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Comparing VZ FiOS to D*


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#26 OFFLINE   compnurd

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 07:43 PM

Huh. I get native passthru on D* and ,V*. No secret menus.
Just did another blind compare on ESPN Monday Night Football. My wife and I both chose V*.


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you may have a newer box.  most of the fios boxes are those POS Motorola boxes that dont do native


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#27 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:28 AM

you may have a newer box.  most of the fios boxes are those POS Motorola boxes that dont do native

 

You just access the service menu -- pretty easy.  And the fact you chose native does appear in the regular GUI, and you can switch out of native without going back to the service menu.

 

I had native turned on, but turned it off as I couldn't find any notable difference in PQ yet the channel changes are faster.  They're instantaneous.



#28 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 11:09 AM

wilbur_the_goose, on 03 Nov 2013 - 6:48 PM, said:snapback.png

Equal:
To me, audio quality is identical

 

 
Another fellow member here stated they noticed the audio volume to be noticeably lower on D* then FiOS.... http://www.dbstalk.c...s/#entry3192293
 

Lower volume by itself has nothing to do with quality! 


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#29 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:26 PM

You just access the service menu -- pretty easy.  And the fact you chose native does appear in the regular GUI, and you can switch out of native without going back to the service menu.

 

I had native turned on, but turned it off as I couldn't find any notable difference in PQ yet the channel changes are faster.  They're instantaneous.

 

You need the service menu to get into it. You can get out of it via the normal menus. A service menu is secret. I have seen a drop in quality when I go out of the native mode. However, with my old TV, changing modes with Fios was so annoying (multiple flashes) that I turned it off. I am going to try it again with my new TV, which switches quicker.


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#30 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:28 PM

 

wilbur_the_goose, on 03 Nov 2013 - 6:48 PM, said:snapback.png

 

Lower volume by itself has nothing to do with quality! 

 

 

I have not seen (heard) a volume discrepancy. I switch all the time between the two. If there was, my AVR has an adjustment setting that I could use for volume from different sources.


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#31 OFFLINE   ejbvt

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 05:14 PM

I have not seen (heard) a volume discrepancy. I switch all the time between the two. If there was, my AVR has an adjustment setting that I could use for volume from different sources.

 

With my AVR (Denon), I have my Directv input set with the maximum offset. To balance with the other inputs, most of them are -5. Trouble is, Pandora and YouTube are "normal" so it blasts my ears if I forget to reduce the volume.


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#32 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:56 PM

You need the service menu to get into it. You can get out of it via the normal menus. A service menu is secret. I have seen a drop in quality when I go out of the native mode. However, with my old TV, changing modes with Fios was so annoying (multiple flashes) that I turned it off. I am going to try it again with my new TV, which switches quicker.

 

Well, the 30 second skip on D* DVRs is secret too.  So are all the fancy keywords you can use in autorecord.  I understand where you're coming from, but it's not much of a secret.  My installer asked if I wanted native mode or not.  

 

My TV just had the single 2 second pause when changing resolutions.  Notice I didn't say channels -- as you know (but others might not), if you change from a 1080i to another 1080i channel the screen doesn't flash and the channel change is immediate.  Unfortunately, if you're watching a recording then press "stop", and live TV is tuned to a different resolution channel, the TV screen flashes black for two seconds because of the PIG.  It's that behavior that made me disable native mode.

 

I set it to non-native 1080i.  ESPN is just the tiniest bit blurrier.  It doesn't bother me as I sit far enough from the TV that I can't tell, and I have 20/17 vision.  If I were hosting a Superbowl party and the game was on FOX, I'd switch it to native mode just for that night.  It takes me one minute to reboot and enter the service menu and change it, then the 7232 takes 2-3 minutes to reboot, download all the guide data, and repopulate the entire to do list.  Not a big deal at all.


Edited by bobcamp1, 20 November 2013 - 12:59 PM.


#33 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:27 PM

30 skip and booleans are just "undocumented". A service menu is a little more than that as you don't want people in there, as messing something up can cause serious issues, like changing values in the service menu of a TV.



