Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Broadcasters take their case against Aereo to the Supreme Court & Win


  • Please log in to reply
192 replies to this topic

#141 OFFLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Fortuna! Fameux des Halles

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 11,922 posts
  • LocationWinters, California
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 27 June 2014 - 09:39 AM

But wouldn't the stations' response be to push the complainants to go OTA?


"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#142 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

Satelliteracer

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,035 posts
Joined: Dec 06, 2006

Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:42 AM

Now the back pay comes into play

 

http://projects.regi...court-internet/


DIRECTV employee

All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#143 OFFLINE   Athlon646464

Athlon646464

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • News Hound
  • 2,510 posts
  • LocationUxbridge, MA
Joined: Feb 23, 2007

Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:51 AM

Now the back pay comes into play

 

http://projects.regi...court-internet/

 

Wow - That's huge......


1 HR34-700, 1 C31-700, 1 HR24-500
Original install on April 20, 2008 - HR34 & C31 installed on August 24, 2013 - HR24 installed on July 23, 2010

Press any key to continue, or any other key to cancel.


#144 OFFLINE   Athlon646464

Athlon646464

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • News Hound
  • 2,510 posts
  • LocationUxbridge, MA
Joined: Feb 23, 2007

Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:57 AM

Update: Broadcasters may seek damages payout from Aereo after Supreme Court ruling
 
(The Register-Guard) - Now comes the expensive part for Aereo: finding out how much it will have to pay broadcasters after the US Supreme Court ruled Wednesday the television streaming service was illegally retransmitting their TV shows.
 
At a minimum, broadcasters will most likely look to recover retransmission fees -- the fee cable companies pay to use broadcast content -- from Aereo, Ewing said.
 
The networks could also try to collect fees for purported lost business, attorneys costs, and up to $150,000 for each television episode the service retransmitted....
 
Full Story in Satelliteracer's post two posts above this one.
 
Aereo1.png

1 HR34-700, 1 C31-700, 1 HR24-500
Original install on April 20, 2008 - HR34 & C31 installed on August 24, 2013 - HR24 installed on July 23, 2010

Press any key to continue, or any other key to cancel.


#145 OFFLINE   Herdfan

Herdfan

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 5,972 posts
Joined: Mar 18, 2006

Posted 27 June 2014 - 11:54 AM

But wouldn't the stations' response be to push the complainants to go OTA?

 

Depends on if the cable/DBS companies were paying for all subs in a market or only those who subscribed to locals.


My Setup

 

Why can I get to the "Adult's Only" area faster than I can get to the "ToDo" List?  DirecTV, that is messed up!!!


#146 OFFLINE   nmetro

nmetro

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 603 posts
Joined: Jul 11, 2006

Posted 27 June 2014 - 12:23 PM

Aereo is probably going to go out of business, due to the Supreme Court decision. This is where is should end. But, the broadcasters want to make an example, of Aereo, by suing them, for fees they would have received; if Aereo signed a retransmission consent; similar to satellite and cable companies. While some thing this is a good idea, this just vengeance on the broadcast industry's part.



#147 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 19,505 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 27 June 2014 - 01:41 PM

Again it doesn't matter IF it costs Aereo whomever in "infrastructure" to supply OTA to their customers because they are selling a product that they don't have the legal right to sell!

 

I could start a business that relied upon me stealing stuff from people's porches.  I'm not breaking in, and I argue "if it wasn't meant to be taken why wasn't it locked up inside?" and then I charge delivery fees to my customers and "give" them the product... but I'm still stealing and reselling stuff that I don't have a right to sell... and that's what Aereo was doing.

 

OTA is "free" with the caveat I have posted earlier.  You can't do whatever you want with it.  You are entitled to have TVs, VCRs, whatever in your home or car or portable devices and receive their free transmission for your own use.  That's it.

 

People who think the Aereo loophole is valid... How about this...  What if I record something from an OTA and burn it to DVD... then I make and sell copies of those DVDs to people.  Is that legal?  All I'm doing is giving the same "free" content to others and I am only charging for the DVD and my duplication "infrastructure"... right?  But it would be illegal to do it... same as it is illegal for Aereo to do what they did.


