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Signal issues or something worse?


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25 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   TheFigurehead

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:50 PM

Hello -

 

For the past few days, I've been having errors pop up when recording show, especially the HD-Locals. 

 

Sat 103 (S)

 

1-8     37 20 33 0  N/A N/A N/A N/A

9-16    N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 97

17-24  79 74 98 92 54 45 88 79

25-32   N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

 

Sat 99(S) is also showing similar low numbers.  All the other Sats seem to be mid 80's or higher.

 

Here is some setup info:

 

DMA = Peoria-Bloomington

Zero LOS issues (dish is on top of house)

5-LNB Dish (4 wires)

SWM 16

HR-34, HR-20, H24

 

My dish is about 5 years old, I am guessing.  I installed the SWM16 and HR-34 December of 2011.

 

Any thoughts to what those numbers might mean?  Are those numbers possibly causing my locals to not record?

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or assistance.



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#2 OFFLINE   longrider

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 05:57 PM

Signal level is not an issue, Peoria-Bloomington is on transponder 19 on 103S and you are showing a 98 for that transponder. The low numbers are because they are all spotbeams and you are on the fringe of many other spotbeams.  What is the issue you are having with the recordings?


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#3 OFFLINE   TheFigurehead

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 06:23 PM

Thanks for the reply, LR -

 

For example, the last couple nights recording the Sox-Cards game on our HD Local (Fox 43), I get a 'partial recording' msg.  And I can see on the lower right corner a error code of 771 (I think).  During playback of the 'partial' recording, there is lots of audio drops and a few video glitches, too.  When I switched to my OTA channel (Fox 43-1) the picture is fine.



#4 OFFLINE   TheFigurehead

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 06:31 PM

Here is what is displaying on my screen when I start the recording playback:

 

 

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#5 OFFLINE   longrider

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 06:56 PM

Was there any bad weather to the south of you? It can be clear and sunny directly overhead but if there is a heavy thunderstorm to the south it can kill the signal.  What about specific times of day? There is a slim possibility of temperature issues with the LNB.  Honestly if it continues I would just call DirecTV.  It does not appear to be something easy to diagnose


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#6 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:15 AM

There is a huge area of rain to the south and slightly west of there now.

I usually get that when it is raining in my line of sight to the satellites.

 

http://www.wundergro...=Texas City, TX


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#7 OFFLINE   otaliema

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:05 PM

your signal is fine based on txp map information, you may have another issue as asked/stated prior weather can cause problems even if it's not over your house at the time.

 

Run a system test and report the codes and information on the codes from the test. Don't worry about phone line and internet failure codes. 

is the channel HD or SD. if it's SD hows your 101 and 119 (if listed) signals?

Dose this problem happen on live tv or just recordings?

Is the problem on more than this channel/show?

Are you missing any stations or are they not correct? eg you tune to CBS and get Disney or some other channel other than what you should be getting. 


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They DO NOT reflect on DIRECTV and or any partner, affiliated company's, polices, processes, opinions, or things that are not listed here.

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#8 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:12 PM

I have to ask, how old is the cabling in the house? In my experience 90% of the problem with signal loss is in the cable. 


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#9 OFFLINE   TheFigurehead

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:00 PM

My house was built in 2000.  Pretty sure they ran standard coax throughout... 

 

So after getting the 771 error on both tuner 1 and tuner 2, I decided to hit the 'More Info" button.  It had 2 options listed for troubleshooting.  One of them seemed way to easy, so I tried it 1st.  Basically, I unscrewed the coax (Sat - In) cable from my HR-34 and then promptly screwed it right back on.  Took a step back and was amazed that the 771 errors disappeared.  WAY too easy!  I can only guess that the connector got loosened and was having issues with the incoming signal.  I really kind of feel dumb for not trying this prior to posting here on DBSTalk...  :)  

 

In the future, I will remind myself to go through the silly mundane trivial troubleshooting steps first before thinking it is a more significant failure.  Lesson learned...   :grin:



#10 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:30 AM

Glad everything worked out :)


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#11 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:01 AM

My house was built in 2000.  Pretty sure they ran standard coax throughout... 

 

So after getting the 771 error on both tuner 1 and tuner 2, I decided to hit the 'More Info" button.  It had 2 options listed for troubleshooting.  One of them seemed way to easy, so I tried it 1st.  Basically, I unscrewed the coax (Sat - In) cable from my HR-34 and then promptly screwed it right back on.  Took a step back and was amazed that the 771 errors disappeared.  WAY too easy!  I can only guess that the connector got loosened and was having issues with the incoming signal.  I really kind of feel dumb for not trying this prior to posting here on DBSTalk...  :)  

 

In the future, I will remind myself to go through the silly mundane trivial troubleshooting steps first before thinking it is a more significant failure.  Lesson learned...   :grin:

 

Take care when tightening up the coax fittings on the HRs.  I used to use a wrench, but the pitiful lock nuts they use on the back bulkhead (if they can even be called lock nuts) are sometimes loose (yup, they come from the factory like that) and the whole barrel will spin if too much torque is applied.  If that barrel spins too much the thin connector from the barrel to the motherboard will break and the unit will have to be returned.  I could not fix either of the two sets this happened to me on.  Best to just make the connection fingertight and keep an eye on the barrel while you're doing that.

