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Would Dish Network Really Consider Dropping ESPN?


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#76 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:50 PM

I have to agree I have seen no postering from either side, a good sign. This is one time I think DISH is at the disadvantage, and another reason I think the deal is all but done. DISH will just have to pay more than they really want to because I don't see it as a viable option to have ESPN dark with Monday night football, and even just in general. Of all the sports channels, I see the ESPN's being the least likely to be separated from the regular packages, so unless a carrier is willing to tell Disney no and lose ESPN and perhaps the Disney family of channels, things are not going to change.

 

(Lol posted at the same time and said pretty much what James Long did)


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#77 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:12 PM

It's all about the cards and Charlie does play his hand well. The thing is apparently he can successfully bluff and he just despises losing. It's personal to him. But the stakes are high for the Disney suits. And it's not just ESPN. Can you imagine what it would mean if Dish turned off all ESPN, all Disney channels, ABC Family, and ABC O&O (ABC in the major markets) and lost fewer than 8%of its subscribers over 2 years because all it's packages could be $13 cheaper than every other provider?

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#78 OFFLINE   brucegrr

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:59 PM

Put ESPN and ESPN 2 in the top 250 or in the Multi-Sport package. I never watch them. If sports fans want them, make them pay for them. Why should all consumers be forced into a big price increase for these two channels that they may or may not watch. Other than Monday Night Football, I don't even know what is on ESPN.


This argument works the other way to. There are a lot channels I don't watch. Why should I pay for them? I suspect if I added up the carriage cost for all these channels their cost would exceed the ABC/ESPN cost.

I will agree on one point. Watching TV is getting expensive. How to combat this is THE issue, IMO.


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#79 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 12:17 AM

This argument works the other way to. There are a lot channels I don't watch. Why should I pay for them? I suspect if I added up the carriage cost for all these channels their cost would exceed the ABC/ESPN cost.


The average channel isn't anywhere near ESPN's price ... It takes quite a few 20c-30c channels to get up to the $5 of ESPN. You could get there quicker if the channels you didn't watch were popular network TV affiliates or other major sports channels such as the Fox Sports regionals.

All of the other channels would exceed ESPN ... they have not quite reached 50% of programming costs, although with all of the ABC/Disney channels included they are a respectable portion of what DISH pays providers to provide your television service.

I agree that the "let me not subscribe to ESPN" argument works for any channel ... but the "you can't sell our content a la carte" and "give us the tier we want or we walk" arguments from the content providers also apply. The less popular content providers may be told to take a hike - so they agree to a la carte and/or higher tiers. But the big ones tend to get the better placements. They may allow some of their less popular channels be carried in a higher tier but their main channels must be available to nearly every subscriber ... or they walk.

When I first subscribed to DISH 10 years ago the packages were AT60/AT120/AT180/AEP. Now we have AT120/AT200/AT250/AEP. While some of the lower tier additions were music channels much of the increase in channels in the lower packages came from the higher packages. Channels that negotiated their way down to the lowest tier. The tier that most channels with self respect want to be in - delivered to nearly every DISH customer. (BTW: The price of the lower packages has been adjusted accordingly.)

While regional sports remains a second tier offering (currently AT200 for $15 more or the special AT120+ for $10 more than AT120) it remains (according to DISH public relations) "our most popular programming package". Most people are willing to pay the $15 more for the sports and other channels AT200 provides. It would be nice if there could be an AT200 and AT200+ split where one could get the "other channels" without the regional sports but I doubt that DISH would sell AT200 without sports for AT120+$5. And it still wouldn't get pricy ESPN out of the base package.
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#80 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:35 AM

I think they'd lose more subscribers over dropping Disney/ABC Family, et al.

 

The athletic supporters would make more noise in their usual unruly and disruptive manner, but there are plenty of other ways for them to get their lockerroom peeping fix. 

 

Short of buying the DVDs or using one of the streaming services if you have a capable web connection, there aren't too many other ways to seem the family and kids programming.

 

The two programming groups REALLY need to be separated.


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#81 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:42 AM

Put ESPN and ESPN 2 in the top 250 or in the Multi-Sport package.  I never watch them.  If sports fans want them, make them pay for them.  Why should all consumers be forced into a big price increase for these two channels that they may or may not watch.  Other than Monday Night Football, I don't even know what is on ESPN.

