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Veterans Day 2013


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34 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:26 PM

My appreciation to all who have served and to all who are serving. It is time to remember those you know who have served. (In our household we take time to remember my wife's sister.)

 

Also, let your Veteran or active duty friends know about the growing 2013 Veterans Day Free Meals and Discounts list.

 

Finally don't forget the DBSTalk Segs4Vets Donation Drive.


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#2 OFFLINE   Supramom2000

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:33 PM

Thank you Phrelin, for bringing this to the forefront.

 

Thank you Veterans and their families!


"But the freedom that they fought for, and the country grand they wrought for, is their monument today, and for aye." "This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave."

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#3 OFFLINE   tsmacro

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:35 PM

Absolutely! Happy Veterans Day to all the Vets! Including my brother, father, three uncles and grandfather!




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#4 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:47 PM

Thank you.

My grandfathers, uncles, father, brother, brother-in-law and myself all served.

Not to brag, but my father went into the Army as a high school drop out with a GED, retired 20 years later as a Major with a BA and MA, did two tours in Vietnam, traveled the world meeting his wife/my mother while stationed in Germany. The military was good to him.

He sent me this today. > http://www.youtube.c..._detail page [1

Thank you to all the veterans out there who have served, and who are currently serving today. God bless.

Edited by TheRatPatrol, 11 November 2013 - 03:48 PM.

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#5 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:26 PM

In our families we have many who served going back at least to the Civil War.

 

Even though he had worked for the Army Corps of Engineers, my dad was really too old to serve at the outbreak of WWII. Nonetheless, he tried to enlist. When they found out he could take shorthand, type, run an adding machine, do bookkeeping, etc., they let him enlist, ran him through a basic Basic, and then - as he described it -had him relieve a WAC for active duty. He served as a company clerk in the Pacific Theater stateside in tough places like the Presidio of Monterey. Nonetheless my mother had his service is noted on his tombstone.

 

My sister-in-law, mentioned in the first post, served in Vietnam as a nurse. An RN, she became a career officer. She wouldn't talk much about the war to any of us. The Army gave her a fantastic deal if she would delay retirement for three years. if you Google her - A. J. Frelin - you get a bunch of results such as this listing. Apparently she was pretty important - she said (at the time a couple of years before "Desert Storm") she was involved in the team redesigning the entire medical care system for desert warfare, so she stayed in. Unfortunately, she lived only five years after retiring dying of something she had been given a partial disability rating for by the Army related to Vietnam. The family is proud of her service. She was one of the smartest, most interesting people I've met in my lifetime.


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#6 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 05:22 PM

Thank you.

My grandfathers, uncles, father, brother, brother-in-law and myself all served.

Not to brag, but my father went into the Army as a high school drop out with a GED, retired 20 years later as a Major with a BA and MA, did two tours in Vietnam, traveled the world meeting his wife/my mother while stationed in Germany. The military was good to him.

He sent me this today. > http://www.youtube.c..._detail page [1

Thank you to all the veterans out there who have served, and who are currently serving today. God bless.

That's a great video. Thanks for sharing it with us.


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#7 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 06:47 PM

Today is only one side of the coin.

Today is for those that survived, while Memorial Day is for our heroes, who didn't.

 

Honor & Duty are more than words, and I hope more will learn what they truly mean.


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#8 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 07:10 PM

I'm sorry but I have a hard time with Veteran's Day. Especially knowing that we have so many great men and women who put their lives on the line everyday protecting us right here at home and they aren't treated with free dinners and applause when they walk in a room.  I'm speaking of our firefighters and local police.   It's time Veteran's Day be expanded to honor not only those who have served our country in the military but to also honor those who serve and protect us right here on our doorstep. 


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#9 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 07:55 PM

I'm sorry but I have a hard time with Veteran's Day....   I'm speaking of our firefighters and local police.   It's time Veteran's Day be expanded to honor not only those who have served our country in the military but to also honor those who serve and protect us right here on our doorstep. 

I don't want to dismiss their service and the danger they face, "but" their commitment isn't the same.

A veteran has signed "a blank check", lasting years.

 

The Police & Fireman generally get to live at home and go to a job.

They retain the ability to quit.

 

Those that haven't served really don't know what is given up to serve.  


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#10 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 09:03 PM

I don't want to dismiss their service and the danger they face, "but" their commitment isn't the same.

A veteran has signed "a blank check", lasting years.

 

The Police & Fireman generally get to live at home and go to a job.

They retain the ability to quit.

 

Those that haven't served really don't know what is given up to serve.  

 

One must remember that today's voluntary service is not like what it was 40 years ago.  Today, when you sign your name on the dotted line you are doing it of your own free will.  I look at things very differently when it comes to those who served and were drafted and those who today who choose to sign up and receive large bonuses. 

I'm sorry but I'm not saying we should not pay honor to those who served our country  but it's time that we need to be thanking everyone who puts their lives on the line for all of us.

 

BTW, I was not allowed to serve due to medical conditions but by no means did it mean I didn't want to. 


