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Need help on a Genie install


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21 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   dismayed

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:22 PM

Here's the situation. I am upgrading from an HR21-700 with Whole Home to a Genie. At the start of this, here was my HR21 configuration: two wall coax ports; one going into a black box with power labelled SWM ODU Only, with a cable coming out of it going to a splitter. Out of one side of the splitter goes a cable to a band stop filter that then connects to coax in 2 on the back of the HR 21. The second line coming out of the splitter goes to a box labelled DCA/connected home adapter. Coax comes out of the other side of it, which plugs into HR21 coax in 1, and also an Ethernet cable comes out of the DCA box and goes into the Ethernet port on the HR21. Now back to the wall's second coax port: it goes into another box labelled DECA broadband adapter. It also has power going into it, and has an Ethernet cable coming out of it going into my router. Almost forgot, HR21 has HDMI out to my receiver. How should I hook up the Genie?

Edited by dismayed, 27 August 2013 - 11:21 PM.


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#2 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:40 AM

You know its strange;

 

What you are describing for the HR21-700 sounds like the special DECA hookup for the HR20-100 HD-DVR. Are you sure that is an HR21 you are referring to there?

 

Anyway, I need more information about your setup to advise you more on upgrading to the Genie.

 

How many and what type of receivers you have in your setup and type of SWiM system installed to determine the total number of SWiM tuners that can be supported.   


Edited by HoTat2, 28 August 2013 - 02:42 AM.

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#3 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 04:01 AM

Actually the one sounds like power for the swim lnb so that would have to stay online but everything else should be fine. Im referring to the one you said was labeled odu power only. That has to he hooked up right. What else do you have in the system though? There may be more to it if you have to many tuners.


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#4 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 05:25 AM

You know its strange;

What you are describing for the HR21-700 sounds like the special DECA hookup for the HR20-100 HD-DVR. Are you sure that is an HR21 you are referring to there?

Anyway, I need more information about your setup to advise you more on upgrading to the Genie.

How many and what type of receivers you have in your setup and type of SWiM system installed to determine the total number of SWiM tuners that can be supported.


Yeah, that sounds like the hook-up for a HR20 and not a HR21. Not sure why the tech would have done that if it is a HR21.

@OP: If you replace the HR21 with a Genie, you can just have the coax from the wall going to the PI. I would then terminate the output on the PI that you currently have going to the splitter. As for the second coax that goes to the DECA Broadband Adapter, you can remove that and plug that coax into the Genie. The Ethernet cable that is currently plugged into it, would be plugged into the Genie.


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Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#5 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 07:49 AM

Yeah, that sounds like the hook-up for a HR20 and not a HR21. Not sure why the tech would have done that if it is a HR21.

... @OP: If you replace the HR21 with a Genie, you can just have the coax from the wall going to the PI. I would then terminate the output on the PI that you currently have going to the splitter. As for the second coax that goes to the DECA Broadband Adapter, you can remove that and plug that coax into the Genie. The Ethernet cable that is currently plugged into it, would be plugged into the Genie.


- Merg


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Yeah Merg I just didn't want to make any suggestions like that for installing the Genie until I knew the TS' installation had the available SWiM tuner support.


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#6 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:00 AM

Actually the one sounds like power for the swim lnb so that would have to stay online but everything else should be fine. Im referring to the one you said was labeled odu power only. That has to he hooked up right. What else do you have in the system though? There may be more to it if you have to many tuners.


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Oh i understood the PI's description as well, and yes it's placement seems fine. But the description of the DECA hookup to an HR21 sounds like one for an HR20-100.

 

Although the TS may have the satellite inputs reversed in his description as Sat. 1 would have the BSF connected to it and Sat. 2 the DECA module for the HR20-100 hookup with the splitter placed ahead of the DECA.  


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#7 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:43 AM

Yeah Merg I just didn't want to make any suggestions like that for installing the Genie until I knew the TS' installation had the available SWiM tuner support.


Gotcha. Good thought.


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Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#8 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:45 AM

Oh i understood the PI's description as well, and yes it's placement seems fine. But the description of the DECA hookup to an HR21 sounds like one for an HR20-100.