You can bet channel placement is part of all of this.   But as a practical matter do not expect ESPN to give on this.     ESPN was early to the game and its not backing out.

 

Under your scenario WHY should I get Nickolodean, Fox News, Comedy, etc.?   I don't watch that stuff, but I need to pay for this crap.



#82 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:14 AM

It's all about the cards and Charlie does play his hand well. The thing is apparently he can successfully bluff and he just despises losing. It's personal to him. But the stakes are high for the Disney suits. And it's not just ESPN. Can you imagine what it would mean if Dish turned off all ESPN, all Disney channels, ABC Family, and ABC O&O (ABC in the major markets) and lost fewer than 8%of its subscribers over 2 years because all it's packages could be $13 cheaper than every other provider?

I wouldn't miss anything. I really don't watch any of those channels.


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#83 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:42 AM

Under your scenario WHY should I get Nickolodean, Fox News, Comedy, etc.?   I don't watch that stuff, but I need to pay for this crap.

Again, as noted above, those are pennies.  A small fraction of one percent of the total monthly bill, while ESPN alone is about 10% or more.  If ESPN were reasonably priced at .50 or maybe even $1.00, no one would care.  When it's somewhere between $5.00 and $10.00, it matters a lot.


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#84 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 02:34 PM

Still missing the point.  IF everything was separated (the only "fair" way to do it) then ESPN would still find subscribers willing to pay its price moreso than those niche channels that will have to increase from their "pennies" to be viable.

 

You don't want to pay for ESPN... I don't want to pay for 20 other channels that you like... it's a wash.  We all agreed to this marketing method YEARS ago... by signing up for DBS or cable or whatever service we pay for.  IF the model isn't working for you, then unsubscribe and look elsewhere.  IF enough people disconnect, then you might see some changes... but by and large most people paying for their TV are accepting the contract.

 

Do I wish TV was cheaper?  Yes.  I wish EVERYTHING were cheaper... but as of right now... the dollars I pay per month, averaged out per day and per movie/tv show/whatever I watch is still one of the best entertainment deals out there.

 

I could only see a handful of movies OR attend a few concerts OR rent/buy a handful of movies or TV shows via other methods per month for the same money I spend now to get more than I can sometimes find the time to sit and watch.  It's hard to argue I'm not getting a good deal right now.


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#85 OFFLINE   brucegrr

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:42 PM

Still missing the point.  IF everything was separated (the only "fair" way to do it) then ESPN would still find subscribers willing to pay its price moreso than those niche channels that will have to increase from their "pennies" to be viable.
 
You don't want to pay for ESPN... I don't want to pay for 20 other channels that you like... it's a wash.  We all agreed to this marketing method YEARS ago... by signing up for DBS or cable or whatever service we pay for.  IF the model isn't working for you, then unsubscribe and look elsewhere.  IF enough people disconnect, then you might see some changes... but by and large most people paying for their TV are accepting the contract.
 
Do I wish TV was cheaper?  Yes.  I wish EVERYTHING were cheaper... but as of right now... the dollars I pay per month, averaged out per day and per movie/tv show/whatever I watch is still one of the best entertainment deals out there.
 
I could only see a handful of movies OR attend a few concerts OR rent/buy a handful of movies or TV shows via other methods per month for the same money I spend now to get more than I can sometimes find the time to sit and watch.  It's hard to argue I'm not getting a good deal right now.


Like you, I wish TV was cheaper. But, I also put the cost in context. We subscribe to HBO which costs the equivelent of my wife and I going to a movie once a month. The price we pay per month for Dish is half of what we would pay for my wife and I to attend an NFL game or an Ohio State football game. (And it is likely our seats would not give us as good of a view as the TV)

I am disabled, and my life is dominated by pain and debility. TV is a wonderful diversion for me. My wife and I love to watch TV, especially since we spent many years in a religion that frowned on watching TV. We are seeing movies for the first time that "normal" people saw 25 years ago. :) for us, Dish provides a good value.

