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Google, NFL meeting reportedly includes Sunday Ticket discussions


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132 replies to this topic

#121 OFFLINE   zimm7778

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 10:47 AM

For whatever its worth, personally I think regardless of how this plays out, depending on the deal length it will be the final NFL Sunday Ticket out of market sports package deal the way we know it now. I think by the time they get around to the end of the next deal, all games will be on broadcast/pay TV. The latest deal with broadcast networks IIRC included a mix of NFC/AFC games between both CBS and Fox. No longer was it based in nearly every case of who the away team is. Fox now has Fox Sports 1 and 2. CBS has CBS Sports Network and Showtime. ESPN has 4 networks, NBC has NBC Sports Network (and could use others within their family of stations too), and there's of course the NFL Network. I believe with all these channels they'll hammer out some deal that gets every game on TV every week without the need of an out of market package.

When the NFL offered a Red Zone Channel to cable subs, the whole "we are protecting the broadcast networks" argument flew out the door. If your team is playing on local TV, you'll watch. If not, you either watched the other game or you did something else before. Now they gave you the option to watch other games. They let the genie out of the bottle and I think there's no turning back now. Nor do I think Goodell wants to.

Edited by zimm7778, 12 September 2013 - 10:48 AM.


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#122 OFFLINE   JosephB

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 10:52 AM

For whatever its worth, personally I think regardless of how this plays out, depending on the deal length it will be the final NFL Sunday Ticket out of market sports package deal the way we know it now. I think by the time they get around to the end of the next deal, all games will be on broadcast/pay TV. The latest deal with broadcast networks IIRC included a mix of NFC/AFC games between both CBS and Fox. No longer was it based in nearly every case of who the away team is. Fox now has Fox Sports 1 and 2. CBS has CBS Sports Network and Showtime. ESPN has 4 networks, NBC has NBC Sports Network (and could use others within their family of stations too), and there's of course the NFL Network. I believe with all these channels they'll hammer out some deal that gets every game on TV every week without the need of an out of market package.

When the NFL offered a Red Zone Channel to cable subs, the whole "we are protecting the broadcast networks" argument flew out the door. If your team is playing on local TV, you'll watch. If not, you either watched the other game or you did something else before. Now they gave you the option to watch other games. They let the genie out of the bottle and I think there's no turning back now. Nor do I think Goodell wants to.

 

Very good point. And, with CBS and Fox owning sports networks, protecting broadcasters doesn't really matter. If Fox, CBS, NBC, and ESPN bid a package to the NFL that puts every game available on cable or broadcast that makes the NFL the same amount of money, then they will have just relieved DirecTV of a $1 billion marketing line item.



#123 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:55 PM

Very good point. And, with CBS and Fox owning sports networks, protecting broadcasters doesn't really matter. If Fox, CBS, NBC, and ESPN bid a package to the NFL that puts every game available on cable or broadcast that makes the NFL the same amount of money, then they will have just relieved DirecTV of a $1 billion marketing line item.

 

For whatever its worth, personally I think regardless of how this plays out, depending on the deal length it will be the final NFL Sunday Ticket out of market sports package deal the way we know it now. I think by the time they get around to the end of the next deal, all games will be on broadcast/pay TV. The latest deal with broadcast networks IIRC included a mix of NFC/AFC games between both CBS and Fox. No longer was it based in nearly every case of who the away team is. Fox now has Fox Sports 1 and 2. CBS has CBS Sports Network and Showtime. ESPN has 4 networks, NBC has NBC Sports Network (and could use others within their family of stations too), and there's of course the NFL Network. I believe with all these channels they'll hammer out some deal that gets every game on TV every week without the need of an out of market package.

When the NFL offered a Red Zone Channel to cable subs, the whole "we are protecting the broadcast networks" argument flew out the door. If your team is playing on local TV, you'll watch. If not, you either watched the other game or you did something else before. Now they gave you the option to watch other games. They let the genie out of the bottle and I think there's no turning back now. Nor do I think Goodell wants to.