-- I like to go fast (not really)


#148 OFFLINE   Herdfan

Herdfan

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 5,972 posts
Joined: Mar 18, 2006

Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:41 PM


People who think the Aereo loophole is valid... How about this...  What if I record something from an OTA and burn it to DVD... then I make and sell copies of those DVDs to people.  Is that legal?  All I'm doing is giving the same "free" content to others and I am only charging for the DVD and my duplication "infrastructure"... right?  But it would be illegal to do it... same as it is illegal for Aereo to do what they did.

 

This idea reminds of an idea a college classmate had.  He worked for some IT company in Cincinnati and he and some of his fellow IT guys came up with a plan.  They were going to buy used CD's and then sell copies of the songs online.  Their theory was as long as they only sold songs they had purchased used CD's of, then they weren't breaking the law.  It was a novel idea, but they soon figured out that many CD's only had 1 good song and the economics of it didn't work.


My Setup

 

Why can I get to the "Adult's Only" area faster than I can get to the "ToDo" List?  DirecTV, that is messed up!!!


#149 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 39,515 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 27 June 2014 - 07:39 PM

Aereo is probably going to go out of business, due to the Supreme Court decision. This is where is should end. But, the broadcasters want to make an example, of Aereo, by suing them, for fees they would have received; if Aereo signed a retransmission consent; similar to satellite and cable companies. While some thing this is a good idea, this just vengeance on the broadcast industry's part.


They were warned and they decided to remain in business and expand their service offerings.

A few years ago DISH was accused of stealing Tivo's DVR technology and lost ... and they were presented with a bill for their past transgressions. DISH also stole the HD feeds of four ESPN/ABC channels (carried without permission) ... when they lost that lawsuit they were presented with a bill for their transgressions. It is typical in these cases for the company who had their rights violated to be able to collect back payment.
Welcome to DBS Talk - Let's talk about DBS! (The Digital Bit Stream)
DISH Network vs DirecTV: HD Channel List - DISH Network HD Capacity, HD Conversion and more.
DISH Network complete channel lists and lists by satellite location are in The Uplink Activity Center.
Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself. Content is not controlled by DISH Network, DirecTV or any other company.

#150 OFFLINE   tonyd79

tonyd79

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 12,436 posts
  • LocationColumbia, MD
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:04 AM

They were warned and they decided to remain in business and expand their service offerings.A few years ago DISH was accused of stealing Tivo's DVR technology and loss ... and they were presented with a bill for their past transgressions. DISH also stole the HD feeds of four ESPN/ABC channels (carried without permission) ... when they lost that lawsuit they were presented with a bill for their transgressions. It is typical in these cases for the company who had their rights violated to be able to collect back payment.


Yup. You steal my bike, I want it back. Not just a promise to not steal my car.
LR: HR34-700, H24-200, Fios DVR, BD350 Blu Ray, Roku Netflix Player, Chromecast, Sony 65w850 TV
BR: HR21-200, Viso 32LX, DB350 Blu Ray
Dish: Slimline, SWM8
Other: genieGo

#151 OFFLINE   yosoyellobo

yosoyellobo

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 1,774 posts
Joined: Nov 01, 2006

Posted 28 June 2014 - 10:16 AM

Yup. You steal my bike, I want it back. Not just a promise to not steal my car.


How did that work out for OJ?

#152 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

SayWhat?

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,547 posts
Joined: Jun 06, 2009

Posted 28 June 2014 - 11:30 AM

I still don't understand why the broadcasters object to tens of thousands of additional viewers seeing their advertising with no effort on their part.  They should be ecstatic at the opportunity top raise ad rates which would more than offset some measily retrans fees.

 

Encrypt OTA? That would essentially kill the broadcasters.  I can't imagine any significant number of people buying set-top boxes and paying subscription fees for OTA channels received via antenna.


Help stamp out Twits and Twitterers!

HD, SchmacHD!! Just be glad you've got a picture at all.

#153 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 39,515 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:57 PM

How did that work out for OJ?

