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Would Dish Network Really Consider Dropping ESPN?


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#26 OFFLINE   ehilbert1

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:52 PM

If it gets to exspensive I'll just drop it. Right now my wife and I can afford it. I don't mind paying for the convience our two hoppers bring. Again I will ask........ why get pissed off and let it ruin your day? It's TV!!! Why some of you let it get to you so much is beyond me. Go out and enjoy life some. Get a girlfriend or boyfriend. Go have a beer and enjoy life, Trust me it's too short and can be over in an instant.



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#27 OFFLINE   TBoneit

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 05:05 PM

Drop a channel that carries Monday Night Football and the BCS bowls? No way.

 

And CBS was probably Sure that Time Warner could not afford to be without CBS for very Long. 

 

ESPN (Disney that is, after Walt Disney) is probably thinking the same thing.

 

Start Sarcasm mode

I'm sure it will work out at least as good as the YES channel in NYC has done with Dishnetwork. Oh the total horror of no YES channel on Dish. It doesn't seem to be bothering Charley does it.

End Sarcasm mode

 

Is it possible that Sports is becoming a Niche market? You could turn on your local station any weekend and find plenty of sports, Once upon a time, that is.


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#28 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 05:09 PM

I am assuming the ratio pf prices in bulk sat and cable sales is similar in the residential world, so I'll throw this out:

 

100 bed nursing home, nice lineup of around 30 or so D* popular channels (GSN, FNC, Disc,Sci, AMC, LMN, RFD, Food, A&E, Cooking, Spike, Big10, etc.) but no ESPN package, was around $4-5/bed some years ago.  At that time, adding the ESPN set run it up to over $7/bed. 

 

Management did not spring for the ESPN set, and there were some long faces, but there have been less than 5 residents pop for their own satellite account to get them.

 

{disclaimer:  demographically, the facility is skewed towards older widows, so take that for what it is}



#29 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 05:13 PM

And CBS was probably Sure that Time Warner could not afford to be without CBS for very Long. 

 

ESPN (Disney that is, after Walt Disney) is probably thinking the same thing.

 

Start Sarcasm mode

I'm sure it will work out at least as good as the YES channel in NYC has done with Dishnetwork. Oh the total horror of no YES channel on Dish. It doesn't seem to be bothering Charley does it.

End Sarcasm mode

 

Is it possible that Sports is becoming a Niche market? You could turn on your local station any weekend and find plenty of sports, Once upon a time, that is.

CBS was right... Magically it's returned right before the NFL starts and the Fall lineup.


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#30 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 05:53 PM

CBS was right... Magically it's returned right before the NFL starts and the Fall lineup.

Yep... that's what I was going to post.  mostly summer hiatus during the CBS/Time Warner feud...  coincidentally (NOT) that they agree before this Sunday's NFL lineup!

 

As I looked at the calendar, Dish has a week or less of a window to take ESPN off the air if they wish... but honestly... I don't think that is going to happen.  The severe lack of chatter from either Dish or ESPN/Disney thus far tells me that they may have even already agreed, at least in principle, to a new contract.  Otherwise I would expect to have already seen the crawls on ESPN.

 

The cricket-chirping, tumbleweed-blowing silence seems to be a positive indicator that Dish and ESPN will be fine.


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#31 OFFLINE   Grandude

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 09:53 AM

Drop a channel that carries Monday Night Football and the BCS bowls? No way.

Monday night football should never have been moved to cable/satellite only.  A disgrace to a national Monday night tradition.


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#32 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 11:29 AM

Monday night football should never have been moved to cable/satellite only.  A disgrace to a national Monday night tradition.


The move of Monday Night Football was a sign of the times. Now we're further down the road of sports being on subscription channels with only a sampling on free broadcast television. Broadcast television does all they can to charge a fee. Including moving their games to subscription channels.
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#33 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 12:18 PM

The move of Monday Night Football was a sign of the times. Now we're further down the road of sports being on subscription channels with only a sampling on free broadcast television. Broadcast television does all they can to charge a fee. Including moving their games to subscription channels.

