Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Pre-wired home with cat 5 issue

networking prewire help cat 5

  • Please log in to reply
55 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   peds48

peds48

    🙈🙉🙊📡

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,859 posts
  • LocationNY
Joined: Jan 10, 2008

Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:43 PM

No you need dedicated lines from the router to the patch panel. in order to find which wire goes where, you need to use the "trail and error" method.
Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

...Ads Help To Support This Site...

#27 OFFLINE   rick4464

rick4464

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 11 posts
  • LocationFrederick, MD
Joined: Aug 11, 2013

Posted 12 August 2013 - 09:57 PM

But can the dedicated line connect to any one of the jacks and link all of the other wires wired into the panel or does a dedicated wire have to go into each jack for all of them to work? 



#28 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,289 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 12 August 2013 - 10:50 PM

You are drawing deeper and deeper :) ; it's time to ask some local guy for help, he will bring cable tester with a tone generator ...



#29 OFFLINE   houskamp

houskamp

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 8,636 posts
Joined: Sep 14, 2006

Posted 13 August 2013 - 04:07 PM

one line per port on router/switch..


AKA: SMOKE
MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#30 ONLINE   dennisj00

dennisj00

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 9,311 posts
  • LocationLake Norman, NC
Joined: Sep 27, 2007

Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:41 PM

I think there's a misunderstanding about the patch panel wiring and it's use.


Spending to stimulate the economy as fast as the credit cards will allow!

My Setup / Weather at Lake Norman!/ Boathouse BEES
DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#31 OFFLINE   peds48

peds48

    🙈🙉🙊📡

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,859 posts
  • LocationNY
Joined: Jan 10, 2008

Posted 13 August 2013 - 07:14 PM

But can the dedicated line connect to any one of the jacks and link all of the other wires wired into the panel or does a dedicated wire have to go into each jack for all of them to work?

so if you need three lines active, you need three lines from your router to the patch panel


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk
Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#32 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,289 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 13 August 2013 - 07:20 PM

it would be beneficial for TS to take his time, get initial knowledge about network wiring from books, Internet, etc

 

but play 'ping-pong' with half-baked questions-answers will not give him proper picture what must be inside of HIS knowledge bucket



#33 OFFLINE   houskamp

houskamp

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 8,636 posts
Joined: Sep 14, 2006

Posted 13 August 2013 - 07:36 PM

so if you need three lines active, you need three lines from your router to the patch panel


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk

yep..


AKA: SMOKE
MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#34 OFFLINE   rick4464

rick4464

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 11 posts
  • LocationFrederick, MD
Joined: Aug 11, 2013

Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:00 PM

I am familiar and comfortable with the wiring part, but I have never used a patch panel so I didn't know the use or limitations and the explanations here were great.  Once I understood the line to the router, the rest made sense to me.  I preferred to have all of the lines working together, but if I can only have one of the wall jacks working for now, so be it.  I will have them moved in once I get situated better and have more time and $$ to get it done.  

 

Everything is working now for what I can do and the help is appreciated. 



#35 OFFLINE   rick4464

rick4464

    Cool Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 11 posts
  • LocationFrederick, MD
Joined: Aug 11, 2013

Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:01 PM

I think there's a misunderstanding about the patch panel wiring and it's use.

This is exactly what the issue was.



#36 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,289 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:10 PM

I don't see what it could be simpler than the wires and patch panel... perhaps having deal with it for many years it become too familiar

200px-EthernetPatchPanelDiagram.png..


Edited by P Smith, 13 August 2013 - 08:19 PM.


#37 OFFLINE   peds48

peds48

    🙈🙉🙊📡

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,859 posts
  • LocationNY
Joined: Jan 10, 2008

Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:13 PM

I am familiar and comfortable with the wiring part, but I have never used a patch panel so I didn't know the use or limitations and the explanations here were great. Once I understood the line to the router, the rest made sense to me. I preferred to have all of the lines working together, but if I can only have one of the wall jacks working for now, so be it. I will have them moved in once I get situated better and have more time and $$ to get it done.

Everything is working now for what I can do and the help is appreciated.

The good thing about patch panels is now those wires can handle phone or network depending what you connect to the panel. This is (was) how it should have been done from the get go, but inside....


