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Genie Install - Is Multiswitch Replacement All that is Needed?


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#1 OFFLINE   j-man

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:16 PM

Can an AT-9 Dish be used for a Geni install?

 I currently have an AT-9 Dish with the 6x8 Zinwell multiswitch (4 cables from dish to switch, then 8 cables to 4 different HD Receivers).

Customer service says no issue with current dish.

I know I'm going to need a 16SWM multiswitch as I will end up with 11 tuners needed (5 genie, and 3 HD-DVRs with 2 each).

Is it simplly a matter of keeping same dish and replacing the multiswitch?

I can see me getting the run-around by the installer if they have to change the dish.  7 Years ago when I built the house - I was able to get installer to put dish on a tree.  I know they pretty much won't do that anymore - so if my dish needs changing out - I can hear the run around coming.

 

So is this wishfull thinking that I only need a multiswitch change out?  Or is there a new LNB or Dish that is also needed.

 

Thanks.



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#2 OFFLINE   otaliema

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:37 PM

Yes all they would need to do is install the switch. How ever;

I'm not sure if they will though as my understanding is that once they install it their name is on it and if any problem pops up from the existing install they get in trouble (back charged) for the re-roll on the second tech so they my not do the install anyways with your dish in a tree. and the re-roll window is longer than the 90 day worry free you get with out being charged. 

unless the tree is dead or a very very slow growing species they are not used as it moves the dish and causes signal problems. 


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They DO NOT reflect on DIRECTV and or any partner, affiliated company's, polices, processes, opinions, or things that are not listed here.

Set up. HR24-200, HR24-200, HR22-200, H23-600. Whole Home, BBCCK, SL3 SWiM.

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#3 OFFLINE   bpratt

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:52 PM

I also have an unsupported setup and rather than having DirecTV insist on changing it, I ordered the SWM8 Multiswitch, a power inserter and a 4 way splitter from Amazon and replaced it myself.

Here is the link to the SWM16 Multiswitch and the power inserter.
http://www.amazon.co...m16 multiswitch

And here is a 4 way splitter. You only need 1 coax to each DVR.
http://www.amazon.co.../ref=pd_sim_e_2

I ordered my HR44-500 from Weeknees and DirecTV gave me a $100 credit and $30 off my bill for the next 12 months which will pay for everything I purchased.

Edited by bpratt, 09 December 2013 - 05:57 PM.

HR10-250   550G WD  6.4a
HR21-700   750G WD 0x08ca AM21
HR21-700 2000G WD 0x08ca AM21
HR44-500 2000G WD 0x093d
DirecTV since 1997


#4 OFFLINE   j-man

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 06:20 PM

Ok

 

Thanks for the info.

 

We'll see what they say - been delayed for 2 days from snow here in no-cal.  I'm typically of the if it ain't broke don't fix it mind set. 

 

Simple enough for me to switch out the multi-switch and add a splitter,  But DTV is offering me the upgrade for 49 bucks for everything so figured I'd try to take advantage.

 

Have WHDVR right now on all receivers - so not hampered too much if I don't get the Geni.  Would like the PIP and 5 tuners though.

 

Question - if I already have ethernet to all my receivers -does SWIM take over that or do I or can I keep everything Ethernet?

 

D-TVs name is already on the install as it was D-TV that said they would put it in the tree as that was best location for line of sight so I'll lean on them a bit if I get some grief.\  Its a western red cedar that is about 80-100 feet tall - dish is probably 10-12 feet up - that sucker doesn't move at all in some of the nastiest storms - have had zero issues in 7 years. I don't have much heartburn keeping my existing setup.  Simple enough for me to swap out myself if I feel the need later.

 

Thanks again.



#5 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 09:52 PM

 7 Years ago when I built the house - I was able to get installer to put dish on a tree.  I know they pretty much won't do that anymore - so if my dish needs changing out - I can hear the run around coming.

 

So is this wishfull thinking that I only need a multiswitch change out?  Or is there a new LNB or Dish that is also needed.

