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Genie Install - Is Multiswitch Replacement All that is Needed?


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#21 OFFLINE   j-man

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:08 PM

Because of what PEDs said, there is definitely a need for a bsf in your system. A genie isn't like other receivers. You need a bsf properly placed and not right at the hr44 either... It may eventually hurt your other receivers tuners if you don't add a bsf.

And I still don't get the Ethernet having an issue. Maybe you needed to simply reboot the router or something. DECA just doesn't wipe out home networks, its transparent to them. Or if he had hooked up a BBDECA as well as your hr44 to Ethernet that was the issue. Again, something just weird there, and I'm only curios because its just not normal, As long as your set up right, till you have issues no need to change to deca if you really don't want to. But when someone says it doesn't work and kills their home network, I just want to know why that happened for future reference, or better, what really was going on to cause any issues. You'd have to describe everything he did with deca though to really figure out where it went wrong.


I didn't see what equipment he put in. I was working in my office and noticed lost internet. Went and plugged PC directly into DSL modem and worked, so something had happened locally. He went to hr23 removed DECA and internet came back. Could have been ip conflict I guess, but since it came back with no DECA gear didn't dive into. So say I need a bsf. Where would I put it? At each of the other receivers and not at the 44?


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#22 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:11 PM

Affect them how? I have hr21, 22 and 24 and 44. I have Ethernet to all, no DECA or coax networking, whatever you want to call it. From what I see, even if using DECA no bsf needed for receivers I have, unless I'm reading something incorrectly. If the dvrs are all networked via Ethernet, isn't the coax networking disabled? I was lucky I guess a few years ago when whdvr was released. I called up said I already had home network and receivers connected and would like whdvr activated and pay the 3 bucks understanding I was in an unsupported configuration. They turned it on and no issues. All seems to be working fine now after geni install once he removed DECA equipment.

No, unlike the HR24 when you connect an ethernet cable, DECA gets disabled, an HR34/44 always has DECA "live" no way to disable it.   Since DECA signals are stronger then sat signals it can affect other receivers.  a DECA home adapter (that gets installed behind a receiver with out DECA built in) has a BSF built in


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#23 OFFLINE   j-man

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:16 PM

. Or if he had hooked up a BBDECA as well as your hr44 to Ethernet that was the issue. ;)

. I believe this is what he did. I think he still had the Ethernets plugged in.

I'll ride the at9 out until it fails. The siliconed the heck out of the wire connections when they installed. It has taken a beating in the past 7 years, it gets hammered with snow, and snow bombs from the tree melt. Knock on wood so far so good.

#24 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:30 PM

Again, the hr44 isn't like other receivers at all.  It has a bbdeca built in so to speak, so if you connect the Ethernet it will not shut off deca going out of it, so that it can be used to bridge all your deca network to the internet.  

 

DECA pushes a higher voltage through the coax, so technically it can cause your tuners to be overloaded. That equates to screwed up tuners and issues...  You would never have run into this until you got your genie, none of the receivers worked this way.  If you are using deca, then no, you wouldn't need a bsf, as all the units would either accept the deca signal, or have a deca module that blocks the deca signal from getting to the tuners in the first place. This is why bsf exist in the firs place.  To block DECA from hitting sd boxes that aren't ever connected into a MRV system.  The only reason you need one (and for it to be placed in a specific spot not next to the genie) is because your not connecting in a supported method and you have a genie.

 

And again, if it wasn't working with deca, then something wasn't hooked up right if it shut down your home network.  And if your receivers are the only thing that didn't work, he should have just rerun network setup, maybe reboot the router.  Its like plugging your stuff into a different port in a switch or router is all.

 

DECA is just easier because as you upgrade equipment over time, its all going to be deca built in...



#25 OFFLINE   j-man

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:31 PM

No, unlike the HR24 when you connect an ethernet cable, DECA gets disabled, an HR34/44 always has DECA "live" no way to disable it.   Since DECA signals are stronger then sat signals it can affect other receivers.  a DECA home adapter (that gets installed behind a receiver with out DECA built in) has a BSF built in

Ok - so does this mean I should put a BSF at each of the following receivers hr21, 22 and 24?