 
Not too well. While he was found "not guilty" of murder he was found financially responsible for the deaths. Which is different than what is happening in this case. First of all, Aereo is not accused of murdering anyone. Second, they have been found guilty of copyright infringement - perhaps reluctantly but SCOTUS says they broke the 1976 law. The next step is to find out just how financially responsible Aereo is for violating copyright.

 

I still don't understand why the broadcasters object to tens of thousands of additional viewers seeing their advertising with no effort on their part.  They should be ecstatic at the opportunity top raise ad rates which would more than offset some measily retrans fees.


They want both. They (as an industry) have been part of CATV, cable and satellite for long enough that they know they are "must have" programming. They have their "x company is refusing to carry us" marketing pitch finely honed enough that all they need to do is insert the station, city and targeted company into a boilerplate complaint. Unless they are a total loser of a TV station they can leverage carriage and demand a ransom sized payment.

It is the same problem as with ESPN (on a smaller scale). ESPN knows that their channels are popular enough that they are "must have" and despite threats no carrier wants to be the first to permanently operate without ESPN's channels. Carriers can drop locals and survive ... fighting the bad press until the station lowers the price or gains more leverage (such as merging with a station in a market that the carrier does not want to lose).

Congress has interfered with cable companies and required TV channels be offered carriage on a lower tier ... to the point of requiring lower priced "lifeline" services so people who do not want other cable channels can subscribe just to locals and a few channels. The interference with satellite companies is different - satellite can put all locals in an a la carte package, but they must put all locals for the market in that package. Satellite cannot sell customers their local ABC without selling them their local FOX unless the local FOX refuses carriage completely.

Thanks to Congress broadcasters can demand both ... carriage and money. And considering that it all stems out of a law passed in 1976 I do not expect Congress to reverse that decision any time soon.
Welcome to DBS Talk - Let's talk about DBS! (The Digital Bit Stream)
DISH Network vs DirecTV: HD Channel List - DISH Network HD Capacity, HD Conversion and more.
DISH Network complete channel lists and lists by satellite location are in The Uplink Activity Center.
Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself. Content is not controlled by DISH Network, DirecTV or any other company.

#154 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

SayWhat?

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,547 posts
Joined: Jun 06, 2009

Posted 28 June 2014 - 01:11 PM

 Thanks to Congress broadcasters can demand both ... carriage and money. And considering that it all stems out of a law passed in 1976 I do not expect Congress to reverse that decision any time soon.

Despite their 93% disapproval rating.


Help stamp out Twits and Twitterers!

HD, SchmacHD!! Just be glad you've got a picture at all.

#155 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 19,505 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 28 June 2014 - 01:21 PM

I still don't understand why the broadcasters object to tens of thousands of additional viewers seeing their advertising with no effort on their part.  They should be ecstatic at the opportunity top raise ad rates which would more than offset some measily retrans fees.

 

They don't object to having more eyeballs.  They object to someone else illegally profiting over their product.

 

While there are some people who truly do have issues receiving OTA... it is also true that many people who get their locals via cable or satellite can actually get them via OTA if they put up an antenna... they just don't do it because they can get it via cable/satellite as a convenience.  People are willing to pay for that convenience... and if cable/satellite is going to charge, the OTA broadcasters want their fair share.

 

Imagine the alternative...  The broadcasters could have decided NO to all forms of retransmission... forbidding cable/satellite from including the OTA channels.  That would mean you had no other choice but to put up an antenna for OTA or go without.  What would you do?  Most would put up an antenna to get their local stations... so the option of having them via cable/satellite is a bonus to you.

 

IF it was only about expanding eyeballs, there would be no issues... but cable/satellite charge for the OTA channels...  that's why the broadcasters want their share.  Cable/satellite say "we have your locals" as a means to get you to sign up... and when they lose a local?  People complain "I want my locals"... so cable/satellite do know this is something they need to keep customers and they know they can sell it... but they don't want to pay for it.  Just like many customers try and not pay for their cable/satellite.