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#11 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:12 PM

One must remember that today's voluntary service is not like what it was 40 years ago.  Today, when you sign your name on the dotted line you are doing it of your own free will.  I look at things very differently when it comes to those who served and were drafted and those who today who choose to sign up and receive large bonuses. 

My service was voluntary, but there was no "signing bonus" and the reenlistment bonus wasn't that much.

I don't know what the signing bonuses are these days, but you make it sound like signing for a major sports team, and I'm sure they're not.

 

What most may not understand is:

The rights you signup to defend, are the same rights you surrender doing so.

 

"You don't appreciate what you have, until you don't have them anymore".

 

The Policeman & Fireman haven't surrendered anything.


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#12 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:31 PM

I fully support a National First Responders Day and some have suggested Sep 11th would be an appropriate date for that.

 

But since Veterans Day is on Nov 11th because the armistice that ended 'the war to end all wars' was signed on Nov 11th at 11 AM, I don't think it would be appropriate to add first responders to Veterans Day.



#13 OFFLINE   Supramom2000

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:41 PM

Stop Loss was initiated a long time ago, around 2005. Lots of soldiers cannot get out when their term is up. And we officers can be recalled at any time. I was once.

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#14 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 11:36 PM

Stop Loss was initiated a long time ago, around 2005. Lots of soldiers cannot get out when their term is up. And we officers can be recalled at any time. I was once.

"Ah yes" and don't forget the 2 years reserve status after you've finished your 4 years.

 

I checked into the signing bonus and found the Air Force bonuses for 2006-09.

If you go into a critical field, you can get a "whopping" $3,000 for your 4 years.

Sign up for 6 years and you get  into "the real money" of $13,000.

So $750/year or $2,100+ if you go for the long haul.

How many want to lock themselves in for SIX YEARS?


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#15 OFFLINE   Supramom2000

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 12:01 AM

Police and fire don't get moved every 2-4 years, costing the family literally thousands of dollars.  The spouse has to get a new job each time, the kids have to start new schools each time.  And many families lose their pets.  Either due to breed restrictions at post housing or overseas. Or the cost of trying to board them while finding or waiting for a home.  We had to board a 120 pound shepherd and 3 cats when were assigned to Little Rock Air Force Base as Army.  There was no base housing, no housing in 30 miles, and the only house we could afford (45 minutes away) was not going to be available for a month.  Oh, and I was 32 weeks pregnant with twin boys when we arrived.  (I was the dependent spouse then!).  So no one would hire me.


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#16 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 01:18 AM

I'm sorry but I have a hard time with Veteran's Day. Especially knowing that we have so many great men and women who put their lives on the line everyday protecting us right here at home and they aren't treated with free dinners and applause when they walk in a room.  I'm speaking of our firefighters and local police.   It's time Veteran's Day be expanded to honor not only those who have served our country in the military but to also honor those who serve and protect us right here on our doorstep. 

 

There are about 795,000 police officers in the U.S. and it is nearly impossible to get close to accurate numbers for fire departments because 87% are volunteer or mostly volunteer departments, but suffice it to say there are over a million. The U.S. has about 1.5 million active military and about 900,000 in reserves.

 

In my life have had to attend more than one funeral for police officers and firefighters. As of today in the U.S. there were 90 police officer deaths and 81 firefighter deaths this year. Over the ten year period from 2003-2013 there have been 6,776 members of the U.S. military killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. I've never been uncomfortable thinking that Memorial Day honored all of those who died "in the line of duty" be it "civilian" or "military." But...

 

Veteran's Day was and is about service to the Nation involving a commitment that is significantly different than the police or fire services.

 

When you go into the military they take title to your life. You can't get up in the morning and decide to call your boss and quit your job. And, as has been pointed out here, once you have been in and served your tour, they still can pick up the phone and tell you to stop working at your really good job and go to Afghanistan for a year or two. It is not similar to being a cop or firefighter.

 

So we say thanks to those who served in the military - even those who were conscripted (a term meaning "compulsory enrollment of persons for military service"). It seems like the least we could do here in a country that essentially has been fighting wars somewhere in the world my entire lifetime, some of which were not well thought out by the politicians who decided to fight them. These are the politicians who we put in office by voting or choosing not to vote and thereby granted them the right to screw with the lives of a couple of million members of the military and their families.

 

I don't minimize what our emergency responders do, but their employment terms are radically different from those in the military.


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#17 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 05:34 AM

Policemen are honored every year on 15 May (Peace Officer's Memorial Day created on 1 October 61). Firemen are honored every year on 4 May (International Firefighter's Day instituted on 4 January 99). I fail to see the need or want to incorporate honoring them on Veteran's Day.


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#18 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 05:53 AM

"Ah yes" and don't forget the 2 years reserve status after you've finished your 4 years.

 

I checked into the signing bonus and found the Air Force bonuses for 2006-09.

If you go into a critical field, you can get a "whopping" $3,000 for your 4 years.

Sign up for 6 years and you get  into "the real money" of $13,000.

So $750/year or $2,100+ if you go for the long haul.

How many want to lock themselves in for SIX YEARS?