#26 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:32 PM

I didn't see what equipment he put in. I was working in my office and noticed lost internet. Went and plugged PC directly into DSL modem and worked, so something had happened locally. He went to hr23 removed DECA and internet came back. Could have been ip conflict I guess, but since it came back with no DECA gear didn't dive into. So say I need a bsf. Where would I put it? At each of the other receivers and not at the 44?

 

 

well, depends on how your system is wired, but if you are all home runs from each receiver to a central spliter far away, you can put a bsf at the spliter just on the line that goes to the genie.  You just have to make sure its facing the right direction, as it is directional...  You just dont want to put it on the genie itself next tot he genie.  

 

Or basically, you need the bsf to be between the genie and the rest of your system, as far away from your genie as possible.



#27 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:36 PM

. I believe this is what he did. I think he still had the Ethernets plugged in. I'll ride the at9 out until it fails. The siliconed the heck out of the wire connections when they installed. It has taken a beating in the past 7 years, it gets hammered with snow, and snow bombs from the tree melt. Knock on wood so far so good.

 

 

Well thats cool then...   Glad to hear yours is standing the test of time, hope it does for a long time.



#28 OFFLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:53 PM

Ok - so does this mean I should put a BSF at each of the following receivers hr21, 22 and 24?

 

That would be the most straight forward way to proceed.



#29 OFFLINE   j-man

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:53 PM

well, depends on how your system is wired, but if you are all home runs from each receiver to a central spliter far away, you can put a bsf at the spliter just on the line that goes to the genie.  You just have to make sure its facing the right direction, as it is directional...  You just dont want to put it on the genie itself next tot he genie.  

 

Or basically, you need the bsf to be between the genie and the rest of your system, as far away from your genie as possible.

See Attached

 

There is not direct Geni line to the splitte, the Geni is connected to Signal to IRD on the SWM Power brick - blue striped connecter, the other line on the power brick goes to the Multiswitch.  Then out of the multiswitch there is connection to the splitter below, the 3 outputs of the splitter go to the other HD-DVRS.  So put a BSF on the line that connects to the top of the splitter?  Or should I add a BSF behind each recevier at their location?

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#30 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:06 PM

Based on that picture and you saying the only thing on that leg of the swim16 is your genie, Id put it on the swim16 output that is connected to your genie at the swim 16 itself.  It will be very easy, you will disconnect the jumper from cable that goes from the power supply to the swim16 from the swim16, you'll connect the bsf to the swim16 then the jumper cable to the bsf. 



#31 OFFLINE   j-man

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:15 PM

Based on that picture and you saying the only thing on that leg of the swim16 is your genie, Id put it on the swim16 output that is connected to your genie at the swim 16 itself.  It will be very easy, you will disconnect the jumper from cable that goes from the power supply to the swim16 from the swim16, you'll connect the bsf to the swim16 then the jumper cable to the bsf. 

Thanks - so directionally I'm assuming I want the BSF to "filter" traffic flowing Northbound from the GENI towards/into the SWIM16 "output", so that the signals never make it into the SWIM16 and out the other SWIM connection down to the splitter.



#32 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:22 PM

Yep.  And when you get the bsf, youll see that it connects a specific way, and thats why i told you to put it at the exact spot...  Basically, you'll connect it to the swim as though the swim was a sd box itself..  ;)



#33 OFFLINE   j-man

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:41 PM

Yep.  And when you get the bsf, youll see that it connects a specific way, and thats why i told you to put it at the exact spot...  Basically, you'll connect it to the swim as though the swim was a sd box itself..  ;)

. Great, thanks for the help and tips. I assume it's ok to leave other receivers connected until I get the bsf or should I disconnect? The others aren't used much other than to record, now that I have extra geni capacity they probably won't even be used much for that. Guess it won't hurt to pull the coax for now, I can still watch recordings off them.