I am an avid sports fan and I watch ESPN. However, if ESPN was not on Dish, outside of Monday Night football and a few college football/basketball games, I wouldn't miss it. Our kids are all grown now, so ABC Family, Disney, etc are no longer watched in our home. We would, however, miss ABC.

This debate will continue to spin, with each of us having our own opinion about what programming is important to us. Makes for great discussions, but like with politics and religion, rarely are opinions changed. :)
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#86 OFFLINE   Link

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:56 PM

You can bet channel placement is part of all of this.   But as a practical matter do not expect ESPN to give on this.     ESPN was early to the game and its not backing out.

 

Under your scenario WHY should I get Nickolodean, Fox News, Comedy, etc.?   I don't watch that stuff, but I need to pay for this crap.

Those channels alone aren't driving up the cost of the package as a whole in the way ESPN is.  If it is going to cost as much as it does and cause a price hike to every package, then they need to come up with other options for the people that want it.


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#87 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 09:11 PM

IF the model isn't working for you, then unsubscribe and look elsewhere.


If there was a good elsewhere that would be a better argument. My sister talks about cutting the cord to save money but she can't find everything she wants elsewhere. Even by using various vendors. Many of the vendors could be considered questionable as far as legality issues. I don't mind paying the providers something for their content but I do not want to pay a vendor who is providing content that THEY should be paying for unless they pay the provider. Others may not care and see not paying the provider/content owner as their way of "sticking it to the man". But I digress.

It is nice to have a provider where I do not have to wonder if they are legally delivering content. Sure DISH illegally delivered four HD ABC/ESPN channels a few years ago ... but that was more of a misunderstanding and they had permission to deliver the content in SD to the customers who received it in HD. I can't say that about all the alternate vendors.

 

Those channels alone aren't driving up the cost of the package as a whole in the way ESPN is.  If it is going to cost as much as it does and cause a price hike to every package, then they need to come up with other options for the people that want it.


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#88 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 04:34 AM

Those channels alone aren't driving up the cost of the package as a whole in the way ESPN is.  If it is going to cost as much as it does and cause a price hike to every package, then they need to come up with other options for the people that want it.

 

I understand your argument, but you'll also need to consider mine.  Almost all of the channels I or my family watch are in AT120.  I have to get AT200 to get NFL Network, BTN, The Hub and BBC America.  You can't tell me those 4 channels are $15/month.  And I have to get AT250 to get 1 channel, but a very important one to me: The Tennis Channel.  That's 5 channels total that add $25/month to my bill.  Which puts them in the ESPN pricing range.  Sure there's 125 other channels that I'm getting, but I never watch them, so why should I have to pay for them?

 

Sports programming is the #1 reason I have pay television.  There isn't anything else on pay TV I couldn't find elsewhere or substitute elsewhere for a lot less $$$.  



#89 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:11 AM

Like you, I wish TV was cheaper. But, I also put the cost in context. We subscribe to HBO which costs the equivelent of my wife and I going to a movie once a month. The price we pay per month for Dish is half of what we would pay for my wife and I to attend an NFL game or an Ohio State football game. (And it is likely our seats would not give us as good of a view as the TV)

I am disabled, and my life is dominated by pain and debility. TV is a wonderful diversion for me. My wife and I love to watch TV, especially since we spent many years in a religion that frowned on watching TV. We are seeing movies for the first time that "normal" people saw 25 years ago. :) for us, Dish provides a good value.

I am an avid sports fan and I watch ESPN. However, if ESPN was not on Dish, outside of Monday Night football and a few college football/basketball games, I wouldn't miss it. Our kids are all grown now, so ABC Family, Disney, etc are no longer watched in our home. We would, however, miss ABC.

This debate will continue to spin, with each of us having our own opinion about what programming is important to us. Makes for great discussions, but like with politics and religion, rarely are opinions changed. :)

I'm disabled as well, but I watch The History Channel, A&E ETC. If I didn't have I'd be board. Like you I have lots of pain. 


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#90 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:29 PM

Again, as noted above, those are pennies.  A small fraction of one percent of the total monthly bill, while ESPN alone is about 10% or more.  If ESPN were reasonably priced at .50 or maybe even $1.00, no one would care.  When it's somewhere between $5.00 and $10.00, it matters a lot.