#34 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 02:51 PM

Have HR44, Roamio Plus, and FiOS 7232 all next to each other. Some day will post my thoughts.
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#35 OFFLINE   wilbur_the_goose

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 08:48 AM

I've been living with both for a while now.  Some more observations:

 

1.  The PQ on FiOS is definitely better across the board.  SD is 100x better, HD is about 5% better.

2.  The D* HR series is the clear winner.  No RF remote control on FiOS, and it's very sensitive to off-axis IR issues.

3.  The FiOS channel placement makes no sense - Makes D* look like it was laid out by a usability expert.

4.  There is no way to hide SD duplicates on FiOS. A clear advantage for D*.

 

Don't shoot me for #1.  It's true - the D* picture quality just isn't what it used to be, in my opinion.

 

PS - I watch a LOT of sports, and that's where I did my PQ compares.


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#36 ONLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 09:52 AM

I've been living with both for a while now.  Some more observations:

 

1.  The PQ on FiOS is definitely better across the board.  SD is 100x better, HD is about 5% better.

2.  The D* HR series is the clear winner.  No RF remote control on FiOS, and it's very sensitive to off-axis IR issues.

3.  The FiOS channel placement makes no sense - Makes D* look like it was laid out by a usability expert.

4.  There is no way to hide SD duplicates on FiOS. A clear advantage for D*.

 

Don't shoot me for #1.  It's true - the D* picture quality just isn't what it used to be, in my opinion.

 

PS - I watch a LOT of sports, and that's where I did my PQ compares.

Those are pretty consistent (and objective) observations that I've seen firsthand and also read from a few other folks.


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#37 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 09:55 AM

2.  The D* HR series is the clear winner.  No RF remote control on FiOS, and it's very sensitive to off-axis IR issues.

 

Agree lack of RF stinks if you need it, but I used my daughter and son-in-law's FiOS DVR a lot over the past 2 weeks, and I have no real issues with it at all. I am now very comfortable with both GUIs and can find things to like and dislike about each. I consider them equal. Just my .02, tho.

 

We got past the lack of IR with a couple of these kits. Their bedroom DVR is hidden in a closet and the living room DVR is located in the basement, along with the rest of the A/V equipment.


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#38 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 09:57 AM

To me, number 2 and 3 outweigh number 1, at least for hd. Number if hd channels or hd quality at some point isn't the most important factor when it's close.

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#39 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:16 AM

I wiped out number #2 by just going with Roamio. The Roamio Slider Pro (keyboard) RF remote is especially nice.

As far as HD ...

DirecTV (Premier) has: 3net,Audience Network, Bloomberg Television, BTN Alternates, CBS Sports Network, Crime & Investigation, Disney Junior, DIY Network, Encore Action, Fox Soccer Plus, Fox Sports 2 (formerly Fuel TV), H2, Hallmark Channel, HLN, MLB Strike Zone, NBC Sports Premier League Extra, NFL Sunday Ticket, OWN, Playboy TV, Sho Beyond, Sho Next, Sho Women, Shorts HD, Starz Cinema, Starz in Black, Starz West, Turner Classic Movies.

FiOS (Ultimate HD) has: Cars.TV, Comedy.TV, Epix, Epix 2, ES.TV, ESPN Goal Line / Buzzer Beater, Fuse, HBO Comedy West, HBO Family West, HBO Latino West, HBO Signature West, HBO Zone West, HSN, Hub, MoreMax West, MyDestination.TV, Outdoor Channel, OuterMax, Oxygen, Pets.TV, Recipe.TV, Sho Extreme West, Showcase West, Showtime 2 West, TVGN, Universal Sports Network, WE tv, Wealth TV, World Fishing Network.

Epix has been a surprise, been recording a bunch of stuff.

Still working on my Roamio vs Genie observations, but's let's just say that there's some new interesting technologies out there.
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#40 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:02 AM

That is a benefit, if you don't like their own equipment, you have other options and not just a crippled thr.

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#41 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:00 PM

The Roamio stuff looks awesome. Haven't personally kicked the tires on it yet, but based on observations from someone whose opinions I trust, it sounds like it's arguably the best DVR out there. That said, I discussed it with my daughter and son-in-law last night, and the value proposition isn't there, especially since they're very happy with their Verizon DVRs.

 

They've got 3 locations right now, with 2 HD DVRs, 4 recording tuners and about 120 hours total of HD storage total. They pay ~$42/month for both DVRs and one HD STB and multi-room service. No upfront dollars required.

