Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

DSWM13 Switch


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
373 replies to this topic

#181 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,767 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 15 November 2013 - 08:35 PM

If the surface is curved, would that allay your concerns regarding loss of Ku beam focus?

It wouldn't take much of a curve.


A.K.A VOS

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#182 OFFLINE   slice1900

slice1900

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 2,404 posts
  • LocationIowa
Joined: Feb 14, 2013

Posted 15 November 2013 - 09:23 PM

Well, that is how they are building buildings today, so its what you have to look at, and I don't see that changing, every new development in southern California is set up that way. I haven't seen one home or condo or apartment designed the way you are suggesting.  Not one.  Where have you? They have a building closet where all possible sources come into, and then the appropriate ones are split and sent to the individual units, which each have their own central distribution system in the specific unit. Usually they run twoe coax and one Ethernet for phone, and have a conduit to pull more cables through if its needed from the building closet to the unit closet. 

 

Therefore, if that wont work in this kind of system, there's no point in this kind of system for consumers, and again, I don't see them making separate systems if they can make one that works for both...And that would be cheaper..  And keep their stuff not at all confusing to peopel who might otherwise try and plug in their dvd player cat cables to the dtv cat jacks, so to speak...

 

 

What you're describing there sounds like the cat5 entering the individual units isn't live? Or is it being used for a telephone in some units? Assuming you have one unused cat5 or better (all 4 pairs) run to each unit from a central point in the building or on each floor of the building, this could be made to work. The MDU would manage/hardcode IP addresses into the DSWM, and all receivers. The DSWM would be connected to a switch that is in turn connected to all those unused cat5s going to every unit (all one switch or one switch with other switches connected to it, doesn't matter) No routing required. All these switches would be managed switches, to allow broadcast filtering and port based ARP mapping to prevent broadcast storms and IP conflicts. Pretty basic stuff any enterprise quality managed switch can do.

 

It wouldn't really matter what equipment was in the units, so long as the outside line and all Directv receivers were interconnected via gigabit ports. Give the residents a choice: We'll install and support your Directv and provide you with a little switch that will be connected to the outside line and the wall ports serving your receivers. If you mess around with what we've setup, that's fine, but if it stops working and you call us, the first thing we're going to do is to put everything back and if that makes it work then obviously you broke it - so we'll charge a $100 "no trouble found" fee for wasting our time.

 

No matter what the resident does to the setup, as long as the path from outside line to receiver is connected by switches or the switch ports of a wireless router, it'll work. Switches don't care about subnets or IP addresses, they pass traffic based on MAC address. The resident could of course mess up their own Directv reception if they don't know what they're doing or have some internal network problems, but the protections on the managed router avoid allowing them to mess up the Directv in other units.

 

Sounds great, right? So what's the downside? No internet access from the receivers. The MDU could provide that, and would have to provide enough bandwidth to cover residents accessing PPV over the internet. If they're willing to do so, great. If not, then the receivers would need to access the resident's network for that. This could be accomplished by replacing the switch the MDU provides with a basic router, that would perform the same function but also have a port that connects to the resident's network and obtains an IP address via DHCP, which all the receivers would be routed through when they need to hit the internet.


Edited by slice1900, 15 November 2013 - 09:26 PM.

SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#183 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,042 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 19 November 2013 - 05:07 PM

It is for DRE and D2

 

Inbox-(117-messages,-19-unread).pngClick for large view - Uploaded with Skitch

Since the second scheduled DSWiM-13 seminar is now near or probably completed by now, sure hope an attendee will chime in here with what they've learned about it. :)   


DIRECTV sub. since Sep. of '95


#184 ONLINE   AntAltMike

AntAltMike

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,765 posts
  • LocationCollege Park MD (just outside Wash, DC)
Joined: Nov 20, 2004

Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:53 AM

I missed yesterday's session at West Chester Pennsylvania yesterday, because I had mistakenly thought it was today, but then they sent out notification of a couple more sessions, one local to me in two weeks that I expect to be attending.
 
 
HD Headend Technologies  December 4, 2013      West Chester, PA    9:00 AM - 4:30 PM        

DRE Plus Loop Through      December 5, 2013      West Chester, PA    9:00 AM - 4:30 PM        

HD Headend Technologies  December 11, 2013    Las Vegas, NV         9:00 AM - 4:30 PM        

DRE Plus Loop Through      December 12, 2013    Las Vegas, NV         9:00 AM - 4:30 PM

           * All times listed local times for the city that the class is held.

 

  TrainingCombo2b.jpg


Edited by AntAltMike, 22 November 2013 - 05:07 PM.


