Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

The Black List: "General Ludd" OAD 11-11-13


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   TomCat

TomCat

    Broadcast Engineer

  • Registered
  • 3,530 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2002

Posted 12 November 2013 - 01:34 PM

OK, I know I just posted in another thread saying that you have to ignore continuity errors and things that don't make a lot of sense.

 

But there is a line.

 

Two things I have trouble tolerating:

 

1) when the writers go to the trouble of introducing a character and then establishing their motivation, and then have them do something that undermines that.

 

2) when the laws of physics are significantly violated.

 

The Black List is not guilty of #1, to my knowledge, but this episode all but flaunts #2, which kind of makes the whole episode "#2", if you get my drift.

 

Things that fall from a great height

Spoiler

 

I guess it is due to creative license, but it still irks me. The producers wanted to make the opening scene dramatic, and violated the laws of physics to do so. Sorry, I have a problem with that.

 

Not as flagrant as Marvel's AOS trying to plug a hole in an airplane with an inflatable plastic life raft, but still irksome.

 

Of course in Star Wars explosions in space have corresponding audio, even though there is no medium to transport audio in outer space. I guess I cut them a break on that one; it would be difficult to tell the story if reality gets in the way.


It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   Drucifer

Drucifer

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 7,835 posts
  • LocationNY Hudson Valley
Joined: Feb 12, 2009

Posted 12 November 2013 - 04:39 PM

Yep the dramatic effect definitely took priority over science. But in this case, I vote the dramatic effect was the way to go. As having everything plop almost simultaneously, while also dramatic would have been too costly.   


DREW

Do it Right, Do it Once
LR: HR34-7, Den: HR24-1, MB: HR24-5, Bsm: HR21-2, Kit: H25-5
PrimeStar '95, DirecTV  '00


#3 OFFLINE   dpeters11

dpeters11

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,645 posts
  • LocationCincinnati
Joined: May 30, 2007

Posted 12 November 2013 - 09:27 PM

Even the movie Gravity, which does 1000 things right, took liberties for the story.



#4 OFFLINE   phrelin

phrelin

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 13,371 posts
  • LocationNorthern California Redwoods
Joined: Jan 18, 2007

Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:18 PM

Hmmm. When something inside an object blows up, different pieces can be sent in different directions. Thus when an object is in the air moving at some significant speed something may be sent up first while something else may be sent down at a high initial velocity. Other pieces may be shot left, right, back or even accelerated forward.

 

Hence in the very extreme case of the Shuttle Columbia rentry disaster:

 

More than 2,000 debris fields were found in sparsely populated areas from Nacogdoches in East Texas, where a large amount of debris fell, to western Louisiana and the southwestern counties of Arkansas. One debris field has been mapped along a path stretching from south of Fort Worth to Hemphill, Texas, as well as into parts of Louisiana.

 

So to me the incident portrayed was sufficiently within my acceptable limits that only require mild suspension of disbelief.


"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
My AV Setup
My Slingbox Pro HD Experience
My Blog: The Redwood Guardian


#5 OFFLINE   cj9788

cj9788

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,659 posts
Joined: May 14, 2003

Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:40 PM

I was more intrigued with Lizzie's dad. Did they mention she was adopted from the beginning? It does give more of an indication that Red is her father but I would like to think there is more to the story than a father connecting with a long lost daughter. Either way I am enjoying the ride and could careless that parts of a blown up plane landed at different times ignoring the laws of gravity whopty freaking doo.


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk

#6 OFFLINE   TomCat

TomCat

    Broadcast Engineer

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 3,530 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2002

Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:14 PM

Oh yeah. It's a really great show, and probably the best of the fall crop. And yes, a show that makes up for any small issues by being pretty fantastic buys them a loooooooooot of license. But when your show is a popcorn summer throwaway where a dome falls and cuts a cow in half and the inside of the cow looks nothing like the inside of a cow, you don't have as much license to get away with that.

