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Would Dish Network Really Consider Dropping ESPN?


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#151 OFFLINE   Athlon646464

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 04:42 AM

^^^

What he said.  Charter is my only alternative to satellite.  They are horrible with their TV service.  I have their internet and can say it has been fast and reliable.  When I had their TV service they seemed to be about 5 years behind everyone else with their channel lineup (HD) and technology (DVR).


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#152 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 06:35 AM

I like to go back and forth between games and apparently with the Hopper, when you come back to a game you have to start at beginning and fast forward to where you were in the game IF the game is still in progress.  Games that have finished like yesterdays games do have a Resume choice but if the games are still in progress you either have to join the game live or stop the recording.  They say there are convoluted ways to do it but Direct TV was soooo easy.

Yeah, it's a bit counter-intuitive to use the PiP "Swap" button to switch between games.  And it was very easy for me to switch between games with my DirecTV HR22-100: Press a button and pray the DVR "hears" it.  Wait 10 seconds while nothing happens, then press the button again, only to have it immediately register 2 button presses.



#153 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:13 AM

Why?  I would not be one bit surprised if someone at some point dumps dish without them agreeing to not using auto hop.  I have said that from the beginning.  Courts can do what they want, but in the end, the channels have the power to say pound sand.  They will leverage it for more money.

 

I agree with the "leverage" concept. If I were Disney, I'd be demanding an extra two bucks "prime-time fee" for every Hopper-equipped subscriber who has a local ABC channel, to be split with the local affiliate, in return for signing whatever agreement on everything else has been reached and for dropping the lawsuit. If Dish agreed to even 20¢ the first year with gradual increases to whatever, you'd set a precedent for sharing in DVR fees.


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#154 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:02 AM

It is not a fee that DISH would agree to ... and eventually ESPN would find itself in the same position as The Weather Channel did a couple of years ago when they decided that they didn't need DISH subscribers. Losing 14 million subscribers.

The Weather Channel being in a less protected position since anyone can give a weather forecast ... ESPN holds rights to content that cannot be retransmitted by other networks. But the concept of ESPN's executive team waking up one morning and finding out they had lost 14 million homes is something that cannot be ignored.

ESPN is already at it's lowest subscriber level since 2008 ... only 97.9 million subscribers for ESPN and ESPN2 in July 2013. That is about a million less than one year prior. They are generally losing subscribers due to cord cutting, but a million less people paying ~$5.40 for ESPN and 68c for ESPN2 adds up.
(Figures from whatyoupayforsports.com)

ESPN gave up NASCAR (effective 2015) and there are rumors that they might pay their way out of their current contract so they would not be forced to spend the money to cover the sport in 2014. There may be more sports that ESPN will need to shed to stay in business. Be prepared to watch ESPN change their focus to sports that either have a high dollar return or are cheap to cover. Or see them fill their hours with replays and studio shows that are cheaper than sending a production team out to cover a sport.

ESPN (and other ABC/Disney networks) need subscribers. I don't see them throwing away 14 million subscribers over the Hopper. Plus it is not the best PR move ... "We refuse to sign a deal with DISH because we want to force subscribers to see our commercials?" And if DISH agreed to give ABC 20c to allow commercials on ABC to be skipped you can be sure that CBS, NBC and Fox will be next in line with their hand out for 25c, 30c and a dollar. It is a bad precedent to set.
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#155 OFFLINE   jsk

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 02:48 PM

ESPN wouldn't be throwing away 14 million subscribers because many of them would leave Dish and go to another provider.  

 

I would not leave and would be happy if they dropped ESPN & Disney if they lowered my bill.  However, I don't see Dish dropping ESPN because they will lose too many subscribers.


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#156 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 05:56 PM

Keep in mind that not only are the ESPN and Disney groups of cable channels involved plus ABC Family, but at stake here is ABC owned and operated broadcast stations which serve 23% of the television homes or 26 million homes. ESPN may be important, but losing ABC for maybe 20% of Dish customers could be a problem for Dish.


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#157 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:45 PM

ESPN wouldn't be throwing away 14 million subscribers because many of them would leave Dish and go to another provider.


How many? We've been reading for years about how people want an ESPN free programming choice. DISH could become that choice.

I would not leave and would be happy if they dropped ESPN & Disney if they lowered my bill.  However, I don't see Dish dropping ESPN because they will lose too many subscribers.


Do not be surprised if ESPN and the related channels are off for a month or so. I hope there is no gap (it is chase season for NASCAR) but a lot of negotiations end up with gaps as the parties figure out just how much each other are worth. And then a resolution comes and all is well.
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#158 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:31 AM

I think if DIsh drops espn, they should just drop all sports only channels then.  Logic there is at least some of most the major sports are on espn anymore, aside from the nhl. And if people want all the games...