#185 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,042 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:58 AM

OK;

 

I see these seminars don't specifically mention the DSWiM-13 as one of the "features" to be discussed for the meetings on DRE systems (the COM 1000 systems wouldn't use them of course), but perhaps it will be anyhow.

 

Look forward to your report back here on it if it is ... 


DIRECTV sub. since Sep. of '95


#186 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,767 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 06 December 2013 - 07:34 PM

OK;

 

I see these seminars don't specifically mention the DSWiM-13 as one of the "features" to be discussed for the meetings on DRE systems (the COM 1000 systems wouldn't use them of course), but perhaps it will be anyhow.

 

Look forward to your report back here on it if it is ... 

When the cover letter says "burn before reading... " I'm not sure how much will get posted here.

I will "confirm" a lot of this thread is on the right track.


A.K.A VOS

#187 OFFLINE   Sixto

Sixto

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 11,975 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Posted 06 December 2013 - 09:41 PM

Interesting.
DirecTV: Genie, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/35)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#188 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,767 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 06 December 2013 - 09:58 PM

Interesting.

Jan 15th we'll know more


A.K.A VOS

#189 OFFLINE   inkahauts

inkahauts

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 15,121 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 06 December 2013 - 10:18 PM

Now I am intrigued as to which of the tons of things that have been said are on target, and do any  of them in any way maybe coincide with the bss sats going up....  



#190 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,767 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 06 December 2013 - 10:19 PM

yes :lol:


A.K.A VOS

#191 OFFLINE   slice1900

slice1900

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 2,404 posts
  • LocationIowa
Joined: Feb 14, 2013

Posted 06 December 2013 - 10:28 PM

Ask a general question, get a general answer! :lol:


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#192 OFFLINE   inkahauts

inkahauts

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 15,121 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 06 December 2013 - 10:43 PM

:lol:



#193 OFFLINE   slice1900

slice1900

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 2,404 posts
  • LocationIowa
Joined: Feb 14, 2013

Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:13 PM

Since it isn't clear what the BSS/RDBS sats will be doing as far as providing customer content, all we can go on is the statement in the preface to the DSWM paper that one of the goals behind its design was flexibility for "many more satellites". At the time I wrote some of the stuff here I under the mistaken impression that Directv would be adding Ka from 101 for customer content at some point, not realizing it was already used internally (though it still isn't clear exactly where it fits within the delivery system for LiL) That would have most definitely required a new LNB, but since that Ka from 101 is not being added for customer use I'm back to considering the possibility that since nothing much is changing beyond the possibility of adding BSS from one or two locations, perhaps the existing LNBs were designed for that from the start.

 

Due to the way it works, the DSWM should be pretty future proof toward future changes/additions to what the LNB provides. Whether it turns out it is a necessary upgrade to access whatever customer content there may be from the BSS satellites is another matter. If the LNB was built able to handle BSS, the analog SWMs would definitely have been built to do so as well, and the first generation DSWM will turn out to be pretty uninteresting outside of the narrow market at which it has been mentioned as being intended for.

 

I keep kicking myself for throwing out my bad LNB earlier this year. I wanted to take it apart and have peek inside but one of the screws was stripped (or maybe it was some sort of security screw?) so I tossed it. Should have saved it until I could borrow a sawzall for a minute. A peek inside may allow identification of the DROs. Whether there are two or three of them would quickly answer the question of whether it can receive BSS or not.


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#194 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,767 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:30 AM

Since it isn't clear what the BSS/RDBS sats will be doing as far as providing customer content, all we can go on is....

I've seen some "fingerprints/cookie crumbs" pointing to using the two flexports for Ka hi/low, which would suggest a new LNB with 6 outputs.

WorldDirect would need a new diplexer to combine its Ku.


A.K.A VOS

#195 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,042 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:50 AM

I've seen some "fingerprints/cookie crumbs" pointing to using the two flexports for Ka hi/low, which would suggest a new LNB with 6 outputs.

WorldDirect would need a new diplexer to combine its Ku.

Don't you mean use the two flexports for the down-converted RDBS R/LHCP IF signals?

 

If true, wow ... , now 6 lines needed from the LNB to the multiswitch?

 

Definitely only practical for outdoor mounting of the SWiM switch then. 


DIRECTV sub. since Sep. of '95


#196 OFFLINE   slice1900

slice1900

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 2,404 posts
  • LocationIowa
Joined: Feb 14, 2013

Posted 07 December 2013 - 02:32 AM

I've seen some "fingerprints/cookie crumbs" pointing to using the two flexports for Ka hi/low, which would suggest a new LNB with 6 outputs.