 

The father theory seems to be falling into place more all the time, but it just feels too obvious, and too on the nose. They are much more clever than that, and I would not be surprised by it being a complete head fake, and the story taking an abrupt left turn somewhere regarding that aspect.

 

What we know is true is that Red has an emotional attachment. His connection with Lizzie is not just opportunistic, making the most opportunistic person on earth enigmatic, and just that much more interesting. And what a tour-de-force for James Spader. Just hand him the Emmy right now.

 

Phre, I love ya, but your example undermines your point. It illustrates a debris field several hundred miles long, but all that implies is that stuff sprayed out in many directions, some being with the wind, some being against the wind, and all falling to earth in concert with the laws of physics.

 

In "General Ludd", we see a shoe fall, and pretty slowly, straight down and making a tiny plop, followed by a passenger in his seat, again falling straight down, and hitting the ground with about the same intensity, at a velocity equivalent to being pushed off a garage roof. Next we see an entire multi-ton landing gear drift gently straight down to earth like its in slow motion, and with all that mass still only partially crush a vehicle. A few seconds later lots of shrapnel comes straight down at a very much higher velocity. All of that happens in a 100-ft radius, not a 1000-mile debris field, and none of that makes any physical sense, and none of the timing of what hit when and what hit first and last and how much energy each object displayed concurrent with its mass and velocity, makes any logical sense either.

 

I've read that if you parachute out of a plane and your chute does not open, you will create a "bathtub", a depression in the ground that may be several feet deep. A 200-lb man at terminal velocity would probably do that. Why? Because falling objects always follow the laws of physics.

 

The opening scene was dramatic, I'll give them that. But I feel that just plain crazy disregard for the physical world undermined its effectiveness. That's all.

 

But I got over it pretty quickly.


Edited by TomCat, 13 November 2013 - 08:22 PM.

It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

#7 OFFLINE   phrelin

phrelin

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 13,371 posts
  • LocationNorthern California Redwoods
Joined: Jan 18, 2007

Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:52 AM

Phre, I love ya, but your example undermines your point. It illustrates a debris field several hundred miles long, but all that implies is that stuff sprayed out in many directions, some being with the wind, some being against the wind, and all falling to earth in concert with the laws of physics.
 
In "General Ludd", we see a shoe fall, and pretty slowly, straight down and making a tiny plop, followed by a passenger in his seat, again falling straight down, and hitting the ground with about the same intensity, at a velocity equivalent to being pushed off a garage roof. Next we see an entire multi-ton landing gear drift gently straight down to earth like its in slow motion, and with all that mass still only partially crush a vehicle. A few seconds later lots of shrapnel comes straight down at a very much higher velocity. All of that happens in a 100-ft radius, not a 1000-mile debris field, and none of that makes any physical sense, and none of the timing of what hit when and what hit first and last and how much energy each object displayed concurrent with its mass and velocity, makes any logical sense either.
 
I've read that if you parachute out of a plane and your chute does not open, you will create a "bathtub", a depression in the ground that may be several feet deep. A 200-lb man at terminal velocity would probably do that. Why? Because falling objects always follow the laws of physics.
 
The opening scene was dramatic, I'll give them that. But I feel that just plain crazy disregard for the physical world undermined its effectiveness. That's all.
 
But I got over it pretty quickly.

As I said, for me it only required a mild suspension of disbelief. I understand that for some any suspension of disbelief in a show that, while obviously fiction, doesn't purport to be scifi or fantasy is difficult.

I appreciate the love by the way. I need all I can get, as we all do.

"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
My AV Setup
My Slingbox Pro HD Experience
My Blog: The Redwood Guardian


#8 OFFLINE   tsmacro

tsmacro

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,151 posts
  • LocationEast Central Indiana
Joined: Apr 28, 2005

Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:45 PM

I was more intrigued with Lizzie's dad. Did they mention she was adopted from the beginning? It does give more of an indication that Red is her father but I would like to think there is more to the story than a father connecting with a long lost daughter. Either way I am enjoying the ride and could careless that parts of a blown up plane landed at different times ignoring the laws of gravity whopty freaking doo.