Found my first GENI bummer, can't watch tv and play pandora at same time. I see the posts where this is indeed the case for geni. That was a feature that kept the peace in the house. Hopefully they will fix that in an upcoming release.

Thanks again for all the pointers.

#34 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 12:02 AM

You can probably leave it for now especially since they are so far away from each other. But do not leave it like that perminant my.

#35 OFFLINE   bpratt

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:30 AM

OK, now I have a question. I am currently running hard wired Ethernet to my HR44-500 and 2 HR21-700s. The system has been running this way for about 4 months without a BSF. I stopped using MRV and turned it off on all DVRs because I record everything on the HR44 and only use the HR21s for backup until D* fixes the Freezing problem. With MRV turned off do I still need a BSF? All my DVRs are mounted in a closet and the longest coax I have is about 3 feet. The DVRs feed into a 4X4 HDMI matrix switch so I can connect any one of them to any TV in my house, so I really no longer have a need for MRV.

HR10-250   550G WD  6.4a
HR21-700   750G WD x087f AM21
HR21-700 2000G WD x087f AM21
HR44-500 2000G WD x08c2
DirecTV since 1997


#36 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 11:28 AM

Here's the thing:  You use whatever you want, but, Directv supports DECA, they will not support your home network. If you have issues with whole home and you call Directv, they should tell you to go pound sand, we don't have any control of your home network.  DECA gets the Directv traffic off your home network, which is good especially in certain setups where some people's home net gear is getting saturated by some traffic....there is almost no reason NOT to use DECA.



#37 OFFLINE   bpratt

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 12:31 PM

According to this diagram by Solid Signal, I don't see why I would need a band stop filter (BSF) for my setup or the setup j-man has. We don't have an HR20, H20, Tivo or SD receiver.

http://manuals.solid...p Filter LR.pdf

or this chart by Satpro:

http://www.satpro.tv...top-filter.aspx

Edited by bpratt, 13 December 2013 - 12:43 PM.

HR10-250   550G WD  6.4a
HR21-700   750G WD x087f AM21
HR21-700 2000G WD x087f AM21
HR44-500 2000G WD x08c2
DirecTV since 1997


#38 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:15 PM

Not sure why you say that since those diagrams show people using a bsf. Yes you need one. I'd use two with yours since they are so close and put then on the other DVRs. And decas have a bsf built into them. The point is deca signal is to hot for non deca built in receivers. They can cause damage over time to the tuners. Or just get decas and be done with it. I don't think the stuttering problem is there anymore and how do you know your home network wasn't also contributing to it? I doubt it but you never know.

#39 OFFLINE   j-man

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 08:11 PM

According to this diagram by Solid Signal, I don't see why I would need a band stop filter (BSF) for my setup or the setup j-man has. We don't have an HR20, H20, Tivo or SD receiver.

http://manuals.solid...p Filter LR.pdf

or this chart by Satpro:

http://www.satpro.tv...top-filter.aspx


I saw the same chart and PDF. I suspect the chart that shows no bsf required on those later dvrs is that they are assuming DECA is in use, and it believe I thought a saw a post that said the bsf was built into the DECA connector. Than again there was a lot of scotch last night so I could be imagining things. Regardless I just said the heck with it. The bsf is only a couple of bucks I'll put it in. If no issues I'll leave it, small price to pay I guess, and folks seem pretty adamant you should have one.

#40 OFFLINE   bpratt

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:12 PM

I've been running 4 months without a bsf with no problems. If my HR21-700s are the only things that could be hurt without a bsf in front of them I think I'll chance it. I'm only using them to back up the HR44-500 in case it has another unwatchable program because of freezing/pixilation problems. If I lose an HR21, maybe D* will send me an HR24 for a replacement.

HR10-250   550G WD  6.4a
HR21-700   750G WD x087f AM21
HR21-700 2000G WD x087f AM21
HR44-500 2000G WD x08c2
DirecTV since 1997





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