 

If they go Roamio, for the cheapest model with built-in MoCA and streaming and two mini clients, they're looking at about $600 hardware costs, with monthly charges of ~$27 to TiVo + $5 to Verizon for the cable card. So they save $10/month over FiOS equipment, but their payback for up-front costs is 5 years, likely longer than the life of the equipment.

 

If they go with "lifetime service", they're looking at $600 in hardware and $800 in "lifetime" for the 3 TiVO boxes, but they'll save $37/month over FiOS. That's a payback of 38 months. Much better, but more cash than able to lay out up front, ATM.


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#42 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:40 PM

Those are pretty consistent (and objective) observations that I've seen firsthand and also read from a few other folks.

 

I've been living with both for a while now.  Some more observations:

 

1.  The PQ on FiOS is definitely better across the board.  SD is 100x better, HD is about 5% better.

2.  The D* HR series is the clear winner.  No RF remote control on FiOS, and it's very sensitive to off-axis IR issues.

3.  The FiOS channel placement makes no sense - Makes D* look like it was laid out by a usability expert.

4.  There is no way to hide SD duplicates on FiOS. A clear advantage for D*.

 

Don't shoot me for #1.  It's true - the D* picture quality just isn't what it used to be, in my opinion.

 

PS - I watch a LOT of sports, and that's where I did my PQ compares.

 

 

1.  Yep.

2.  I find the FIOS DVR is better overall.  It's response is instantaneous, and there is no unexpected lag when using the remote.  The FIOS DVR has a few more quirks and doesn't do as much.   It's a basic DVR.  But what it does it does well.  I agree with the FIOS remote issue, you have to point the remote towards the DVR though not directly at it.

3.  I like the FIOS channel placement.  All similar channels are grouped together, making it easier to find them.  For example, the sports channels are between 570-599.

4.  I miss that the most about D*, though a single push of the 'C' button switches you to the HD version of the channel.  You could also go online and make a favorites list that removes the SD duplicates, but I haven't found the need to do that.

 

I also find myself using on-demand a lot more often with FIOS.



#43 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:50 PM


If they go with "lifetime service", they're looking at $600 in hardware and $800 in "lifetime" for the 3 TiVO boxes, but they'll save $37/month over FiOS. That's a payback of 38 months. Much better, but more cash than they have to lay out up front, ATM.


I'd be careful with lifetime service, if a box goes bad, it can only be transferred to a new one if the old one was still under warranty.

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#44 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 01:06 PM

I'd be careful with lifetime service, if a box goes bad, it can only be transferred to a new one if the old one was still under warranty.

When you activate the lifetime service there's a $39 extended warranty, which can be used once. Any replacement can also get an extended warranty. They also honor other warranties, Best Buy offers a 4 year. Usually the only thing that fails is the hard drive which can easily be replaced. The Roamio self formats easily for replacement or upgrade up to 3TB.
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#45 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:40 PM

My two cents as a long time Tivo owner...

 

I bought a Tivo Premiere when they first came out. Cost me $199 for the box, $39.99 for extended warranty, $299 for lifetime (back then it was $399, and I got a $100 discount for previously owning a Tivo) so $540 total. They were selling for $350-$400 on Ebay this summer before Roamio came out, now they're around $300. They hold resale value really well.

 

Basically in the 3 1/2 years I've owned it, it cost me $240, plus $1.99/month for a cable card. That's only $7/month. True, my warranty ran out six months ago, so if it died the following day I'd have paid $440 for three years (it would still allow a $100 savings on a replacement) or a couple dollars a month more than the less functional cable DVR. I'd pay a couple bucks a month more to rent a Tivo over a cable company DVR so worst case its a wash, and when it lasts longer I come out ahead. Way ahead if it lasts so long I end up selling it while it still works instead of waiting for it to die.

 

You'd have to plug in the numbers for renting a cable company DVR and renting a cable card to see how it works for you. Some companies screw you badly on the cable card to make Tivos a less attractive choice.

 

My one major gripe with Tivo (aside from adding useless features instead of fixing bugs in the main functionality, which is a complaint valid for all DVRs and many product categories for that matter) is that there is no way to transfer all your settings from an old Tivo to a new one. Until they rectify that, I'm never upgrading this one, especially since I see little value in a Roamio over a Premiere.