 

My neighbors kid just signed up for the navy and received a $10,000 bonus and upon completing their CHOSEN 4 year hitch will receive an additional $25,000 $50,000 not to mention all the benefits which go with it..

 

Edit: correcting bonus being offered to the neighbors kid was $50,000 provided he agreed to a 4 year hitch with at least 1 year at sea. He is also free to leave the service after 2 years and receive half that.  


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#19 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:06 AM

Police and fire don't get moved every 2-4 years, costing the family literally thousands of dollars.  The spouse has to get a new job each time, the kids have to start new schools each time.  And many families lose their pets.  Either due to breed restrictions at post housing or overseas. Or the cost of trying to board them while finding or waiting for a home.  We had to board a 120 pound shepherd and 3 cats when were assigned to Little Rock Air Force Base as Army.  There was no base housing, no housing in 30 miles, and the only house we could afford (45 minutes away) was not going to be available for a month.  Oh, and I was 32 weeks pregnant with twin boys when we arrived.  (I was the dependent spouse then!).  So no one would hire me.

 

I'm sorry to have to say this but that's a risk you assume when a member of your family choose the military as their career. 


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#20 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:41 AM

"Ah yes" and don't forget the 2 years reserve status after you've finished your 4 years.
 
I checked into the signing bonus and found the Air Force bonuses for 2006-09.
If you go into a critical field, you can get a "whopping" $3,000 for your 4 years.
Sign up for 6 years and you get  into "the real money" of $13,000.
So $750/year or $2,100+ if you go for the long haul.
How many want to lock themselves in for SIX YEARS?

  

There are plenty of people that would love a guaranteed six year job with benefits, housing, food, clothing, medical, dental, GI bill plus $13,000 to sign up, thats a lot of money to a young kid. When you're young those six years will go by quick.

My neighbors kid just signed up for the navy and received a $10,000 bonus and upon completing their CHOSEN 4 year hitch will receive an additional $25,000 not to mention all the benefits which go with it..


Exactly, plus the experience they will gain.

If I would have stayed in I could have retired in 4 more years with a pension and medical coverage the rest of my life. Thats life though.

#21 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:42 AM

Policemen are honored every year on 15 May (Peace Officer's Memorial Day created on 1 October 61). Firemen are honored every year on 4 May (International Firefighter's Day instituted on 4 January 99). I fail to see the need or want to incorporate honoring them on Veteran's Day.

 

I wonder how many people actually know these days exist?  I doubt very many. I don't see many Peace Officer Memorial Day parades or sales out there.  

 

Today's military is not what it was 40 years ago. Today, you are not required to serve and you made the choice to sign up your own free will.

While separation from the service is not as easy as just picking up the phone and saying 'Take this job and have it' while you are under contract (FYI, my niece separated from the air force some 18 months early so it's not impossible) but I might also point out that contracts are signed all the time in the private sector which can carry great risks for failure to complete as well. 

 

Again, I am not saying that we should not have a holiday to honor those who serve but it's time we honor everyone who serves and protects our country on all levels.


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#22 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 07:35 AM

Fluffy, you're mixing apples with oranges. Firefighters and policemen are not conscripted. They "chose" their professions of their own free will, same as those who enter the military. But unlike those in the military they only place themselves in harms way during their shift. At the end of that shift they go home, relax, spend time with their loved ones, and enjoy themselves. Those in the military serving in a theater of operations are in harms way 24/7 for the length of their tour. They rarely get to relax and enjoy themselves and cannot spend time with their loved ones. There's a big difference between being a firemen or policemen and being a soldier so please don't place them in the same category. Firefighters and policemen have their day of remembrance. If you feel there should be more fanfare then take the initiative to create that fanfare but leave Veteran's Day out of it. 


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#23 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 08:50 AM

I have the utmost respect for police and fire. I work closely with them and know a great many.  I have done police ride-alongs and 911 plug-ins, both of which help you see what officers actually do and deal with on a daily basis. I've gone through a fair amount of actual police training and am actually credentialed (not sworn) with the Seattle Police Department.

 

I am also a veteran, having served in the US Army for many years. I've looked into the wrong end of a bullet launcher. I've experienced the various hardships that have been mentioned in this thread including family separations and issues.

 

There is absolutely NO comparison between the two. I do agree with the concept of honoring them. I do NOT agree with making any type of change to Veterans Day and what it means.

 

Everyone is entitled to their individual opinion, but if you haven't been there and done that, you cannot possibly understand what military service is about or what Veterans Day really means.



#24 OFFLINE   Supramom2000

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 09:38 AM

One might also ask why the bonuses now offered have to be so high. Police and fire are turning down people. Spokane hasn't hired new fire in years. They don't need bonuses to get recruits. Hubby was a cop and an MP in the Army. His Army years were much harder. I don't have the same perspective as him, but I saw it from the spouse side. My Reserve time had me on call for years after getting out due to the ongoing wars.

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#25 OFFLINE   Supramom2000

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 09:40 AM

And what does the fact that military members choose to sign up have to do with the differences in sacrifice?

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