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H10 receiver is letterboxed when set to "full"


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21 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:50 PM

I know this is a very old receiver, maybe someone still remembers something about it or is still using an HR10. Perhaps I should post this in the SD forum, if the moderators think it should be moved please feel free.

 

Since the H10 works fine for SD and has an ATSC tuner I had use for one so I recently reactivated it. It is plugged into a SDTV (in an office) set to 4:3 and "full" but the picture is still letterboxed on the Directv channels. On the ATSC channels the picture has the correct ratio.

 

When I hit the format button it cycles through 4:3 full, 4:3 zoom and 4:3 letterbox. The picture zooms as expected for 4:3 zoom, is letterboxed as expected for 4:3 letterbox, and but 4:3 full leaves the picture unchanged from 4:3 letterbox.

 

Any ideas? I probably shouldn't hold my breath for any H10 software updates to come through the stream, so if this is a bug that was fixed in a software update that came out after this receiver was taken offline (sometime in summer 2006) I may be SOL :)

 


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#2 OFFLINE   adamson

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:54 PM

try "crop" setting if there is one...that's the ticket.


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#3 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 01:29 PM

The H10 manual says it is an HD receiver. Make sure you are viewing an SD channel. If not, switch to it.


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#4 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:13 PM

The only HD channels the H10 can display are ATSC. It used the older MPEG2 HD channels that are no longer available, and only displays SD channels since those MPEG2 HD channels were discontinued long ago after the launch of the 99 and 103 satellites.

 

Unfortunately there is no "crop" setting. Only zoom, letterbox and full.


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#5 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:05 PM

Are there any picture Zoom, etc. on the TV itself ? Might try that.

Other than what you have tried, sounds like they need to get you an upgraded receiver for that one.


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HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#6 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:23 PM

Are you sure the format control actually works at all when viewing 4:3 SD channels. And you are viewing a channel that is simply being broadcast in 4:3 letterbox?

 

Just wondering since if in the receiver settings 4:3 is selected and you receive a native 4:3 signal, the format control is usually disabled even on modern STBs like the current DIRECTV HD receivers.  


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#7 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 02:50 AM

The only HD channels the H10 can display are ATSC. It used the older MPEG2 HD channels that are no longer available, and only displays SD channels since those MPEG2 HD channels were discontinued long ago after the launch of the 99 and 103 satellites.

 

Just curious (if you are connected to the 119° sat), are you able to access any of the espanol MPEG2 HD on channels 405 (MEGA), 408 (UniMas West), or 426 (beIN) with that receiver?


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#8 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:44 AM

Just curious (if you are connected to the 119° sat), are you able to access any of the espanol MPEG2 HD on channels 405 (MEGA), 408 (UniMas West), or 426 (beIN) with that receiver?

No, like all DIRECTV HD nowadays those channels use MPEG-4 as well, but on Ku band.

 

They are also using 8-PSK modulation which I doubt those old HR10-250 DVRs can receive either. 


Edited by HoTat2, 20 August 2013 - 08:49 AM.

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#9 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 09:16 AM

I have been playing with this using my old 20" CRT.

 

In my HR24 if I change the TV Ratio to 4:3,

then go to Video and Screen Format: It now has the choices for : Original Format ( this is probably the Full on your receiver ) which should make the picture fit the screen of your SD TV, However, some of the providers are broadcasting an HD shaped format to use in the SD channels.

 

Letterbox  which has some programs fit the screen and some don't depending on what the content provider is supplying,

Stretch which I did not try,

and Crop which should blow up one of the Letterboxed formats.


DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM,   HR24-100 HDMI to 32" Sharp LED,
HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#10 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 09:27 AM

I have been playing with this using my old 20" CRT.

 

In my HR24 if I change the TV Ratio to 4:3,

then go to Video and Screen Format: It now has the choices for : Original Format ( this is probably the Full on your receiver ) which should make the picture fit the screen of your SD TV, However, some of the providers are broadcasting an HD shaped format to use in the SD channels.

 

Letterbox  which has some programs fit the screen and some don't depending on what the content provider is supplying,

Stretch which I did not try,

and Crop which should blow up one of the Letterboxed formats.

But if you tune to a 4:3 SD channel, does switching the format do nothing at all to the picture? 


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#11 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 11:00 AM

But if you tune to a 4:3 SD channel, does switching the format do nothing at all to the picture? 

You are correct. Maybe I was manipulating HD channels when I set it up in the beginning.

 

Actually the different formats  do not do anything to it on my setup on the SD channels.