WorldDirect would need a new diplexer to combine its Ku.

 

 

I'd been wondering if the flex ports on the SWM8/16 were capable of making use of the Ka IF bands of 250-750 and 1650-2150 MHz. Are these cookie crumbs anything you can share? I imagine not, or you probably would have :) I kind of guessed that since the flex ports used the same Ku IF range from 950 - 1450 Mhz as the other 4 LNBs, it "might make sense" to extend that to doing the same with the Ka IF range, but lacked a way to find out.

 

One of the reasons I'd been off on the idea of 6 LNB cables before was Sonora's recent introduction of a brand new amplifier that included two flex ports, while keeping the current frequency ceiling of 2150 MHz. I found that interesting, since the second flex port hadn't been used for years now and there was nothing on the horizon to suggest Directv was going to add any more single use sats like the 95* and former 72.5*. One can understand keeping the unused flex port "just in case they bring it back someday" even if they didn't know any future plans Directv had for it, but similar reasoning would have them also increasing the amplifier's rated frequency range above 2150 MHz "just in case"...

 

Using the two flex ports is one way for D14/D15 to serve BSS/RDBS, without messing with the current frequency range, and maintaining the existing investment in SWMs (and for me to be happy I have two spare coax from my old 72.5* dish that could be used for this)

 

As for 95, using a diplexer as you suggest would work and reduce loss over the other alternative of using a splitter/combiner. The problem is that unless you've identified which cables are which from inside to the roof, you won't know which ones are connected to the flex ports, and you must use those. I'm still of the opinion that if BSS from 99 & 103 will be used for customer broadcast, it makes a lot of sense to use a half dozen of those new transponders to replicate the content from 119 and 95 and have a single 3LNB dish for all installs (well two, the SWM and non-SWM version) But strangely Directv didn't ask for my opinion so there's no reason to believe they'll take my advice :)

 

I wonder how the signalling to the two additional coax would work? My money's on proprietary DiseqC commands to identify to the LNB which cables are connected to the two flex ports. If you look at Sonora's polarity locker, the version shown on their site now has graphics on the front of it suggesting it supplies 20v (i.e. 18v) to both flex ports. Older versions showed graphics on the front indicating they were capable of supplying either 20v or 14v, presumably switched via DiseqC. Sonora's new amp also lists "18v" on both flex ports. So it appears something may have changed in Sonora's understanding of the voltage requirements for the flex ports, and there's only one possible source for that information.


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#197 OFFLINE   slice1900

slice1900

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 2,404 posts
  • LocationIowa
Joined: Feb 14, 2013

Posted 07 December 2013 - 02:43 AM

Don't you mean use the two flexports for the down-converted RDBS R/LHCP IF signals?

 

If true, wow ... , now 6 lines needed from the LNB to the multiswitch?

 

Definitely only practical for outdoor mounting of the SWiM switch then. 

 

If by the time this new LNB is needed they can provide a second generation DSWM, with 20+ SWM channels on a single output in a DSWM LNB, you pretty much solve that problem for 99.9% of residential installs. Even the current 13 channel DSWM would probably cover 98% of them. Commercial installs will need to add one or two coax if they don't already have six available, no way around it.

 

I wonder what MDU installers have been trained to do in the last few years since 72.5* went away? Sonora's newer drawings all show the standard four LNB polarities plus a 95* dish. Were installers trained to add a "spare" coax, or somehow subtly pushed towards running 6 coaxes even when a 95* dish wasn't being used? If they have been, that would be a pretty big indication that this is where we're headed.


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#198 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,767 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 07 December 2013 - 02:59 AM

Don't you mean use the two flexports for the down-converted RDBS R/LHCP IF signals?

 

If true, wow ... , now 6 lines needed from the LNB to the multiswitch?

 

Definitely only practical for outdoor mounting of the SWiM switch then. 

Yes, these are the IFs


A.K.A VOS

#199 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,767 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:07 AM

If by the time this new LNB is needed they can provide a second generation DSWM, with 20+ SWM channels on a single output in a DSWM LNB....

While I won't say "never", there are no signs of anything more than 13 on a single output.

 

BTW they haven't asked me either on how "I'd have done it". :icon_cool


A.K.A VOS

#200 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

Stuart Sweet

    The Shadow Knows!

  • Super Moderators
  • 36,869 posts
Joined: Jun 18, 2006

Posted 07 December 2013 - 10:31 AM

I think the 6th output on the amplifier (which I'm guessing is the DIRECTV TAMP_6) could be used for running cable modem service.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




Protected By... spam firewall...And...