#159 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:51 AM

Keep in mind that not only are the ESPN and Disney groups of cable channels involved plus ABC Family, but at stake here is ABC owned and operated broadcast stations which serve 23% of the television homes or 26 million homes. ESPN may be important, but losing ABC for maybe 20% of Dish customers could be a problem for Dish.

Not for me.


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#160 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 05:56 AM

ESPN wouldn't be throwing away 14 million subscribers because many of them would leave Dish and go to another provider.  

 

I would not leave and would be happy if they dropped ESPN & Disney if they lowered my bill.  However, I don't see Dish dropping ESPN because they will lose too many subscribers.

 

Actually, ESPN might be throwing away more than 14 million subscribers.  Because studies have shown that 50% of households never watch ESPN.  And many people who don't watch ESPN are just like you: they would be happy to not pay for ESPN.  So while the ESPN fans would leave Dish in droves, Dish might see an increase in customers as those people who don't want ESPN flock to the provider.  There'd be a churn period as people who are locked in contracts would hesitate to switch, and the ABC O&O does muddle the math a little, but it could be a smart move for Dish to differentiate themselves.



#161 OFFLINE   tommiet

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 05:58 PM

Is ESPN gone yet? I'm hoping for more shopping and/or paint drying channels.


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#162 OFFLINE   Jason Whiddon

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:52 AM

 

  So while the ESPN fans would leave Dish in droves, Dish might see an increase in customers as those people who don't want ESPN flock to the provider.

Some of you are so far from reality when Dish has a dispute.

 

First, they aint working for you.

Second, you arent going to save money.

Third, people arent going to leave Directv of Cable to go to Dish because they dont have a channel.

 

 

Get real.


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#163 OFFLINE   pmjones

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:46 PM

Some of you are so far from reality when Dish has a dispute.

 

First, they aint working for you.

Second, you arent going to save money.

Third, people arent going to leave Directv of Cable to go to Dish because they dont have a channel.

 

 

Get real.

 

I love Dish, but I have to agree with this post.  I can't imagine customers leaving a provider to go to Dish because they break with Disney.

 

Bottom line ~ this is going to get worked out and (I believe) we will see the entire Disney/ESPN family in HD.  Why do I think this?  Because that would make everyone the most money.  It really is that simple.



#164 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 03:48 PM

Third, people arent going to leave Directv of Cable to go to Dish because they dont have a channel.


If it saves them money they will. People chose to subscribe to DISH instead of DirecTV because DISH had the AT120 channel package that does not include regional sports and about three dozen other channels. DirecTV eventually responded by introducing their own budget package (Entertainment).

BTW: Anyone who thinks DISH will immediately lose their 14 million customers to DirecTV or other providers should ESPN be dropped needs a reality check.
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#165 OFFLINE   bwest602

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 05:34 PM

For some reason this evening I no longer show a network logo in the Guide for any of the ESPN channels, the Disney channels or ABC Family--all the other channels are fine (I have the everything package w/ Blockbuster@Home).  They are blank on both Hoppers and both Joeys.  The schedule appears just fine, just missing the logos. Anyone else having the same issue?  It's not a sign of something coming I hope.  



#166 OFFLINE   CeeWoo

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:06 PM


BTW: Anyone who thinks DISH will immediately lose their 14 million customers to DirecTV or other providers should ESPN be dropped needs a reality check.

After 1 I know of, I don't care how many others might drop Dish ;)



#167 OFFLINE   bnewt

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:18 PM

well, I would likely be leaving.  I am an avid sports fan & watch ESPN daily, especially during basketball.  Loosing ESPN would be the last straw............so tired of all of the disputes in the name of saving the subscriber money..........then Dish raises their fees


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#168 OFFLINE   david_jr

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 07:55 PM

For some reason this evening I no longer show a network logo in the Guide for any of the ESPN channels, the Disney channels or ABC Family--all the other channels are fine (I have the everything package w/ Blockbuster@Home). They are blank on both Hoppers and both Joeys. The schedule appears just fine, just missing the logos. Anyone else having the same issue? It's not a sign of something coming I hope.


Same here on the logos. Could be bad but could also be good. Hard to know for sure.


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#169 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:28 PM

Same here on the logos. Could be bad but could also be good. Hard to know for sure.


It is "interesting" to note that the only channels in my guide that are missing logos at this time are the ESPNs, Disney, ABC Family and SoapNet. Things that make you go hmmmmm ....

