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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Superstations going away Sept19th- get grandfathered now


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#101 OFFLINE   sharonmu

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 01:01 PM

We all had the option to buy ... but it was not advertised that the option would go away.
DISH informed their retailers. Some of the retailers informed the Internet.
It was short notice but we had a thread here for almost two weeks.

We still don't know the long term future for Superstations. DISH is not required to offer them and other providers don't. Perhaps this is just a way of stopping people from subscribing before the channels are removed completely as superstations. I do not expect them to last forever. And advertising "sign up now while you still can" for something that is going away completely would be considered misleading.

I know this. That's even what i said on dish. This place has better news then dish network.  But i didn't find out about this place til the 20th Its horrible dish's site. Doesn't give anyone news before happening They should be paying you all for this great site. MUCH BETTER THEN DISH EVER WAS. What i don't understand is why all american direct. On the 28th. I'll have all the major networks but no option for a extra CW network. Directv has 2 CW"s east & west. I had it plus the CBS E&W. and was told don't ever remove these you won't get them back. And i told them i prefered the superstations. The thing i guess that i liked about the superstations. Even though now there's alot of mirrors of the same shows. At least if you miss one time. you can have another option to watch it. I'm almost wondering if there scared that its going to get like The distant nets we're that they would have to remove them all if its due to congress. We'll the government is closed how would they know if a customer service rep gave them to us. Sharon


Edited by sharonmu, 13 October 2013 - 01:06 PM.


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#102 OFFLINE   sharonmu

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 01:04 PM

Also one more thing If your in a small town and you got 2 different locals. Cincy & Lexington if i was with the cable can you get 2 different Local Stations Like from lexington & Cincinatti. If i pay 6.00 more if i could i would forget All american. Let me know if this is something that can be done. sharon



#103 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 09:21 PM

It cannot be done under current laws. Superstations are still legal, but getting out of market stations is only permitted if your in market affiliates of those stations give permission.
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#104 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:11 PM

I know this. That's even what i said on dish. This place has better news then dish network. But i didn't find out about this place til the 20th Its horrible dish's site. Doesn't give anyone news before happening They should be paying you all for this great site. MUCH BETTER THEN DISH EVER WAS. What i don't understand is why all american direct. On the 28th. I'll have all the major networks but no option for a extra CW network. Directv has 2 CW"s east & west. I had it plus the CBS E&W. and was told don't ever remove these you won't get them back. And i told them i prefered the superstations. The thing i guess that i liked about the superstations. Even though now there's alot of mirrors of the same shows. At least if you miss one time. you can have another option to watch it. I'm almost wondering if there scared that its going to get like The distant nets we're that they would have to remove them all if its due to congress. We'll the government is closed how would they know if a customer service rep gave them to us. Sharon


The above is very true. That is how I found out and subscribed before the deadline.

#105 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:14 PM

It cannot be done under current laws. Superstations are still legal, but getting out of market stations is only permitted if your in market affiliates of those stations give permission.


That law needs to be ruled unconstitutional. Subscribes should be able to get any stations they want. Some laws are completely idiotic.

#106 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:15 PM

That law needs to be ruled unconstitutional. Subscribes should be able to get any stations they want. Some laws are completely idiotic.


You still have not identified where in the constitution the right you claim resides! It cannot be unconstitutional unless it violates the constitution.
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#107 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:38 AM

Very similar to driving laws and unlike Gun laws, it's not considered a right, more a privilege. 



#108 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:41 AM

That law needs to be ruled unconstitutional. Subscribes should be able to get any stations they want. Some laws are completely idiotic.

 

You say that because you are not the owner of a local affiliate.  You count on being local to a specific area.  Your news is centered on that and usually sports too.  The advertising money you make is based on local people seeing local adds.  Why would anyone need out of market sports packages if this were allowed?  Also how would any provider (including DirecTV) every have the room to make every local channel a national channel?  Never gonna happen!


