and "we're only asking for what amounts to pennies more per subscriber for our valuable programming that Satellite Co. A is charging their customers extra for" from the broadcasters?  I hate government intervention, but these things are already regulated by the government and a "fair set rate" by FCC for all stations for retransmission might, while costing us a bit more overall, end the constant interuptions.



#48 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:52 AM

They might. In the past they have given a $1 credit per network channel lost in a dispute.

The Raycom sites list an 800# to call to ask for a rebate from Dish.  It's not the main Dish 800#, I wonder who set it up?  I would not want to give my account information to someone who turns out not to be genuine Dish staff.

 

 

WOIO is no longer available on Dish Network but you're still paying for it

CALL DISH NETWORK 800-823-4929

Get a rebate or credit!


Edited by Michael P, 02 August 2013 - 07:58 AM.

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#49 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 03:28 PM

But the Satellite companies have to?  I understand times are tough.  Why do we have to pay more because they have to compete with cable?  

 

You don't have to pay more.  Cut the cord.

 

The FCC set up a system whereby stations could require compensation for the carriage of their signal.  It's called "retransmission consent" and it is a negotiated contract between the station and the multi-channel provider (cable/satellite/whatever) that sets the terms and conditions at whatever the two parties agree to.  There is a second system called "must-carry" where a station can insist that the cable companies carry their channel, but then they get nothing for it except their channel is distributed to more homes.  Each station gets to choose which of these they want.  If broadcasters wanted to increase their market share, they would choose must-carry because that would increase their exposure.  However, these channels are now too popular for anybody not to carry, so the broadcasters can demand compensation for retransmission.

 

Essentially, it is all tied back to copyright.  The copyright holder gets to choose how to distribute their product, under what terms and conditions they will sell it, etc.  Putting the signal out on the public airwaves does not negate the copyright holder's rights.  Simply put, you do not have the right to take someone else's property and distribute it without their permission.

 

However, I believe the fundamental shift is only now beginning.  See paragraph 1 above for what will ultimately end the blackmail.



#50 OFFLINE   fpembleton

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:24 AM

The NBC affiliate in Columbia, SC is affected - as far as I am concerned, they can leave it off. I rarely watch the networks.


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