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk

I thought they were being so obvious about this in episode #1 that I figured by the end of that episode we were going to get the big reveal and then part of the premise of the show was that Lizzie was going to have to deal with getting to know a father she never knew and trying to deal with all the horrible things he's done and if he's capable of such things, what does that say about her, does that mean she could be too or something along those lines. Well they didn't go there and the fact that they have been so obvious about that premise that not even a blind man could miss it I'm also thinking they're going to throw us some kind of curve and Red isn't her father but there's some other story that links them.




"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." - Douglas Adams

"Who would rule a nation when he could have easier work, such as carrying water uphill in a sieve?" - Robert Jordan


#9 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

MysteryMan

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 6,593 posts
  • LocationUSA
Joined: May 17, 2010

Posted 15 November 2013 - 05:12 PM

I was more intrigued with Lizzie's dad. Did they mention she was adopted from the beginning? It does give more of an indication that Red is her father but I would like to think there is more to the story than a father connecting with a long lost daughter. Either way I am enjoying the ride and could careless that parts of a blown up plane landed at different times ignoring the laws of gravity whopty freaking doo.


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk

There is more to the story. Why is the scar/brand on her hand and wrist similar to the engraving on the box found hidden under her apartment floor and what do they mean?


DirecTV customer since 1995.


#10 OFFLINE   TomCat

TomCat

    Broadcast Engineer

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 3,530 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2002

Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:45 AM

As I said, for me it only required a mild suspension of disbelief. I understand that for some any suspension of disbelief in a show that, while obviously fiction, doesn't purport to be scifi or fantasy is difficult.

I appreciate the love by the way. I need all I can get, as we all do.

C'mon, Phre; you"re the heart and soul of this forum.

 

I did not sum up my point earlier, which is that I don't take issue with a large debris field which I think is normal. My issue is with the timing of when debris lands and what velocity it has appropriate with its mass, wind load, and height. We were shown a very small part of this debris field, but expected to accept the odd timing and lack of velocity. A purely vertical trajectory also seems a little thin.

 

One thing about the father theory that rings true is that Red may not want to reveal this, because knowing her father has done terrible things may hurt Lizzie. So him playing this close to the vest is not unexpected.


It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

#11 OFFLINE   n3ntj

n3ntj

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,700 posts
Joined: Dec 18, 2006

Posted 17 November 2013 - 12:15 PM

Apparently someone running things on this show does not know objects follow the 9.81 m/s^2 acceleration of gravity.  When I saw the show, I told my wife of this error, and she know I'd mention it, me being an engineer.  The objects of this plane explosion would fall at essentially the same rate to the ground and hit around the same time... with the exception of parts that were shot out upwards vs. downwards from the event.


Edited by n3ntj, 21 November 2013 - 08:20 AM.

HD Snob - "Friends Don't Let Friends Watch Cable".
Electrical/RF Engineer & Inspector
DirecTV Equipment: HR24-200, HR24-100, 5LNB Slimline, AM21, SWiM 8 installed (MRV)
HR-2x Configuration: Native OFF. Units OFF when not in use.
TVs: 2 Panasonic Plasma TV's each using HDMI (one 1080p/one 720p)
DirecTV customer since 1998. Plus HD DVR package w/ NHL Center Ice & MLB Extra Innings.
OTA Antenna: Homebrew UHF & VHF antennas w/ 30dB amplifier fed w/ RG-6 Quad-shield coax.

#12 OFFLINE   longrider

longrider

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 3,064 posts
  • LocationElizabeth, CO
Joined: Apr 21, 2007

Posted 17 November 2013 - 01:57 PM

I guess I am just lucky that while I know and understand the science it doesn't even hit me when I watch the show. I am not a regular watcher of the Black List but I saw this episode and this scene just hit me as good drama. In hindsight I agree the science is way off but at the time i did not even think of it. It is like hearing spaceships explode, while that is impossible I dont think about it when watching the show.


My Setup





spam firewall