 

Thanks.

 

A good respected tech would not touch your install, unless it can be mounted on a pole.  Many things have change in 7 years.  Things have gotten more strict 

 

Question - if I already have ethernet to all my receivers -does SWIM take over that or do I or can I keep everything Ethernet?

 

 

With SWM, you only need one connection to the net, being by a DECA or by using the Genie as a bridge


Here’s to the crazy ones.
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#6 OFFLINE   bpratt

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 04:16 PM

Question - if I already have ethernet to all my receivers -does SWIM take over that or do I or can I keep everything Ethernet?

You could add a DECA but if you already have Ethernet to all your receivers, I would just leave it that way and run another Ethernet to your Genie. That's what I did.

HR10-250   550G WD  6.4a
HR21-700   750G WD 0x08ca AM21
HR21-700 2000G WD 0x08ca AM21
HR44-500 2000G WD 0x093d
DirecTV since 1997


#7 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:20 PM

You could add a DECA but if you already have Ethernet to all your receivers, I would just leave it that way and run another Ethernet to your Genie. That's what I did.

just because you did it does not make it right.  There are many advantages why DECA is a better option.  less cabling, DirecTV approved are among those

 

and why run another cable when you can do without it


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#8 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:28 PM

You could add a DECA but if you already have Ethernet to all your receivers, I would just leave it that way and run another Ethernet to your Genie. That's what I did.

 

I hope you also added the proper BSF to your system as well...



#9 OFFLINE   bpratt

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 10:47 PM

The Topic Starter asked this question:
"Question - if I already have ethernet to all my receivers -does SWIM take over that or do I or can I keep everything Ethernet?"
I simply answered it with yes you can keep everything Ethernet.

DirecTV DVRs were all originally hard wired Ethernet. They created DECA because many homes in the US were built with a single coax cable run to each TV location. DECA gave DirecTV a way to get Ethernet to DVR locations without having to run any more cables. DECA is not better than hard wired Ethernet, it's just another way of getting Ethernet to the DVR. Both ways work.

HR10-250   550G WD  6.4a
HR21-700   750G WD 0x08ca AM21
HR21-700 2000G WD 0x08ca AM21
HR44-500 2000G WD 0x093d
DirecTV since 1997


#10 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 12:27 AM

I'd disagree with that. Ethernet was there looking at Video On Demand and such. But Whole Home Service was never designed by them to work specifically over Ethernet. Deca was designed strictly for Whole Home Service and to keep the stream in its own cloud and isolated and for ease if install. They just had to use what they had available hardware wise which meant utilizing Ethernet connections on pre existing equipment. If that wasn't the case you wouldn't have the h25 or genie minis.

#11 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:50 PM

The Topic Starter asked this question:
"Question - if I already have ethernet to all my receivers -does SWIM take over that or do I or can I keep everything Ethernet?"
I simply answered it with yes you can keep everything Ethernet.

DirecTV DVRs were all originally hard wired Ethernet. They created DECA because many homes in the US were built with a single coax cable run to each TV location. DECA gave DirecTV a way to get Ethernet to DVR locations without having to run any more cables. DECA is not better than hard wired Ethernet, it's just another way of getting Ethernet to the DVR. Both ways work.

Right, that makes is better.  you are suggesting to run an extra (additional cable) when you don't have to if you sue DECA>


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#12 OFFLINE   bpratt

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:36 AM

Right, that makes is better.  you are suggesting to run an extra (additional cable) when you don't have to if you sue DECA>


When I decided to get an HR44, I did not have a SWM system. DirecTV told me that they would replace the LNBs on my dish and I would need to replace my HR10-250 because it did not work with a SWM connection. My wife really likes the HR10-250 and records a lot of local channels in HD on it. I ask D* if they would replace my multiswitch with a SWM8 multiswitch because it has legacy ports that would allow me to connect to the HR10-250. They said no. So I decided to purchase a SWM8 multiswitch, the power inserter and a 4 way splitter and change it myself. I could have purchased a DECA, but since all my DVRs were currently connected to an Ethernet switch and the new HR44 would install about 3 feet from the Ethernet switch, the simple solution for me was to run an Ethernet connection to my new HR44-500.