 

I just tried it on one of the ESPN channels and then tried the Golf channel. The ESPN stayed in letterbox format and the Golf channel stayed in the standard SD TV 4:3 full screen.

Some channels are just going to be in letterbox format because of the way they are transmitted from the provider to DirecTV.

 

It is hard to get it to do 480i. It wants to do 480p and you have to mess with it get it to go there and stay when hooked to the SD TV.


Edited by jimmie57, 20 August 2013 - 11:55 AM.

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#12 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 01:03 PM

It is connected using the RCA video output to a 20" Panasonic CRT. There aren't any settings on the TV to control aspect ratio. I have the H10 set to 480i/480p only - there is no specific 480i setting, but RCA video only does 480i anyway.

 

I get what you guys are saying about some channels having their SD version in letterbox, maybe that's part of the problem, but I'm seeing the edges of the picture getting cut off. If it is a channel like ESPN and there's text on the left side saying something like "Vikings preseason" it shows up as "ings preseason". But when I view a local channel via the ATSC tuner it comes in perfectly, no letterboxing and no overscan. I'll try some more channels and see if every satellite channel is letterboxed or if it just some of them and that's all I tried. It just seems weird to me that it is doing this, since it can only pick up SD channels via satellite.

 

I also remember a setting for the 'bar type' on letterbox I think it was, while that shouldn't have any effect when you're in 'full' it can't hurt to play around with it since I think that's the only thing I didn't mess with. Other than that, guess we'll live with it or pick up another cheap H20 off Ebay. I may leave it connected for a month just to see if it ever picks up a software update. That Directv firmware site doesn't show H10 any more, but I don't know if that's because they never send out firmware for it or if he just removed it from being listed on the site since it is obsolete. Probably both :)

 

I suppose connecting an H10 to a CRT was never well tested because it had a short life and it would have been silly to buy one to connect it to anything but an HDTV.


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#13 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 01:11 PM

It is connected using the RCA video output to a 20" Panasonic CRT. There aren't any settings on the TV to control aspect ratio. I have the H10 set to 480i/480p only - there is no specific 480i setting, but RCA video only does 480i anyway.

 

I get what you guys are saying about some channels having their SD version in letterbox, maybe that's part of the problem, but I'm seeing the edges of the picture getting cut off. If it is a channel like ESPN and there's text on the left side saying something like "Vikings preseason" it shows up as "ings preseason". But when I view a local channel via the ATSC tuner it comes in perfectly, no letterboxing and no overscan. I'll try some more channels and see if every satellite channel is letterboxed or if it just some of them and that's all I tried. It just seems weird to me that it is doing this, since it can only pick up SD channels via satellite.

 

I also remember a setting for the 'bar type' on letterbox I think it was, while that shouldn't have any effect when you're in 'full' it can't hurt to play around with it since I think that's the only thing I didn't mess with. Other than that, guess we'll live with it or pick up another cheap H20 off Ebay. I may leave it connected for a month just to see if it ever picks up a software update. That Directv firmware site doesn't show H10 any more, but I don't know if that's because they never send out firmware for it or if he just removed it from being listed on the site since it is obsolete. Probably both :)

 

I suppose connecting an H10 to a CRT was never well tested because it had a short life and it would have been silly to buy one to connect it to anything but an HDTV.

Highly advise against getting an H20 to run on the CRT in 480i. If I am correct it will download the HD software and the Guide being transformed to fit the SD is just unbearable because it is so hard to read. I am going thru that now with a friend that has hooked up a Genie to a 53" rear projection TV that only does 480i. she is sitting 12 feet away and has to get up and walk to within 4 feet of the screen to read the guide.

I am going to switch her out from the red white and yellow connection to the Component setup and see if it does the job. I just did this on my 20" Samsung and it helps a little bit.

I think I would get the D12 which is a true SD receiver.


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HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#14 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 01:52 PM

Highly advise against getting an H20 to run on the CRT in 480i. If I am correct it will download the HD software and the Guide being transformed to fit the SD is just unbearable because it is so hard to read. I am going thru that now with a friend that has hooked up a Genie to a 53" rear projection TV that only does 480i. she is sitting 12 feet away and has to get up and walk to within 4 feet of the screen to read the guide.

I am going to switch her out from the red white and yellow connection to the Component setup and see if it does the job. I just did this on my 20" Samsung and it helps a little bit.

I think I would get the D12 which is a true SD receiver.

OK;

 

Just be advised that if the TV set will still only accept 480i even over component, this can be a PITA during things like a receiver restart, firmware upgrade, needing to run the satellite setup again, and so forth, since the D* receivers (for some reason) always switch to 480p over the component and HDMI connections for these operations making the picture un-viewable for a 480i only set on the component connections..  .   