I don't think they will let them put it on showtime and in a bar you can't get Premium TV Channels.

 

Also Fox Sports 1 and 2. CBS has CBS Sports Network NBC Sports Network (and could use others within their family of stations too) will all need reverse mirror feeds so that games can be shown locally OTA with you still being able to view all other games. The NFL turned down NBCSN from getting some of the thursday night football due to them not wanting the games on OTA tv in local markets. Also you need about 10-15+? channels to cover all games with over lap padding not counting any reverse mirror feeds. Look at how meny systems don't have all the big ten alt feeds in HD to see why alt feeds may not good or comcast epic fail with epl.

 

And moving games to RSN's can happen but cable / iN DEMAND bandwidth limits will hurt haveing each game open to all as an add on pack also the RSN's have other teams to show and it will suck to have an NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA game pushed to an SD only alt channel or an HD alt channel that all in market systems do not have. Also I don't think the NFL will like a team being put on a CSN Houston , CSNNW or CSN Philly / TCN Philly that has limited in market coverage.


Edited by JoeTheDragon, 12 September 2013 - 12:58 PM.

I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#124 OFFLINE   JosephB

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:08 PM

NBC Sports Network getting the NFL on Thursday would not result in the games being on broadcast NBC. NBCSN is cable only. Also, RSNs wouldn't be required and weren't mentioned.

 

CBS Sports has access to all the Turner channels (TBS, TNT, truTV) if necessary, but they also have CBS Sports Network. If the package is opened up to NBC as well you can easily find enough national HD channels + broadcast to show all the games. Of course some of those networks are not widely carried (CBS SN and NBC SN), but if they got the NFL their carriage would increase dramatically. 

 

Between Fox, NBC, ESPN, and CBS the national channels that have carried sports before and could easily make holes in their schedule on Sundays would be:
 

ESPN

ESPN2

Fox Sports 1

Fox Sports 2

CBS Broadcast

Fox Broadcast

NBC Broadcast

CBS Sports Network

NBC Sports Network

TBS

TNT

truTV

CNBC

 

Granted, I find such a scenario far fetched, at least this year. Next time around, who knows? What percentage of households have OTA only? What percentage of NFL viewing households have OTA only? Eventually the concept of broadcast vs. cable will go away, even more than it has today. This especially as Fox and NBC build their national sports networks into real competitors for ESPN, and one way to do so will be to get the NFL on those channels.

 

It's in the NFL's best interests to get it out of a premium package anyway. If they can make as much or even a little less on a cable+broadcast deal instead of NFLST, the increased viewership will mean increased ad revenue for the league. Raw money from DirecTV isn't the only variable in the equation, eyeballs factor in too.



#125 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:17 PM

NBC Sports Network getting the NFL on Thursday would not result in the games being on broadcast NBC. NBCSN is cable only. Also, RSNs wouldn't be required and weren't mentioned.

 

The Thursday nights games are on NFL net and local teams area OTA channels. NBCSN did not want to have the local teams OTA part and the NFL just added more games to NFL NET and local teams areas.


I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#126 OFFLINE   JosephB

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:18 PM

The Thursday nights games are on NFL net and local teams area OTA channels. NBCSN did not want to have the local teams OTA part and the NFL just added more games to NFL NET and local teams areas.

Ok, by "them" you meant NBCSN, and I thought you meant the NFL. That part is clearer now.



#127 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:30 PM


 

Granted, I find such a scenario far fetched, at least this year. Next time around, who knows? What percentage of households have OTA only? What percentage of NFL viewing households have OTA only? Eventually the concept of broadcast vs. cable will go away, even more than it has today. This especially as Fox and NBC build their national sports networks into real competitors for ESPN, and one way to do so will be to get the NFL on those channels.

 

It's in the NFL's best interests to get it out of a premium package anyway. If they can make as much or even a little less on a cable+broadcast deal instead of NFLST, the increased viewership will mean increased ad revenue for the league. Raw money from DirecTV isn't the only variable in the equation, eyeballs factor in too.