Since I did that, everything has worked perfectly. I never lose the Ethernet connection, MRV and On Demand always work, so why would I change my current setup? I am not saying that DECA is not the way for most installations to go. But for some of us, a hard wired Ethernet connection makes the most sense.

HR10-250   550G WD  6.4a
HR21-700   750G WD 0x08ca AM21
HR21-700 2000G WD 0x08ca AM21
HR44-500 2000G WD 0x093d
DirecTV since 1997


#13 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:40 PM

When I decided to get an HR44, I did not have a SWM system. DirecTV told me that they would replace the LNBs on my dish and I would need to replace my HR10-250 because it did not work with a SWM connection. My wife really likes the HR10-250 and records a lot of local channels in HD on it. I ask D* if they would replace my multiswitch with a SWM8 multiswitch because it has legacy ports that would allow me to connect to the HR10-250. They said no. So I decided to purchase a SWM8 multiswitch, the power inserter and a 4 way splitter and change it myself. I could have purchased a DECA, but since all my DVRs were currently connected to an Ethernet switch and the new HR44 would install about 3 feet from the Ethernet switch, the simple solution for me was to run an Ethernet connection to my new HR44-500.

Since I did that, everything has worked perfectly. I never lose the Ethernet connection, MRV and On Demand always work, so why would I change my current setup? I am not saying that DECA is not the way for most installations to go. But for some of us, a hard wired Ethernet connection makes the most sense.

no one is saying you have to change yours, but to advise against it, just because you did, well that is just not good advise on my books.  BTW, I also run ethernet on my set up (personal choice and some technical) but I always advise DECA is the way to go.


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


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#14 OFFLINE   j-man

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 07:28 PM

Install happened today. No issue with having dish on tree, installer didn't even mention it. The only hiccup was with DECA, installer said he needed to add to get to other receivers. As soon as he added lost internet access on all my in home devices. I plugged directly into DSL modem and had no issues to internet. Asked installer why he added DECA since I already had receivers talking on home wired Ethernet network. He was just following protocol I suspect.I suggested he remove DECA. As soon as he did everything came back up fine. So some DECA conflict with my home net. Since everything works with no DECA on my in home wired net, which I would expect it to, didn't bother diving in to shoot the issue. So geni and 3 other hd dvrs all working fine with new 16swm multi switch and my old trustworthy AT9. Hr44 much more snappy then my old dvrs. Liking it so far.

#15 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 07:35 PM

When I decided to get an HR44, I did not have a SWM system. DirecTV told me that they would replace the LNBs on my dish and I would need to replace my HR10-250 because it did not work with a SWM connection. My wife really likes the HR10-250 and records a lot of local channels in HD on it. I ask D* if they would replace my multiswitch with a SWM8 multiswitch because it has legacy ports that would allow me to connect to the HR10-250. They said no. So I decided to purchase a SWM8 multiswitch, the power inserter and a 4 way splitter and change it myself. I could have purchased a DECA, but since all my DVRs were currently connected to an Ethernet switch and the new HR44 would install about 3 feet from the Ethernet switch, the simple solution for me was to run an Ethernet connection to my new HR44-500.

Since I did that, everything has worked perfectly. I never lose the Ethernet connection, MRV and On Demand always work, so why would I change my current setup? I am not saying that DECA is not the way for most installations to go. But for some of us, a hard wired Ethernet connection makes the most sense.


Hope you installed a bsf as far from the hr44 as possible.