 

Rich



#12 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:00 PM

Absolutely, you never want to use a wrench in any F connector that is attached to an electronic board. Ground blocks, splitters and the like are OK to use a wrench on.  LNBs, receivers not so much 


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The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


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#13 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 10:03 AM

Absolutely, you never want to use a wrench in any F connector that is attached to an electronic board. Ground blocks, splitters and the like are OK to use a wrench on.  LNBs, receivers not so much 

 

There is a torque requirement/suggestion for the coax barrels on the HRs.  VOS posted it some time ago.  That spec assumes that the barrels are properly secured to the bulkhead, which is a pretty big assumption.  If they'd just put proper lock nuts on the barrels...

 

I've only had two 24-200s.  The first one I used a wrench on to lightly tighten up the coax fitting and the barrel turned and broke the link inside to the motherboard.  The second one I got, I checked and both nuts on the barrels were loose (you can check by turning the barrels with your fingers, you should not be able to do that).  I've had it happen on other models, the 200s just stand out to me because they both had the same issue.

 

Rich 



#14 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 02:09 PM

There is a torque requirement/suggestion for the coax barrels on the HRs. 

Yup, finger tight as recommended by DirecTV the ones who makes this equipment 


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#15 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 02:48 PM

Does it really matter to tighten anything tighter than finger tight? Can an extra 1/8th turn from a wrench make any difference to the signal quality, in the absence of other issues with the coax connector or the F connector you're attaching to? I suppose different people have different amounts of 'finger tight', but so long as you aren't arthritic or have weak fingers it should be doable to tighten it enough without undue strain.

 

Granted I can certainly see giving it a bit of extra bit of torque from a wrench if it were somewhere not easily accessible, or outside like a roof, because you never know if over a few years outdoors it might work its way loose due to expansion/contraction of the metal. But inside? Seems like a big pain if you have to get the wrench out anytime you want to disconnect something.

 

I've never gone beyond finger tight in any of my connections and never have a problem that I solved with extra tightening or the old unscrew/re-screw. The only exception I made to my finger tight rule was screwing a bunch of diplexers into some 16 way splitters using M/M barrels. That was only to keep them all properly lined up so they didn't get in each other's way :) I did manage to break one of the M/M barrels doing that though.

 

I've encountered some pretty crappy connectors that don't tighten well, in that the nut seems to seize and wants to turn the coax itself around. With such connectors it takes a lot of wiggling with the coax to get the nut free to turn on its own. People who have connectors like that might think they have it tight but it really isn't, so a wrench would be handy in such cases to know when it really is fully tightened. Ever since I started making my own cables and replaced all the questionable stuff the original installers left behind I've never had one like that (not that I take any credit for that being due to my "skill", I'm sure it is because the EX6XL is a high quality connector with a nice large nut that always turns freely, so it is pretty much idiot-proof)


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#16 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 03:28 PM

Does it really matter to tighten anything tighter than finger tight? 

outside it does.  to make them water proof.  what happens is if you tell someone to use a wrench, you might run the risk of that person actually braking the F connector.  matter of fact, it just happen to me with a trainee.  I told him to "just give it a twist" connect a coax cable to an LNB, he over torqued it and messed up the connector on the LNB


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#17 OFFLINE   DB Stalker

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:03 PM

I believe 30 in lbs is the torque wrench that most installers use.
When I installed my system I did everything inside finger tight. About a year later my wife called me while I was away and said that everything in the house was 771. I had her check the PI and she said the power to SWM side was about a quarter turn loose. She tightened it down and everything came back on. I recommend torque everything that isn't a receiver. I've never broken any connectors doing it this way.

#)


#)


#18 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:09 PM

I believe 30 in lbs is the torque wrench that most installers use.
When I installed my system I did everything inside finger tight. About a year later my wife called me while I was away and said that everything in the house was 771. I had her check the PI and she said the power to SWM side was about a quarter turn loose. She tightened it down and everything came back on. I recommend torque everything that isn't a receiver. I've never broken any connectors doing it this way.

#)

Not many installers use a torque wrench.  they might not even know what that is... :) . But I still would think that 30# might be excessive for a receiver.  more like 20# to be on the safe side.  and to be even more safer, finger tight.


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#19 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:41 PM

I believe 30 in lbs is the torque wrench that most installers use.
When I installed my system I did everything inside finger tight. About a year later my wife called me while I was away and said that everything in the house was 771. I had her check the PI and she said the power to SWM side was about a quarter turn loose. She tightened it down and everything came back on. I recommend torque everything that isn't a receiver. I've never broken any connectors doing it this way.

#)

Most likely the center conductor was not cut long enough in this case. In fact, that is a recurring problem waiting to happen if it only took 1/4 turn to correct.



#20 OFFLINE   DB Stalker

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:41 PM

Not many installers use a torque wrench. they might not even know what that is... :) . But I still would think that 30# might be excessive for a receiver. more like 20# to be on the safe side. and to be even more safer, finger tight.

Yup, like I said, finger tight on the STB and torque all others. :)

#)


#)





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