Although the TS may have the satellite inputs reversed in his description as Sat. 1 would have the BSF connected to it and Sat. 2 the DECA module for the HR20-100 hookup with the splitter placed ahead of the DECA.


That's what I thought as well. Although, if the OP has the BSF connected to SAT2 that would explain why the system is working fine if it is a HR21 as the coax connected to SAT2 with the BSF would not do anything and the DECA still is powered via SAT1.


- Merg

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Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#9 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 10:46 AM

Oh I agree with you guys. Seems very odd. I almost wonder if he had one before and swapped it and didn't reconfigure. Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk mobile app

#10 OFFLINE   dismayed

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:47 PM

Wow you guys are great, thanks for these replies.  Yes as you suspected, years and years ago I had an HR20.  Probably 3-4 years ago I upgraded to an HR21.  At that time I spoke to a tech on the phone and they told me they'd just ship me the HR21 and that I should just replace cabling as-is and it would work fine.  I did, and it did.

 

Yesterday I received the Genie, which I am now replacing the HR21 with.  So I tried pulling everything out except for the bare bones as I mentioned and it didn't work, it said it couldn't detect SWM or something like that at setup.  So then I cabled everything back in the way it was originally, with of course some cables going nowhere now because the Genie only has the one coax, booted up the Genie and I'm able to watch TV now.  I suspect the SWM ODU Only box may really be the only thing I need to have in the loop but haven't tried yet? 

 

Whole Home is not working yet, but I think that is becuase I plugged the Genie directly into my router.  I found some diagrams on DTV's website and think I know what I need to do there this evening.

 

I have two other receivers in the house.  One looks like a baby Genie, and the other looks older (it is hooked into a standard def TV).  I can find the model numbers tonight.  I don't think I am planning on keeping the HR21 around.  It's slowness drives me insane.  When complete the Genie will be my only DVR.

 

Any further thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.


Edited by dismayed, 28 August 2013 - 02:48 PM.


#11 OFFLINE   dismayed

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:54 PM

Well I just realized I should log into the DTV website and see what hardware it says I have.  Here's what is listed there:  HR21-700, D12-300 (SD), H25-700 (HD), and HR44-500 (HD DVR).



#12 OFFLINE   dismayed

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 03:05 PM

Oh while I have so many smart people looking at this thread, do any of you happen to know the max number of series that can be added into Series Manager for recording?  With the HR21 it was 50 (yes, I am a couch potato).  I had heard a rumor that maybe it had increased to 100?



#13 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 04:28 PM

Yeah because the way you set it up by using the old configuration that's why all home is not working you need to rip all that out again. And leaving the power supply off earlier is why it wasnt working before. Then you want the cable coming out of the wall to go into the swim power supply and then from that into the Genie nothing else also make sure to pay close attention to which side says towards the ODU and which side towards the satellite reciver if you do them backwards it will fry the receiver.

Go ahead and leave the Internet cable plug directly into the genie.b then all will work right. Your bsf that is on it now is why Whole Home Service isn't working.

Personally I put the H 25 receiver wherever the second most used TV is and put the HR 21 on the third most used TV and toss that SD receiver

If you do use the HR 21 the proper configuration would be out of the wall into the deca box and out of the deck a box into sat one swim input on the receiver and ethernet cable into the back of the DVR and that's it you don't need two cables going into the back of it. That was for your one old receiver you had before and shouldn't have even been left like it was to be honest. So few people ever had that actual model that had the issue and needed that configuration.

Also of note you cannot have open cables with a swim system they must be terminated so you need to put a proper terminator on it or remove the cable completely if you can from the system

Oh and yeah the HR 44 has a series link limit of 100 so if you keep that plus the HR 21 you have a total limit of 150 series you could record instead of only 100.


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#14 OFFLINE   bossfan50

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 05:39 PM

Yeah because the way you set it up by using the old configuration that's why all home is not working you need to rip all that out again. And leaving the power supply off earlier is why it wasnt working before. Then you want the cable coming out of the wall to go into the swim power supply and then from that into the Genie nothing else also make sure to pay close attention to which side says towards the ODU and which side towards the satellite reciver if you do them backwards it will fry the receiver.