#16 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 07:39 PM

Install happened today. No issue with having dish on tree, installer didn't even mention it. The only hiccup was with DECA, installer said he needed to add to get to other receivers. As soon as he added lost internet access on all my in home devices. I plugged directly into DSL modem and had no issues to internet. Asked installer why he added DECA since I already had receivers talking on home wired Ethernet network. He was just following protocol I suspect.I suggested he remove DECA. As soon as he did everything came back up fine. So some DECA conflict with my home net. Since everything works with no DECA on my in home wired net, which I would expect it to, didn't bother diving in to shoot the issue. So geni and 3 other hd dvrs all working fine with new 16swm multi switch and my old trustworthy AT9. Hr44 much more snappy then my old dvrs. Liking it so far.


Then again I hope a bsf was installed properly I'll bet the deca issue was how it was hooked up and a cable left unplugged for your network somewhere. Deca should never shut down you home network.

Also I can't believe they left you with a at9.

#17 OFFLINE   j-man

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:11 PM

No need for a bsf, I'm not running DECA, I've been running whdvr over home Ethernet since the service was offered and have had zero issues, and no issues since install with multiple devices accessing internet, pandora on dvr and pulling content from whdvr between rooms. No cable was left unplugged, everything is in an Ethernet switch at the headend. As soon as he removed DECA module from the remote receivers home network came back. At9 is fine, all signals are 92 plus, why switch a dish if not needed. All he had to do was add swm16 multiswitch,power and splitter.

#18 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:46 PM

No need for a bsf, I'm not running DECA,

Because you are not using DECA you need a BSF.  the HR44 is still sending "DECA signals" on the coax network which can affect other receivers which were not built to "see" this signals 


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#19 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:59 PM

Because you are not using DECA you need a BSF.  the HR44 is still sending "DECA signals" on the coax network which can affect other receivers which were not built to "see" this signals 

 

No need for a bsf, I'm not running DECA, I've been running whdvr over home Ethernet since the service was offered and have had zero issues, and no issues since install with multiple devices accessing internet, pandora on dvr and pulling content from whdvr between rooms. No cable was left unplugged, everything is in an Ethernet switch at the headend. As soon as he removed DECA module from the remote receivers home network came back. At9 is fine, all signals are 92 plus, why switch a dish if not needed. All he had to do was add swm16 multiswitch,power and splitter.

 

 

Because of what PEDs said, there is definitely a need for a bsf in your system.  A genie isn't like other receivers.  You need a bsf properly placed and not right at the hr44 either...  It may eventually hurt your other receivers tuners if you don't add a bsf.

 

And I still don't get the Ethernet having an issue.  Maybe you needed to simply reboot the router or something.  DECA just doesn't wipe out home networks, its transparent to them. Or if he had hooked up a BBDECA as well as your hr44 to Ethernet that was the issue.  Again, something just weird there, and I'm only curios because its just not normal, As long as your set up right, till you have issues no need to change to deca if you really don't want to.  But when someone says it doesn't work and kills their home network, I just want to know why that happened for future reference, or better, what really was going on to cause any issues.  You'd have to describe everything he did with deca though to really figure out where it went wrong.

 

And Id change that dish because someday it will be an issue, the side cars have more failures than most because of the exposed wires.  I thought techs where supposed to replace them on site at one point just to not have to make another call at some point latter for them.   Maybe not..  The side car was just a bad design IMHO with exposed wires.  Plus they arent aimed quite the same way as the newer dishes.  One of the few things where I say even if its not broke, fix it before it is..  But hey, if its working, hopefully it will for a long time for you...  Its just a really weak link IMHO. But the dish may just be me being crazy...  ;)



#20 OFFLINE   j-man

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:02 PM

Affect them how? I have hr21, 22 and 24 and 44. I have Ethernet to all, no DECA or coax networking, whatever you want to call it. From what I see, even if using DECA no bsf needed for receivers I have, unless I'm reading something incorrectly. If the dvrs are all networked via Ethernet, isn't the coax networking disabled? I was lucky I guess a few years ago when whdvr was released. I called up said I already had home network and receivers connected and would like whdvr activated and pay the 3 bucks understanding I was in an unsupported configuration. They turned it on and no issues. All seems to be working fine now after geni install once he removed DECA equipment.




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