The players, coaches, agents, owners and their associated lawyers and agents all need to have their shiny new toys and cars and boats and planes, ya' know.

 

And the suckers, er, athletic supporters just keep feeding them coins at ever increasing rates.  It will continue until the public wakes up and says enough is enough.  No more.  That could start by supporting efforts to keep fees down by taking programming off the air during these disputes.


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#34 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 01:07 PM

The economics of "premium" entertainment can be analyzed in the cost recovery system for the "big" stars.

 

A $10+ million payment to a movie star for an appearance in a movie is recovered from voluntary theater ticket sales to fans, then from dvd and on-demand video voluntary sales, then from a premium channel like HBO from voluntary subscribers, and finally, years later, from ad supported cable/broadcast airings.

 

A $10+ million salary to an NFL star is recovered from voluntary stadium ticket sales to sports fans and simultaneously from taxing the huddled masses charging almost all American TV viewers for ESPN and from ad supported cable/broadcast airings, then from sports packages from voluntary subscribers.

 

Yes, I recognize that we all pay general fees for cable and broadcast channels, but my guess is that ad revenue supports airing live sports like NBC Sunday night football and old movies, not our fees.

 

But you don't have to share the cost for my seeing expensive stars in HBO shows and movies.

 

And I know that Charlie shares my view on this one, but like me is trapped by a system that creates a truth, justice and The American Way natural right for all Americans to receive a tax subsidy to watch expensive NFL stars beating their brains out.

 

As noted by the Wall Street Cheat Sheet:
 

The high cost of sports has long been an issue that Dish Chairman Charlie Ergen has vocally addressed. Walt Disney Co.’s (NYSE:DIS) ESPN is the most expensive of the national sports channels, and it also offers its channels as a packaged deal, which has frustrated Dish and instigated contractual disputes.

 

Though the pay-TV operator has yet to officially threaten Disney with a contract cut, it has expressed its willingness to drop Disney’s channels if need be, with Ergen maintaining, “We’re prepared to go either way.”

 

...But according to The Wall Street Journal, Dish challenges that argument by explaining that its ESPN programming charges account for more than 40 percent of its cost but add up to less than 20 percent of its viewing minutes. Therefore, Ergen believes Dish could potentially drop ESPN with insignificant backlash in the long run. But analysts like Barton Crockett disagree, saying, “No one is going to be a meaningful player in this industry without carrying ESPN.”

 

If Ergen dropped the Disney package of channels tomorrow with a clear statement that he will not allow it back without putting ESPN into the AT120+ and above tiers and the Disney channels in the AT200 and above tiers, I'd pay for a second full service connection in my house to help out. And I don't need my local ABC O&O.


Edited by phrelin, 07 September 2013 - 01:12 PM.

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#35 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 01:31 PM

Kind of ironic coming from Mr MultiMillionaire Chuckie and his ever increasing DVR fees.


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#36 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 01:51 PM

The players, coaches, agents, owners and their associated lawyers and agents all need to have their shiny new toys and cars and boats and planes, ya' know.

 

And the suckers, er, athletic supporters just keep feeding them coins at ever increasing rates.  It will continue until the public wakes up and says enough is enough.  No more.  That could start by supporting efforts to keep fees down by taking programming off the air during these disputes.

You keep feeding people in the television and movie industry. Does that make you a sucker, too?


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#37 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 02:31 PM

Your subscription to satellite and cable TV is voluntary too...  Anyone who thinks they pay too much for TV, should consider cutting back or cancelling the pay TV service.

 

Sure I wish some things cost less... but things cost what they cost... and luxury items like pay TV are things that IF they cost too much, you can cut back on them.


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#38 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 05:49 PM

Kind of ironic coming from Mr MultiMillionaire Chuckie and his ever increasing DVR fees.


Non-DVR receivers remain available. At least DVR fees are an a la carte option ... if you don't want to pay you don't have to. Just cancel the service.
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#39 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:14 AM

If Ergen dropped the Disney package of channels tomorrow with a clear statement that he will not allow it back without putting ESPN into the AT120+ and above tiers and the Disney channels in the AT200 and above tiers, I'd pay for a second full service connection in my house to help out. And I don't need my local ABC O&O.