Well theres OTA but there is also that some of listed channels are in sports packs / higher levels (on some systems and who knows what will happen if dish pulls ESPN or what that MLB blackout law suit will lead to but at least in lot's of systems Fox Sports 2 and CBS Sports Network are not in the same basic level that you local RSN is in) Even then let's say at the very least Broadcast be comes local teams only then you may be ok. But let say you still use Broadcast for some games and local games must be on Broadcast then you may need reverse mirror feeds.


I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#128 OFFLINE   JosephB

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:41 PM

"Reverse mirror" feeds are not an insurmountable problem. It might required increased bandwidth on the two satellite providers, but on cable they already do it with ESPN and college football and baseball. Game A is on a broadcast station in Market A and on ESPN everywhere else then ESPN in Market A will show something else. Doesn't require an increase in capacity on cable. And in terms of the satellite providers, if that came to pass DirecTV would have plenty of room from no longer carrying NFL ST.



#129 OFFLINE   jerrylove56

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:17 PM

There were two things that pops up for me;
1. Thinking that satellite and cable are the only legit options for the NFL are not in tune with the trend by Americans to watch more tv online.
https://www.npd.com/...-the-npd-group/

2. If DTV loses NFL ST will this be an opening for Charlie E. to acquire his main competition? Without the NFL doesn't DTV value decrease significantly.

#130 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:41 PM

There were two things that pops up for me;
1. Thinking that satellite and cable are the only legit options for the NFL are not in tune with the trend by Americans to watch more tv online.
https://www.npd.com/...-the-npd-group/

2. If DTV loses NFL ST will this be an opening for Charlie E. to acquire his main competition? Without the NFL doesn't DTV value decrease significantly.

 

LOL to what?  The same as Dish currently?


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#131 OFFLINE   JosephB

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:41 PM

There were two things that pops up for me;
1. Thinking that satellite and cable are the only legit options for the NFL are not in tune with the trend by Americans to watch more tv online.
https://www.npd.com/...-the-npd-group/

2. If DTV loses NFL ST will this be an opening for Charlie E. to acquire his main competition? Without the NFL doesn't DTV value decrease significantly.

 

The trend is more online viewing, but the vast majority is still TV-based, for lack of a better term. Plus, NFL ST has a different audience. Going forward I absolutely see an online component staying part of NFLST and maybe even becoming more prominent (for example getting split out from DirecTV and being offered standalone), but the MVPD based distribution will stick around for a long time yet. Think about sports bars that need every game in HD, or the hard core fans who watch every game at once. Internet viewing cannot sustain that. Plus, the sheer numbers of people who are still on cable/satellite still just trumps internet viewing.

 

And as it comes to a merger with Dish, I don't think NFLST has anything to do with it. Last time around it was denied on regulatory grounds. It's $1 billion either way, and yes DirecTV has the rights but they paid for it, so it's not a significant net gainer or loser in terms of book value



#132 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:37 PM

"Reverse mirror" feeds are not an insurmountable problem. It might required increased bandwidth on the two satellite providers, but on cable they already do it with ESPN and college football and baseball. Game A is on a broadcast station in Market A and on ESPN everywhere else then ESPN in Market A will show something else. Doesn't require an increase in capacity on cable. And in terms of the satellite providers, if that came to pass DirecTV would have plenty of room from no longer carrying NFL ST.

There may be C-band / back hall bandwidth issues and cable systems and channels may need to install new receivers and other stuff that can do Reverse mirrors.  Also what about cable areas that don't have the full NBC, FOX, CBS OTA lineup they may need to be able to show both the main and Reverse mirror feed at the same time.


I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#133 OFFLINE   JosephB

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:08 PM

If a system has the equipment to carry the main feed of ESPN or Fox Sports 1 they will have the equipment to carry a reverse feed. All that would happen is that in a city that has a non-standard game on a given channel will tune their receiver to another feed.

 

C-band and backhaul issues don't exist. There is more than enough bandwidth to get that stuff back and forth.






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