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#109 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 12:09 PM

My only gripe is the escalating money being exhorted, uh demanded, by the affiliates to be carried by Cable and Satellite. They must provide OTA free because of their protection from other affiliates, same should apply to being carried on Cable. The affiliate has as much to gain by being in vastly more homes as does the Cable/Satellite carrier to have them in the packages. There should be a minimum charge as currently exists with DISH and DIRECT to get them. If the Affiliate would like to charge more, they should lose the right to be the only network in the DMA on the Satellite/Cable.


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#110 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 03:59 PM

It is interesting to see how many peeps in here want their Superstations then again are all for the law against the selling out of market TV stations to subscribers.

#111 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 06:59 PM

It is interesting to see how many peeps in here want their Superstations then again are all for the law against the selling out of market TV stations to subscribers.


It isn't about being for or against the law it is stating the facts as they exist today, October 16th, 2013.

What about the law were you were saying was unconstitutional again? Have you found the reference in the constitution?
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#112 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 09:58 PM

It isn't about being for or against the law it is stating the facts as they exist today, October 16th, 2013.

What about the law were you were saying was unconstitutional again? Have you found the reference in the constitution?


Maybe not but should be.

#113 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:33 AM

It is interesting to see how many peeps in here want their Superstations then again are all for the law against the selling out of market TV stations to subscribers.

 

I'm not certain you understand difference. To begin with, Superstations have nothing at all to do with Network affiliates and Distants. They are in a different class of carriage. In fact they are specifically allowed to be carried nationwide unless a competing channel with the same program objects. Networks are the opposite, you are not allowed to carry an out of market one, unless they agree.

And yes, unless you want to pay for a decoder box and higher fees to receive network channels OTA just like Cable channels are, or much higher fees on Satellite/Cable then you too should be in favor of the protection affiliates have. It actually has been consumer friendly where money is concerned. What is missing is an avenue where the locals still get money for lost ad revenue when someone gets a Distant affiliate. As I posted, if they want more money that changes the agreement, then protection should be gone and we should be able to choose. But it won't be cheap.


Edited by tampa8, 17 October 2013 - 09:38 AM.


#114 OFFLINE   david_jr

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:57 AM

It cannot be done under current laws. Superstations are still legal, but getting out of market stations is only permitted if your in market affiliates of those stations give permission.

 

James I think what Sharon was referring to is the ability of Cable systems to provide "significantly viewed" affiliates in addition to a DMA's own affiliates.  This practice is common among cable systems, but hasn't been allowed on DISH until recently and I'm still not really sure if anyone is getting significantly viewed on DISH anywhere that I'm aware of.  I gather through reading sites like this that D* does offer significantly viewed in places but don't have firsthand knowledge.  But, bottom line, it is pretty common with cable systems.  As an example, where I live in Western Mass we are considered in the Albany, NY DMA (about 40 miles west of here) and on DISH I am elegible for no in-state LIL channels.  While my neighbors just to the north of me in Bennington, VT (about 15 miles north of here) are in the same Albany DMA they are able to have at least one in-state LIL channel thanks to Sen. Leahy writing VT specifically into the new STELA law to receive at least one in-state LIL channel.  Now just to my east in towns that have cable (TWC) they are able in addition to Albany DMA to receive LIL from both Springfield, MA and Boston, MA I believe under the provision of "significantly viewed."  I'm not a lawyer (obvious I know) but this seems utterly unfair and should violate some equal protection clause somewhere (again not a lawyer).



#115 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 04:44 PM

It cannot be done under current laws. Superstations are still legal, but getting out of market stations is only permitted if your in market affiliates of those stations give permission.

James I think what Sharon was referring to is the ability of Cable systems to provide "significantly viewed" affiliates in addition to a DMA's own affiliates.  This practice is common among cable systems, but hasn't been allowed on DISH until recently and I'm still not really sure if anyone is getting significantly viewed on DISH anywhere that I'm aware of.  I gather through reading sites like this that D* does offer significantly viewed in places but don't have firsthand knowledge.  But, bottom line, it is pretty common with cable systems.


Significantly viewed is a big mess ... but the end of what I wrote still applies. Getting out of market stations is only permitted if your in market affiliates of those stations give permission.

There is too much difference between the cable and satellite laws. I was happy to see significantly viewed stations added to satellite law - but Congress created a situation where the permissions granted to satellite cable is not the same as the permissions granted to cable carriage.