 

It would be a serious change for Dish.  Didn't they carry BTN?  And PAC12?  And how many other sports channels have they added over the previous few years?  Dropping ESPN only makes sense if they plan to drop all of the other "dedicated" sports channels as well.  You aren't going to get a serious college football fan to subscribe to your service without ESPN, no matter how many other sports channels you carry.  And if you have to give up on seeing 3/4 tennis majors (4/4 in the near future), what good does the Tennis Channel do you?

 

I'm not saying Dish couldn't change direction and become a sports-free provider.  And they could probably charge a boatload less for everything else.  But it would not be a small change.



#40 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:46 AM

 

If Ergen dropped the Disney package of channels tomorrow with a clear statement that he will not allow it back without putting ESPN into the AT120+ and above tiers and the Disney channels in the AT200 and above tiers, I'd pay for a second full service connection in my house to help out. And I don't need my local ABC O&O.

 

It would be a serious change for Dish.  Didn't they carry BTN?  And PAC12?  And how many other sports channels have they added over the previous few years?  Dropping ESPN only makes sense if they plan to drop all of the other "dedicated" sports channels as well.  You aren't going to get a serious college football fan to subscribe to your service without ESPN, no matter how many other sports channels you carry.  And if you have to give up on seeing 3/4 tennis majors (4/4 in the near future), what good does the Tennis Channel do you?

 

I'm not saying Dish couldn't change direction and become a sports-free provider.  And they could probably charge a boatload less for everything else.  But it would not be a small change.

 

What I'm suggesting would not in any way be a change of direction. For instance (emphasis added):

 

DISH Fans Score With Pac-12 Networks

ENGLEWOOD, CO and SAN FRANCISCO, CA -- (Marketwire) -- 09/08/12 --

...Pac-12 Networks is available to all DISH customers as a free preview for a limited time. It is included in America's Top 120+ package and above for customers in Pac-12 territory (which includes the six states with Pac-12 schools) and available nationwide in the Multi-Sport Pack for $9 per month.

 

 

As indicated in the news release, we AT120 subscribers do not have to pay for the Pac-12 games. For $10 a month I can add the "+" to get the AT120+ package. A charge of $10 a month for sports seems reasonable. And a charge of $15 for it with ESPN seems even more reasonable if it means that a household on a budget, without paying for the "plus" or the ESPN $5, can get most popular channels and choose to use the $15 for HBO or set it aside for the kids college fund or retirement. As I see it, that $5 is a tax going to overpaid NFL players or, from another point of view, being used to provide a "sports stamps" program akin to food stamps for sports addicts.


Edited by phrelin, 08 September 2013 - 09:49 AM.

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#41 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:12 AM

Back in the 80's The Disney Channel was  a Premium channel on cable. They should try that again.


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#42 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:29 AM

ESPN has proved its value over the past 34 years (since 9/7/1979). Whether that value is the asking price they have going in to negotiations or not is a good question for the negotiators. It is one of the few channels that does not have to worry about being arbitrarily dropped. But they should NOT be given a free ride and get renewed at any cost.

DISH is negotiating on our behalf ... I certainly don't want their negotiations to start with "ok, where do we send the check". Sometimes the threat of allowing a contract to expire and taking down a channel needs to be followed by the reality.
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#43 OFFLINE   dstout

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:26 PM

Do you really mean that? I think DISH is concerned with how much money they can take from me. 

 


DISH is negotiating on our behalf ...



#44 OFFLINE   bnewt

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:41 PM

Non-DVR receivers remain available. At least DVR fees are an a la carte option ... if you don't want to pay you don't have to. Just cancel the service.

everyone knows this option is available, but to suggest that dish is negotiating for the consumer, is just a farce.  They may say that to save face, but the end customer has no idea what dish or any other provider pays to their "vendors".  We can only take what we are told in good faith.  Dish is in business to make money, but during this worst economic period since the 30's, help out the consumer.  But no, they continue to maintain their profit margin while many people struggle to keep their homes after loosing jobs.