 

You can't sell someone else's product without their permission even if they give it away free.  It's really a simple thing.  IF you are standing on a street corner handing out free $20 bills to everyone who walks by.... that doesn't give me the right to rob you and take all your money.  You decide how to distribute your stuff.


-- I like to go fast (not really)


#156 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 39,515 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 28 June 2014 - 01:27 PM

They don't object to having more eyeballs.  They object to someone else illegally profiting over their product.


It was not illegal until the stations convinced Congress to make it illegal. And the way the law got written, no profit is needed to violate the law.
Welcome to DBS Talk - Let's talk about DBS! (The Digital Bit Stream)
DISH Network vs DirecTV: HD Channel List - DISH Network HD Capacity, HD Conversion and more.
DISH Network complete channel lists and lists by satellite location are in The Uplink Activity Center.
Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself. Content is not controlled by DISH Network, DirecTV or any other company.

#157 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

SayWhat?

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,547 posts
Joined: Jun 06, 2009

Posted 28 June 2014 - 02:43 PM

Imagine the alternative... 

Imagine the other alternative.  Congress responds to the will of the people, does not KowTow to big business megabucks and does the right thing for once, telling broadcasters that once it leaves their tower, they have no say in what happens to it.

 

And that includes the various jocks playing with their balls.


Help stamp out Twits and Twitterers!

HD, SchmacHD!! Just be glad you've got a picture at all.

#158 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 39,515 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 28 June 2014 - 03:16 PM

Imagine the other alternative.  Congress responds to the will of the people, does not KowTow to big business megabucks and does the right thing for once, telling broadcasters that once it leaves their tower, they have no say in what happens to it.


Yeah. Good luck with that. I have other windmills to tilt at. :)
Welcome to DBS Talk - Let's talk about DBS! (The Digital Bit Stream)
DISH Network vs DirecTV: HD Channel List - DISH Network HD Capacity, HD Conversion and more.
DISH Network complete channel lists and lists by satellite location are in The Uplink Activity Center.
Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself. Content is not controlled by DISH Network, DirecTV or any other company.

#159 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 39,515 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 28 June 2014 - 05:55 PM

Aero Suspends Service

A little over three years ago, our team embarked on a journey to improve the consumer television experience, using technology to create a smart, cloud-based television antenna consumers could use to access live over the air broadcast television.

On Wednesday, June 25, the United States Supreme Court reversed a lower court decision in favor of Aereo, dealing a massive setback to consumers.

As a result of that decision, our case has been returned to the lower Court. We have decided to pause our operations temporarily as we consult with the court and map out our next steps. All of our users will be refunded their last paid month. If you have questions about your account, please email support@aereo.com or tweet us @AereoSupport.

The spectrum that the broadcasters use to transmit over the air programming belongs to the American public and we believe you should have a right to access that live programming whether your antenna sits on the roof of your home, on top of your television or in the cloud.

On behalf of the entire team at Aereo, thank you for the outpouring of support. It has been staggering and we are so grateful for your emails, Tweets and Facebook posts. Keep your voices loud and sign up for updates at ProtectMyAntenna.org — our journey is far from done.

Yours truly,
Chet Kanojia

https://www.aereo.com/
Welcome to DBS Talk - Let's talk about DBS! (The Digital Bit Stream)
DISH Network vs DirecTV: HD Channel List - DISH Network HD Capacity, HD Conversion and more.
DISH Network complete channel lists and lists by satellite location are in The Uplink Activity Center.
Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself. Content is not controlled by DISH Network, DirecTV or any other company.

#160 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 19,505 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 28 June 2014 - 11:47 PM

Imagine the other alternative.  Congress responds to the will of the people, does not KowTow to big business megabucks and does the right thing for once, telling broadcasters that once it leaves their tower, they have no say in what happens to it.

 

And that includes the various jocks playing with their balls.

That will never happen.  You are suggesting a scenario under which it would become legal to record and sell anything that is broadcast over the air.

 

I know people hate "big business" and I agree they do sometimes get some benefits that us regular Joes don't...  but that doesn't mean I want to see a business lose ownership of its product either.


-- I like to go fast (not really)





spam firewall