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#15 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 02:13 PM

OK;

 

Just be advised that if the TV set will still only accept 480i even over component, this can be a PITA during things like a receiver restart, firmware upgrade, needing to run the satellite setup again, and so forth, since the D* receivers (for some reason) always switch to 480p over the component and HDMI connections for these operations making the picture un-viewable for a 480i only set on the component connections..  .   

This little 20" I have works with 480p on the composite connection which I find strange and it only works with 480i on the Component connection.

It looks like a severely messed up TV when it is on the 480p on the Component connection. I feel pretty sure that I read that my friends TV only does 480i using the Component connection also.

 

After awhile I will try to set the 20" working with the 480i Component and then do a restart of the receiver and see what happens. Thanks for the warning. If it switches all the time my friend would drive me nuts calling for help.

She is already really dissatisfied with the switch she made from dish SD service. Her and her husband both say they can not read the guide on their TVs. His is a 42" Sony HD TV. I need to go over there but I am afraid to leave my handicapped son alone for very long.


Edited by jimmie57, 20 August 2013 - 02:17 PM.

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#16 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 02:55 PM

OK;

 

Just be advised that if the TV set will still only accept 480i even over component, this can be a PITA during things like a receiver restart, firmware upgrade, needing to run the satellite setup again, and so forth, since the D* receivers (for some reason) always switch to 480p over the component and HDMI connections for these operations making the picture un-viewable for a 480i only set on the component connections..  .   

This is correct and incorrect at the same time.

I did all the adjustments to the receiver to get it to send 480i over component. I unchecked all other resolutions.

Then I did a reset of the receiver. As it was starting up I kept seeing 480p, 720p, 480i on the top right hand side of my Vizio ( not the 20" crt ). During this time the 20" crt screen was looking like a broke TV.

 

When it got to the screen with the DTV Logo and showing the progress it went to the 480i that I had set for in the receiver and cranked right up.


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HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#17 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:32 PM

This is correct and incorrect at the same time.

I did all the adjustments to the receiver to get it to send 480i over component. I unchecked all other resolutions.

Then I did a reset of the receiver. As it was starting up I kept seeing 480p, 720p, 480i on the top right hand side of my Vizio ( not the 20" crt ). During this time the 20" crt screen was looking like a broke TV.

 

When it got to the screen with the DTV Logo and showing the progress it went to the 480i that I had set for in the receiver and cranked right up.

Oh I was aware it would eventually go to the set resolution (480i in this case) after sufficiently into the the restart cycle, but IIRC things like firmware upgrades and running the satellite setup could not be viewed on a 480i TV over component was mainly my concern.

 

And you say you have a TV that accepts 480p over composite?

 

That's interesting, as I've never heard of that before, nor of any video source which would deliver a 480 progressive scan signal over a composite connection.    


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#18 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:38 PM

Oh I was aware it would eventually go to the set resolution (480i in this case) after sufficiently into the the restart cycle, but IIRC things like firmware upgrades and running the satellite setup could not be viewed on a 480i TV over component was mainly my concern.

 

And you say you have a TV that accepts 480p over composite?

 

That's interesting, as I've never heard of that before, nor of any video source which would deliver a 480 progressive scan signal over a composite connection.    

To be clear I can not check the input ( 480p or 480i ) on the 20" TV. I just know that when I press the exit button and hold it to get it into SD mode it jumps to 480p and there is a picture there. In fact, there is a picture there before I switch the TV to SD. Maybe the composite connection / output is changing it to 480i all the time.


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HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#19 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:00 PM

To be clear I can not check the input ( 480p or 480i ) on the 20" TV. I just know that when I press the exit button and hold it to get it into SD mode it jumps to 480p and there is a picture there. In fact, there is a picture there before I switch the TV to SD. Maybe the composite connection / output is changing it to 480i all the time.

Yes it is, composite and s-video outputs are 480i all the time. 

 

The aspect ratio may be 4:3 or 16:9 depending on whether an 4:3 SD or HD (which is always 16:9) is being received. but the resolution is always 480i on those connectors.


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#20 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 07:41 PM

Yes it is, composite and s-video outputs are 480i all the time. 

 

The aspect ratio may be 4:3 or 16:9 depending on whether an 4:3 SD or HD (which is always 16:9) is being received. but the resolution is always 480i on those connectors.

That brings to question as to how good is the picture from the S video compared to the Component using the 480i. There is a noticeable difference in the smoothness / less jagged text in the Guide and that is my end goal is to get it readable for her.


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HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD





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