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#45 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:07 PM


DISH is negotiating on our behalf ....

Dish is negotiating on Dish's behalf.

 

We're just the pawns tossing them coins.


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#46 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:06 PM

We can only take what we are told in good faith.


Nope. You and others are free NOT to accept what you are told. People who already hate DISH for one reason or another are more likely not to accept what they are told. People who look at the numbers will see the truth.

Dish is in business to make money, but during this worst economic period since the 30's, help out the consumer.  But no, they continue to maintain their profit margin while many people struggle to keep their homes after loosing jobs.


DISH is not a charity ... they are not responsible for "loose" jobs or lost homes. If the price of their service causes someone to lose their home it is someone with lousy priorities. Pay television is OPTIONAL. One is not required to subscribe.

As far as a profit margin ... do you know how much that is? Compared to DirecTV or other carriers? I suspect even if they made only a penny per customer per month in profit that would be too much for some people - people who expect DISH to be a charity.

And yet people *DEMAND* that DISH carry expensive networks such as ESPN while keeping the prices down. They threaten to leave if a channel is off for a day yet they don't like the rate increase that comes from paying providers. One should be glad they are not the ones making decisions under such constraints! It is so much easier to hurl stones on the Internet. :)
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#47 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:42 PM

Truth be told... Dish is negotiating for US and for THEM...

 

Dish wants to make money...  they can best make money by charging more than they spend :)  How can they accomplish a greater margin?

 

They can raise rates on customers (US)...  They can keep cost down for the business (THEM).

 

So...  every channel that they haggle down to a lower price than the channel wants... is more potential money in Dish's pocket either because they get to keep that margin the next time they raise customer rates OR because it drives away less customers the next time they raise rates.

 

Nobody said Dish wanted to keep channel costs down to be nice to us... just that they want to keep channel costs down for us...  keeping those costs down for us ultimately helps Dish be a better company.


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#48 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:54 AM

I suppose my view is in the minority, but I believe Charlie takes some things personally and there have been hints in that regard about Disney after the lawsuit loss over HD. Charlie's not an idiot. If the deal offered by the Disney corporate suits is reasonable, Charlie isn't going to reject it. But he tested the "world will end" theory if he lost the Disney HD. Guess what - not even a noticeable blip in subscribers. I know there is posturing in this from the Wall Street Cheat Sheet:

The high cost of sports has long been an issue that Dish Chairman Charlie Ergen has vocally addressed. ...According to The Wall Street Journal, Dish challenges that argument by explaining that its ESPN programming charges account for more than 40 percent of its cost but add up to less than 20 percent of its viewing minutes. Therefore, Ergen believes Dish could potentially drop ESPN with insignificant backlash in the long run. But analysts like Barton Crockett disagree, saying, “No one is going to be a meaningful player in this industry without carrying ESPN.”

But in the past those who disregard Charlie's views thinking they are dealing with people like the suits at Comcast who aren't personally invested in the outcome - those who think it's just business - have had to learn the hard way. Dish is negotiating for Charlie, not for Dish the corporation or for you and me. In the past, except for the occasional personal preference like the Tennis Channel, Charlie's opinions come closer to mine than those of any overpaid corporate suit in the business. That's why I've never seriously considered any other provider since I started using Echostar C-band equipment in 1988.

Edited by phrelin, 09 September 2013 - 01:55 AM.

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#49 OFFLINE   Chihuahua

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:14 PM

The first major carrier that drops ESPN could end up becoming a trailblazer in the battle against the rising costs of carrying sports networks-----or end up committing economic suicide.



#50 OFFLINE   Curtis0620

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:53 AM

Let's say that ESPN/DISNEY agree to sell their channels al a carte to DISH.  So for let's say $25 a month (because of less subs taking the package), you get ESPN/DISNEY and the other ABC owned channels.  Your base package goes down $10 a month.  Is that a good deal?

 

 

So for all these channels included in a base package with Directv you would pay $10-$15 less per month.  What happens?


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