Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Any news on 4K?


  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   fleckrj

fleckrj

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 1,171 posts
  • LocationCary, NC
Joined: Sep 04, 2009

Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:11 PM

If that's where they have space, that's where they have space. It's a CONUS slot, so, I doubt that will be a major limiting factor. It may be why they don't have national channels there but for example Dish Network has/had core channels there so it's not an insurmountable issue.

 

 

DirecTV will surely have less customers if the use the 119 for "main" channels 

 

 

There's a reason why Dish launched an Eastern arc. It has nothing to do with what the beam covers, it's the elevation of the satellite in the sky.

 

119 is CONUS only if you live in an area that has no trees, hills, or tall buildings and it never rains.  Before the LNB3 came out, I could not get HD through a DirecTV installer because I could not get a signal at all on 119 and the signal was below 80 on 110.  I did get an independant contractor to install HD for me, but he was not supposed to have done so.  At the time, the only HD channel that I cared about that was on 119 or 110 was ESPNU, and that was moved to 103 or 99 eventually.  When the LNB3 came out, I swapped the LNB, because I was tired of getting the guide data not updated error message.

 

DirecTV would lose most of their East Coast customers if the main channels were on 119 or 110. 



...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#42 OFFLINE   peds48

peds48

    🙈🙉🙊📡

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,266 posts
  • LocationLong Island, NY
Joined: Jan 10, 2008

Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:14 PM

 

 

DirecTV would lose most of their East Coast customers if the main channels were on 119 or 110. 

I would not say "most" but a good chunck


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#43 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,262 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:27 AM

There's a reason why Dish launched an Eastern arc. It has nothing to do with what the beam covers, it's the elevation of the satellite in the sky.

Yep;

 

The measured power levels of those frequently seen satellite footprint contours assume a sufficiently clear LOS of the receiving station to the satellite of course. 


DIRECTV sub. since Sep. of '95


#44 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,262 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:59 AM

To me though, there's still too many unanswered questions about sending 4K over the old Ku BSS band. How much compression can HEVC accomplish with only single pass encoding needed for linear broadcasts? What FEC code rates are necessary? Is the same DVB-S2 modulation coding standard sufficient?

 

A couple of things are for certain though. if the same Ku band 24 MHz wide transponders are to be used, you can't do much better than a symbol rate of only 20-21 Mbaud and a carrier modulation level of 8-PSK for saturated transponder operation.


Edited by HoTat2, 11 October 2013 - 04:02 AM.

DIRECTV sub. since Sep. of '95


#45 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 19,381 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:09 AM

It may be why they don't have national channels there but for example Dish Network has/had core channels there so it's not an insurmountable issue.

The difference being that DISH doesn't force those on the Right Coast to get 119W. They typically serve those customers from 61.5W and 72.7W.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#46 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 19,381 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:20 AM

It has nothing to do with what the beam covers, it's the elevation of the satellite in the sky.

I bet it has a lot to do with what the beam covers. At the extremes, the DIRECTV spot beams can be rather elongated. I would think this would be a fairly significant problem in the Northeast Coast where there are many markets in a relatively small area.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#47 OFFLINE   fleckrj

fleckrj

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 1,171 posts
  • LocationCary, NC
Joined: Sep 04, 2009

Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:01 AM

To me though, there's still too many unanswered questions about sending 4K over the old Ku BSS band. How much compression can HEVC accomplish with only single pass encoding needed for linear broadcasts? What FEC code rates are necessary? Is the same DVB-S2 modulation coding standard sufficient?

 

A couple of things are for certain though. if the same Ku band 24 MHz wide transponders are to be used, you can't do much better than a symbol rate of only 20-21 Mbaud and a carrier modulation level of 8-PSK for saturated transponder operation.

 

So I think you are saying the same thing that I believe - by the time you compress the 4K signal to get it to a size that can be transmitted quickly enough to function for linear broadcast, the resulting quality will be no better than the existing 1080p. 

 

I would rather see a new standard that keeps the number of pixels at 1080 (or even 720), but doubles the number of frames per second.  For home viewing, there is not enough advantage to going from 1080 to 4K to make it worth while, but there would be a big advantage for fast moving scenes to go from 29.97 fps to 60 fps.



#48 OFFLINE   slice1900

slice1900

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 2,931 posts
  • LocationIowa
Joined: Feb 14, 2013

Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:29 PM

To me though, there's still too many unanswered questions about sending 4K over the old Ku BSS band. How much compression can HEVC accomplish with only single pass encoding needed for linear broadcasts? What FEC code rates are necessary? Is the same DVB-S2 modulation coding standard sufficient?

 

A couple of things are for certain though. if the same Ku band 24 MHz wide transponders are to be used, you can't do much better than a symbol rate of only 20-21 Mbaud and a carrier modulation level of 8-PSK for saturated transponder operation.

 

Why would they use the Ku band for 4K? They're launching new satellites, seems like some of the capacity there could be dedicated to 4K. Using 110/119 is a problem for people on the east coast as has been pointed out, using Ku band on 101 is a problem because it is already used for SD by people who have dishes that only see 101. So it pretty much has to be on the new satellites.

 

There was some discussion about whether the existing LNBs would support RDBS bands or not in the D14 satellite thread a while back. If it turns out existing LNBs cannot support it, then using RDBS for some type of new service like 4K would make sense. Then you don't have to replace all the Slimline LNBs, just those for people who want to receive 4K broadcasts.


Edited by slice1900, 11 October 2013 - 12:31 PM.

SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21





Protected By... spam firewall...And...