Why is it any different?   As a practical matter you will lose any argument about forcing ESPN ala carte and none of the others.   Sorry, I think most of what is put out by Viacom is trash tv.   In the aggregate they command some good dollars....maybe not per channel.



#91 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:33 AM

The fact that we do not see any of the screen crawls right now telling us of a potential loss of ESPN is very encouraging......



#92 OFFLINE   Athlon646464

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:10 AM

Dish-Disney TV contract dispute has many customers on edge
 

Contract negotiations between Dish Network and the Walt Disney Co. look to be as cantankerous as the dustup last month between Time Warner Cable and CBS.
 
Things are not going smoothly for the two entertainment heavyweights with their contract set to expire Sept. 30.
 
The talks stalled last week, according to the financial website seekingalpha.com, and Dish co-founder and Chairman Charles W. Ergen was taking a hard line as early as last month.
 

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#93 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:37 AM

 

If that happens, Dish customers would be without ESPN’s huge menu of sports offerings and the Pac-12 network while college and professional football are kicking into high gear and the baseball playoffs are close at hand.

What's P12 Network have to do with it?


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#94 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:48 AM

Burbank-based Disney is a huge content provider, owning both the Disney/ABC Television Group and the sports juggernaut ESPN. The company also owns eight ABC stations located in Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Houston, Chicago, Fresno and Raleigh-Durham, N.C. Since September 2010 Disney has negotiated seven contracts without facing a content blackout period.

Fresno really?

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#95 OFFLINE   lwilli201

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:29 AM

Would dropping ESPN be a bad thing?  I see a multitude of post decrying the cost of ESPN to people that could give a flip about sports.  Subscribers would have a real choice, to pay or not to pay for sports (If Dish reduces there package prices accordingly).  There would be a great amount of churn but I doubt that in the end the numbers of subs would change that much.  With the freed capacity Dish could also add a multitude of content that Directv will not have.  At the cost of content today, these companies need to target their audience instead of trying to satisfy everyone.  This may have the effect of drawing subs from cable that are tired of paying for sports channels that they do not watch.   Another side effect of Dish dropping ESPN may force ESPN to go a la cart, but that may be a stretch.


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#96 OFFLINE   brucegrr

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:37 AM

Why would losing ESPN affect the baseball playoffs? The playoffs are on TBS and Fox.


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#97 ONLINE   Curtis0620

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:43 AM

Would dropping ESPN be a bad thing?  I see a multitude of post decrying the cost of ESPN to people that could give a flip about sports.  Subscribers would have a real choice, to pay or not to pay for sports (If Dish reduces there package prices accordingly).  There would be a great amount of churn but I doubt that in the end the numbers of subs would change that much.  With the freed capacity Dish could also add a multitude of content that Directv will not have.  At the cost of content today, these companies need to target their audience instead of trying to satisfy everyone.  This may have the effect of drawing subs from cable that are tired of paying for sports channels that they do not watch.   Another side effect of Dish dropping ESPN may force ESPN to go a la cart, but that may be a stretch.

Can you enlighten me on what this multitude of content is?


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#98 OFFLINE   Athlon646464

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:48 AM

What's P12 Network have to do with it?

 

 

Fresno really?

 

 

Why would losing ESPN affect the baseball playoffs? The playoffs are on TBS and Fox.

 

I simply quoted the LA Daily News article.  

 

The link to the full story is in my post.  Gregory Wilcox's (the reporter who wrote the story) email address is at the end of the article.


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#99 OFFLINE   tsmacro

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:50 AM

Another release with no updated info or direct quotes from either party that weren't from last month. The only source we have that anything has changed is apparently someone at seekingalpha.com seems to think talks have stalled, but no reason given as to why they think that or where they're getting that info because everything else in that article is just regurgitated from what we've already seen. Until I see a release from either Dish or Disney confirming any of this I remain dubious.




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#100 OFFLINE   lwilli201

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:52 AM

Can you enlighten me on what this multitude of content is?

OK, maybe a poor choice of words, but it would free up some space, but that is not the real focus of my post.


Edited by lwilli201, 23 September 2013 - 10:53 AM.

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