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk
Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#38 OFFLINE   wingrider01

wingrider01

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,764 posts
Joined: Sep 09, 2005

Posted 14 August 2013 - 06:35 AM

A patch panel has no powered electronics parts no risk of "frying" something or even fire

 

Some patch panels do - a POE patch panel will have an electrical connection at the panel

 

http://www.powerover...?article_id=293



#39 OFFLINE   zx10guy

zx10guy

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 111 posts
Joined: Nov 16, 2008

Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:19 AM

PoE patch panels are the exception and not the norm.  So the statement that patch panels don't have a powered component can be taken to be generally true.  In the various enterprise/campus networks I've been involved with or seen, I've never come across a single PoE patch panel.

 

In addition, going with a PoE patch panel would be significant problem when it comes time to upgrade.  PoE (802.3af) is the norm now, but more and more networks are requiring PoE+(802.3at).  If you had a PoE patch panel, you would be faced with a significant upgrade issue as it would not be a simple rip and replace.  You'll first have to source a PoE+ capable patch panel and then deal with the labor involved in having to repunch down all the LAN drops.  Versus just unplugging the patch cables to a PoE enabled switch and inserting the new PoE+ capable switch.



#40 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,289 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:41 AM

I'm pretty sure TS will get headache after reading posts here - the his target blurring and fading thanks to extensive knowledge and broad experience of posting members :)



#41 OFFLINE   armophob

armophob

    Difficulty Concen........

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 7,200 posts
  • LocationFort Pierce, FL
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:32 AM

They will for a price. I know because I am "they".

The phone company will not touch any of the wiring from the house to the NID. 



#42 OFFLINE   zx10guy

zx10guy

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 111 posts
Joined: Nov 16, 2008

Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:09 PM

I guess it depends on the locality.



#43 OFFLINE   wingrider01

wingrider01

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,764 posts
Joined: Sep 09, 2005

Posted 14 August 2013 - 06:28 PM

PoE patch panels are the exception and not the norm.  So the statement that patch panels don't have a powered component can be taken to be generally true.  In the various enterprise/campus networks I've been involved with or seen, I've never come across a single PoE patch panel.

 

In addition, going with a PoE patch panel would be significant problem when it comes time to upgrade.  PoE (802.3af) is the norm now, but more and more networks are requiring PoE+(802.3at).  If you had a PoE patch panel, you would be faced with a significant upgrade issue as it would not be a simple rip and replace.  You'll first have to source a PoE+ capable patch panel and then deal with the labor involved in having to repunch down all the LAN drops.  Versus just unplugging the patch cables to a PoE enabled switch and inserting the new PoE+ capable switch.

 

In mid size businesses that do not have deep pockets but need to switch to POE for phones, camera and other devices it is definitely cheaper to use a POE patch panel then forklifting the entire switch infrastructure from the normal switches to POE switches.



#44 OFFLINE   peds48

peds48

    🙈🙉🙊📡

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,859 posts
  • LocationNY
Joined: Jan 10, 2008

Posted 14 August 2013 - 08:58 PM

PoE patch panels are the exception and not the norm. So the statement that patch panels don't have a powered component can be taken to be generally true.

Yup, right on! :righton:


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk
  • zx10guy likes this
Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#45 OFFLINE   zx10guy

zx10guy

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 111 posts
Joined: Nov 16, 2008

Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:05 PM

In mid size businesses that do not have deep pockets but need to switch to POE for phones, camera and other devices it is definitely cheaper to use a POE patch panel then forklifting the entire switch infrastructure from the normal switches to POE switches.

 

One can get a Netgear ProSafe GS724TP PoE switch for around $500.  I hardly think that's breaking the bank or requires a company with deep pockets.  Contrast that with a Panduit DPOE24U1XG which runs about $1400 and requires a separate 48V DC power feed not included in this price (or the labor to install/punch down the connections.)  And your inference about "forklifting the entire switch infrastructure from the normal switches to POE switches" is such a gross exaggeration it's not even funny.  Swapping out 1U closet switches is pretty basic and happens all the time in businesses...small, medium, or large.  If someone considers doing such a change a "forklift" then that person needs to examine another profession. 



#46 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,289 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:22 PM

you are guys derailing the thread to professional discussion, it has nothing to do with the topic

:backtotop:



#47 OFFLINE   wingrider01

wingrider01

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,764 posts
Joined: Sep 09, 2005

Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:12 PM

One can get a Netgear ProSafe GS724TP PoE switch for around $500.  I hardly think that's breaking the bank or requires a company with deep pockets.  Contrast that with a Panduit DPOE24U1XG which runs about $1400 and requires a separate 48V DC power feed not included in this price (or the labor to install/punch down the connections.)  And your inference about "forklifting the entire switch infrastructure from the normal switches to POE switches" is such a gross exaggeration it's not even funny.  Swapping out 1U closet switches is pretty basic and happens all the time in businesses...small, medium, or large.  If someone considers doing such a change a "forklift" then that person needs to examine another profession. 