With cable carriage a certain percentage of channels must be set aside for local broadcasters. Once that quota is met the cable company does not have to add more. Most cable companies have enough channels that all qualified local channels get carriage. A channel gets carried on cable by being receivable where the cable system exists. But there was a problem ... some stations had significant viewership in a cable company's area and couldn't get carriage. So Congress wrote a law that defined significant viewership and now if a station can show that a legally defined significant number of viewers watches their station they can force their way on to a cable system. The flaw on the list is that a station doesn't need to be defined as significantly viewed if they are already carried.

Congress took that list and misused it for satellite. Cable carried stations that are not on the list don't get the benefit of being significantly viewed. Congress also reversed the value of the list ... instead of a significantly viewed station forcing carriage it grants the power to the satellite carrier to offer carriage. A significantly viewed station does not need to be carried. And since significantly viewed can be defined as a county or smaller area, not the entire DMA, it is easier not to carry the channels.

I'd like to see something that is equal to cable ... while it is easier for DISH and DirecTV to manage just over 200 market areas and not be forced to be more granular the cable approach of "if you should be able to receive it over the air it should be on your service" should be followed. If I am in one market and am predicted receive another market's OTA signals I should be able to receive those signals via satellite.


As far as the current situation - There are a few stations that are carried as SV on DISH. Others are carried under the distant laws. The "same channel lineup for the entire market" policy has limited SV carriage and in some cases distants have been used instead of the SV when a network is missing.

It is complicated ... but there should be some way to make it simple without trampling too hard on the rights of the stations.
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#116 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:42 PM

In ROKU out of market channels are shown. But these are not as good as looking at these channels on satellite TV. Plus these channels only shows the news and when there is a break there is nothing on the screen except a note reading "We will be right back." who wants to stare at that for like forever. Or there might be a live shot of outside if the studio which is just as boring.

#117 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:44 PM

I'm not certain you understand difference. To begin with, Superstations have nothing at all to do with Network affiliates and Distants. They are in a different class of carriage. In fact they are specifically allowed to be carried nationwide unless a competing channel with the same program objects. Networks are the opposite, you are not allowed to carry an out of market one, unless they agree.
And yes, unless you want to pay for a decoder box and higher fees to receive network channels OTA just like Cable channels are, or much higher fees on Satellite/Cable then you too should be in favor of the protection affiliates have. It actually has been consumer friendly where money is concerned. What is missing is an avenue where the locals still get money for lost ad revenue when someone gets a Distant affiliate. As I posted, if they want more money that changes the agreement, then protection should be gone and we should be able to choose. But it won't be cheap.


What is a decider box? How much are the subscriptions to the provider on these boxes?

#118 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:20 PM

You mean decoder box? It's what DISH or most any carrier uses, it's the box that receives the scrambled or decoded signal. If you want to end the law that prohibits you from choosing your affiliate, the Networks would most likely then scramble their OTA signal and charge you to watch. Don't believe me? Look up the dispute with Aereo.


Edited by tampa8, 17 October 2013 - 08:20 PM.


#119 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 03:11 PM

You mean decoder box? It's what DISH or most any carrier uses, it's the box that receives the scrambled or decoded signal. If you want to end the law that prohibits you from choosing your affiliate, the Networks would most likely then scramble their OTA signal and charge you to watch. Don't believe me? Look up the dispute with Aereo.


Does DISH network have these? I never saw those advertised.

#120 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 04:02 PM

Does DISH network have these? I never saw those advertised.


Decoder boxes are not currently needed for OTA ... just regular ATSC tuners. tampa8 was suggesting that if one could choose their own affiliates nationwide that local stations would scramble their programs and a decoder would then be needed (although current laws require at least one unscrambled feed per broadcast channel).

The problem with the "end the law" plea is there is no law that prohibits carriage of out of market stations ... the laws on the books are PERMISSIVE, allowing carriage under certain circumstances. End the laws and the only way local stations would be carried would be individual agreements between the carrier and each station. People would receive less stations without laws ... not more.
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