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#46 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 06:24 PM

I've been living with both for a while now. Some more observations:

1. The PQ on FiOS is definitely better across the board. SD is 100x better, HD is about 5% better.
2. The D* HR series is the clear winner. No RF remote control on FiOS, and it's very sensitive to off-axis IR issues.
3. The FiOS channel placement makes no sense - Makes D* look like it was laid out by a usability expert.
4. There is no way to hide SD duplicates on FiOS. A clear advantage for D*.

Don't shoot me for #1. It's true - the D* picture quality just isn't what it used to be, in my opinion.

PS - I watch a LOT of sports, and that's where I did my PQ compares.


I disagree on #1. If anything, I'd give the 5% to directv. I see small breakdowns on fios I don't see on directv. However, Epix on fios is outstanding. Don't know how it would be on directv, obviously, but it is stunning. Espn actually looks better on directv.

The SD difference goes to fios but nowhere near 100x. Especially when I have direct on original format. Maybe 25-50% better overall though I've seen some channels (Boomerang) which is better on directv but really, really close.

Fios has been playing with their PQ lately. They are transcoding most mpeg4 channels to mpeg2 as they are even more stubborn with legacy than directv and there are reports that they are squeezing some mpeg2 qams.

BTW, my thoughts are with 2 different tvs now as I just got a new one. And most of the time I cannot tell what system I am looking at but when I do comparisons, I see what I see.


Edit to add: PQ for fios is either regional or highly dependent on the box. My sister lives in another county and has on older box. Whichever reason, her PQ is noticeably worse than mine on shared locals and cable channels.

Edited by tonyd79, 29 November 2013 - 06:27 PM.

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#47 OFFLINE   wilbur_the_goose

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 09:30 AM

Tony - thanks for adding your input.   I mostly watch sports, and I'm convinced that FiOS is has better picture quality than DirecTV.

 

I only wish D* would bump their PQ back to what it used to be, but I think we "PQ Snobs" lost out to the people that wanted quantity over quality.

------------------

BTW - I've also been playing with FiOS's VOD.  It's a full technological generation better than D*.  For example, CBS is all HD, and shows start playing in 1080i about 2 seconds after an episode is selected.


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#48 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 04:27 PM

Tony - thanks for adding your input.   I mostly watch sports, and I'm convinced that FiOS is has better picture quality than DirecTV.
 
I only wish D* would bump their PQ back to what it used to be, but I think we "PQ Snobs" lost out to the people that wanted quantity over quality.
------------------
BTW - I've also been playing with FiOS's VOD.  It's a full technological generation better than D*.  For example, CBS is all HD, and shows start playing in 1080i about 2 seconds after an episode is selected.


I haven't seen a drop. And there is zero evidence that there is one.

I will say that for HD, they are extremely close and other factors such as hardware, switches, TV's, etc. probably plays a bigger part than if you have fios or directv.
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#49 OFFLINE   compnurd

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 07:25 PM

The Roamio stuff looks awesome. Haven't personally kicked the tires on it yet, but based on observations from someone whose opinions I trust, it sounds like it's arguably the best DVR out there. That said, I discussed it with my daughter and son-in-law last night, and the value proposition isn't there, especially since they're very happy with their Verizon DVRs.

 

They've got 3 locations right now, with 2 HD DVRs, 4 recording tuners and about 120 hours total of HD storage total. They pay ~$42/month for both DVRs and one HD STB and multi-room service. No upfront dollars required.

 

If they go Roamio, for the cheapest model with built-in MoCA and streaming and two mini clients, they're looking at about $600 hardware costs, with monthly charges of ~$27 to TiVo + $5 to Verizon for the cable card. So they save $10/month over FiOS equipment, but their payback for up-front costs is 5 years, likely longer than the life of the equipment.

 

If they go with "lifetime service", they're looking at $600 in hardware and $800 in "lifetime" for the 3 TiVO boxes, but they'll save $37/month over FiOS. That's a payback of 38 months. Much better, but more cash than able to lay out up front, ATM.

 The Roamio is arguably NOT the best DVR out there.  May want to head over to tivocommunity website.   Many..  Many people with problems with those DVR's and the tuners.... and quite frankly after the Premiere was so slow..  anything faster would be better


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#50 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 07:32 PM

The Roamio is arguably NOT the best DVR out there. May want to head over to tivocommunity website. Many.. Many people with problems with those DVR's and the tuners.... and quite frankly after the Premiere was so slow.. anything faster would be better

Maybe with some with tuning adapters, but just about every review I've seen has been positive. Been A+ for me.
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