 

I am talking about commercial grade switches, Cisco 3750's, and 47XX's. Looked at the documentation, see very little on specifications, is it a layer 3 switch?



#48 OFFLINE   wingrider01

wingrider01

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,764 posts
Joined: Sep 09, 2005

Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:19 PM

you are guys derailing the thread to professional discussion, it has nothing to do with the topic

:backtotop:

 

Happen to have a 3750 POE switch in my home wiring closet. the statement "A patch panel has no powered electronics parts no risk of "frying" something or even fire" was made, there are panels that have POE capability and they do have a risk of frying.

 

The builder needs to be involved, evidently they have no idea what a properly wired cat 5 network is for a home the dmark for a pots line should be terminated in the carriers box on the outside and a line extended to the wiring closet. Nothing should be brought out to the Telco's box on the side of the house. If a fault occurs the Telco can claim the additional wires in the box are causing a issue and make it a chargeable service call.



#49 OFFLINE   zx10guy

zx10guy

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 111 posts
Joined: Nov 16, 2008

Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:27 PM

I am talking about commercial grade switches, Cisco 3750's, and 47XX's. Looked at the documentation, see very little on specifications, is it a layer 3 switch?

 

While the Netgear switches are not at the same stature as Cisco, it will work in many access layer applications.  Add to the fact, the ProSafe line from Netgear has a "lifetime" (ie 20 years from EOS) warranty, it is hard to ignore the value these switches bring to the table.  There are options other than Cisco and having to get pummeled with SmartNet.  And if Netgear isn't "commercial grade" enough for you there are other alternatives such as Dell PowerConnect where a 5524P goes for $1900 with a lifetime warranty.

 

For edge access, depending on how you design your network, the absence of layer 3 at the edge is not a big deal and often times a preferred design over having a bunch of routing devices on your network.  In the enterprise networks I've designed and deployed, I prefer to have a core switch/router where I have centralized control over how the routing happens at a given location/enclave.  And there are other networks I've seen that are architected the same way.

 

As someone stated, this is getting well off topic and if you want to continue this discussion via PM, be my guest.


Edited by zx10guy, 15 August 2013 - 01:44 PM.


#50 OFFLINE   zx10guy

zx10guy

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 111 posts
Joined: Nov 16, 2008

Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:43 PM

Happen to have a 3750 POE switch in my home wiring closet. the statement "A patch panel has no powered electronics parts no risk of "frying" something or even fire" was made, there are panels that have POE capability and they do have a risk of frying.

 

The builder needs to be involved, evidently they have no idea what a properly wired cat 5 network is for a home the dmark for a pots line should be terminated in the carriers box on the outside and a line extended to the wiring closet. Nothing should be brought out to the Telco's box on the side of the house. If a fault occurs the Telco can claim the additional wires in the box are causing a issue and make it a chargeable service call.

 

And I (and others) have said to run into a PoE enabled patch panel is rare and the exception.  Especially if you're talking about a home installation where I doubt anyone has a Telco/wiring closet/data center arrangement in their home which provides 48V DC power nor have I seen any structured cabinets which have a PoE patch panel option.  So again, in the home application, the statement patch panels have no electronic parts is valid and I would argue that in a business/enterprise environment the same assumption can be made as per the reasons I've stated, it's rare to see a PoE enabled patch panel.

 

There is nothing wrong with have Category cable all pulled to the NID as long as the intent is for the cables to only be used for POTS line connectivity.  If the homeowner doesn't pay for a specific setup for network setup which consists of a structured wiring cabinet or something similar, the workers pulling the cable will assume the lines will be used only for phone service and hence why all the drops are pulled to the Telco NID.  If there is a deviation from this default configuration, the homeowner needs to be very clear with the builder and the builder needs to be on top of their subcontractor to make the pull the drops to the proper location.  I had this done when I had my house built where I was clear with the builder I wanted the Cat5e drops pulled to a certain location in the basement.  I also had a meeting with the sub to make sure they were aware the cables needed to go to a specific location.

 

The Telco is also not going to care that there are multiple Category cables pulled to the NID.  As the NIDs I've seen have a customer and Telco side.  The sub would pull and typically terminate the cables on the customer side which decouples the Telco from any responsibility for the wiring.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: networking, prewire, help, cat 5

Protected By... spam firewall...And...