Get me to midnight Friday (the end of the Nationwide race). Sorry for anything others might miss if darkness comes.
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#170 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:46 AM

Some of you are so far from reality when Dish has a dispute.

 

First, they aint working for you.

Second, you arent going to save money.

Third, people arent going to leave Directv of Cable to go to Dish because they dont have a channel.

 

First, they are working for us.  But not only for us.  As a middleman, they have to make both sides happy or they stop being the middleman.  It's a warped and twisted relationship that allows the companies that produce content to charge more than they could if they were selling direct to customers.  But if Dish stops making its customers happy, they will stop being a company.

 

I believe Dish could drop the price of their package significantly if they dropped ESPN.  And I think they would have to.  Otherwise, the people who don't like paying for ESPN would have no incentive to stay or switch to Dish.  If the cost to Dish per subscriber is really as high as some claim, they could get an incredible cost advantage over their competition by dropping the price.  They wouldn't do it because they want to make less money.  They'd do it because sometimes the way to make the most money is to charge the lowest price.

 

You are correct that people won't switch to Dish just because they don't have a channel.  But they will switch to Dish if it saves them $15/month compared to their alternatives.  See argument above for why Dish would be able to charge less, and why they would want to.

 

Dish won't drop the price if this is just a contract dispute.  If they intend to reach an agreement, the price will have to stay up so that they can maintain profitability after the content returns.  But if they decide that they don't want ESPN at any price, then they can both drop the channel and the price.  And then their advertising will go into high gear to attract customers to a service where "you don't have to pay for ESPN."  And you can "save $15/month on our most popular package compared to DirecTV."  It's a message that would play well with a large portion of the population.



#171 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:47 AM

For some reason this evening I no longer show a network logo in the Guide for any of the ESPN channels, the Disney channels or ABC Family--all the other channels are fine (I have the everything package w/ Blockbuster@Home).  

 

The logos are there for me this morning.



#172 OFFLINE   david_jr

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:42 AM

Hey mine are back too.  How do we read this now?  I'm so confused.  Hey at least there's something interesting going on in the world of Satellite, it has been a bit boring for a while since the newness of HWS wore off.



#173 OFFLINE   pmjones

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:28 AM

Hey mine are back too.  How do we read this now?  I'm so confused.  Hey at least there's something interesting going on in the world of Satellite, it has been a bit boring for a while since the newness of HWS wore off.

 

The logos have been on and off during the last few weeks.  First happened a few weeks ago, I believe.

 

Not sure what to make of it, either.  I'm a little surprised this has dragged on to mid-October.  Original contract expired on 9/30.

 

I think we all know what we want - ESPN and Disney family in HD (ESPNU, ABC Family, etc.) plus any channels we don't have (e.g. Disney Jr for the kids) without having to pay more.  :grin:



#174 OFFLINE   Joe Tylman

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 12:10 PM

Just an observation. ESPN wouldn't lose 14 million customers. That number includes commercial accounts as well. Without knowing pure numbers let's say that the formula accounts for 1 million. After you reduce the number to 13 million you then have to take into account the people who don't have ESPN. Given my lack of knowledge with all of their packages as well as the international side of the house let's assume that it's about 10% so 1.3 million. That takes us down to 11.7 million subs. That number is still a heft amount in itself. Then you have to do the loss factor of cancellations as well as those who wouldn't sign up anymore. This is where opinion will really sink in but I think it's easy to say that the attrition rate would be about 1.7% per week it was off averaged over a month and then steadily increasing after 12 weeks. Charlie knows this level of churn will happen and he knows that even if they go dark for a day there will be a significantly higher level of churn as people won't be willing to take it on faith it won't happen again. 

 

On the flip side this would not make DISH go out of business like some have said. Even if they went to 7 million subs they would still be a solvent company they would just have to decrease their workforce and spending appropriately. They would have significantly lower acquisitions so their SAC payout would be very small leading them to be more cash positive even with reduced revenue once things settled down.

 

With all of that said neither side wants the channels to go dark and I don't believe this will be the negotiation where Charlie tests the waters with it. We all knew the skipping commercials feature would cost him in the long run and this is just the first of many battles over it.


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#175 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:55 AM

It is "interesting" to note that the only channels in my guide that are missing logos at this time are the ESPNs, Disney, ABC Family and SoapNet. Things that make you go hmmmmm ....

Get me to midnight Friday (the end of the Nationwide race). Sorry for anything others might miss if darkness comes.

Is Soapnet still on?


Edited by Paul Secic, 12 October 2013 - 10:09 AM.

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