Go ahead and leave the Internet cable plug directly into the genie.b then all will work right. Your bsf that is on it now is why Whole Home Service isn't working.

Personally I put the H 25 receiver wherever the second most used TV is and put the HR 21 on the third most used TV and toss that SD receiver

If you do use the HR 21 the proper configuration would be out of the wall into the deca box and out of the deck a box into sat one swim input on the receiver and ethernet cable into the back of the DVR and that's it you don't need two cables going into the back of it. That was for your one old receiver you had before and shouldn't have even been left like it was to be honest. So few people ever had that actual model that had the issue and needed that configuration.

Also of note you cannot have open cables with a swim system they must be terminated so you need to put a proper terminator on it or remove the cable completely if you can from the system

Oh and yeah the HR 44 has a series link limit of 100 so if you keep that plus the HR 21 you have a total limit of 150 series you could record instead of only 100.


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What happens if you do not terminate the open cable, will nothing work on the system?  I received a drop shipped Genie today that will replace a HR20 so I will now have an unused cable.  I was going to hook up the Genie and then wait until I have a chance this weekend to go to a store to purchase terminator caps.  What will happen if the unused cable is left not terminated for a few days?


Edited by bossfan50, 28 August 2013 - 05:40 PM.


#15 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 05:56 PM

What happens if you do not terminate the open cable, will nothing work on the system? I received a drop shipped Genie today that will replace a HR20 so I will now have an unused cable. I was going to hook up the Genie and then wait until I have a chance this weekend to go to a store to purchase terminator caps. What will happen if the unused cable is left not terminated for a few days?


Do you have two sat feeds going into your HR20? If so unless you are like the op and have a very specific model you don't have swim at all right now an can't hook up the genie till you do.

And you never terminate non swim systems. With swim if you don terminate it can leed to various issues but it will sometimes work fine. It's a coin toss and a matter if time before you have issues if you live I terminated ends on a swim system.


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#16 OFFLINE   bossfan50

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:06 PM

Do you have two sat feeds going into your HR20? If so unless you are like the op and have a very specific model you don't have swim at all right now an can't hook up the genie till you do.

And you never terminate non swim systems. With swim if you don terminate it can leed to various issues but it will sometimes work fine. It's a coin toss and a matter if time before you have issues if you live I terminated ends on a swim system.


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I do have Swim because I have Whole Home MRV.

 

If it is best to terminate the unused cable then I will probably wait until this weekend to install the Genie when I can pick up some terminator caps.


Edited by bossfan50, 28 August 2013 - 06:53 PM.


#17 OFFLINE   dismayed

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 07:34 PM

Inkahauts: Thanks I'll try this shortly. One question though, do I need to call DTV and ask them to "re enable" my whole home? I've seen references to that in other threads. I noticed that I can "refresh my service" from the hardware page of the DTV website... Des that do the same thing as calling in? Good suggestion on just putting the spare DVR on the crappy TV in the spare bedroom. I'll take the band stop filter out from the Genie connection. I noticed that my other two receivers in the other rooms have BSFs on them too - do I need to remove those as well?

Edited by dismayed, 28 August 2013 - 07:43 PM.


#18 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 09:12 PM

Wait both the others? Yikes.

The decas have a bsf built into them so if you are using that then you dot need a bsf. The sd receiver did because it didn't have a deca and never will.

And I doubt you'll need to re authorize.


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#19 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:09 AM

I do have Swim because I have Whole Home MRV.

 

If it is best to terminate the unused cable then I will probably wait until this weekend to install the Genie when I can pick up some terminator caps.

 

 

Don't be silly, not terminating will only rarely cause problems, you would typically only see them if your install is marginal in some way (long runs, bad cables/connectors, that sort of thing)

 

The worst that would happen would be you try to install your Genie, have problems, and have to wait until you can get some terminator caps. Then you have to hope those solve the problem, it would more likely turn to be something else... You can't hurt your Genie, dish or anything else by not terminating so waiting on terminator caps to start enjoying your Genie would be ridiculous.


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#20 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 01:13 AM

I agree. Id hook it up now myself and get the terminators as soon as reasonable.


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