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Cable run design for home with 11 TV's


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#1 OFFLINE   turbotim

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:22 PM

My company has received a job to wire up a new home ( no drywall yet- thank goodness) for 11 tvs and i need to design the cable runs. My plan is to run all cable to a termination box in the utility room that is central in the home. Will this work as can all of these be feed from one antenna through spliters, amps etc..  Then I need to determine where the dish will mount so I can run the coax to that point.  Can dish provide coverage for 11 tv's and what about receivers. I think  they only cover 4 room for free?  Trying to get a quote for the client and being a WISP I have been offered by the regional distributor to begin to resell Dish Network as we do installs for our Internet service all the time.  Not sure if we want to get into it as the Internet side of the business is booming.  Anyways, was hoping that if I run Coax to each tv location and then home run it in one location that this would work fine. Thanks for any feedback.

 

  


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#2 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:01 PM

Run at least two coax to every spot the TV could be. And I'd run at least six cables outside to where a dish might go. Are you running Ethernet and phone as well?

#3 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 07:01 PM

DISH practically maxes out at around six distinct views or so. If the install really needs more than that, you're probably going to have to look to a different (or additional) provider.

If there aren't 11 pair of eyes, creative solutions might be had using a distribution system of some sort.

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#4 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 07:30 PM

Or go with directv since they have no limit in terms of number of tvs.



#5 OFFLINE   turbotim

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 09:51 PM

Run at least two coax to every spot the TV could be. And I'd run at least six cables outside to where a dish might go. Are you running Ethernet and phone as well?

 

Yes we are running Ethernet also but only phones to a few places.  What cable is everyone using for these? We do thousands of feet of shielded Cat5e cable runs all the time as well as large commercial projects. We just have not had tons of experience with coax but use to run lots in the past long before all these easy to install ends were available.  Thanks 


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#6 OFFLINE   turbotim

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 09:53 PM

DISH practically maxes out at around six distinct views or so. If the install really needs more than that, you're probably going to have to look to a different (or additional) provider.

If there aren't 11 pair of eyes, creative solutions might be had using a distribution system of some sort.

 

Yeah surprised Dish is not more open to homes with lots of TV's. Typical large estates are pretty common and you would think they would want the business. Will check into Direct also.  Thanks  


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#7 OFFLINE   PokerJoker

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 11:34 PM

Yeah, it will be a lot easier to run 11 TVs on a DirecTV system than on a Dish system.  In fact 11 TVs is close to impossible on Dish.  This is also why you virtually never see a sports bar on Dish.

 

Some may not agree with this, but there is a widely held perception that Dish's target market is more "Walmart" while DirecTV's is more "Macys".  The "large estate" customer is not on Dish's radar.



#8 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 09:14 AM

Yeah surprised Dish is not more open to homes with lots of TV's.

I'm guessing they know their sweet spot and covering houses over 4000 square feet isn't it. With the heavy dependence on MoCA, things get VERY complicated in a large estate scenario. MoCA has some serious distance limitations that aren't all that friendly with the tools commonly used to extend satellite TV cabling. Having multiple dishes is always going to be a hard sell even where it is allowed.

Typical large estates are pretty common and you would think they would want the business.

That larger estates are commonplace is silly talk. Much of the point of having one would be invalidated by the concept that they weren't all that exceptional.

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#9 OFFLINE   turbotim

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 01:13 PM

I'm guessing they know their sweet spot and covering houses over 4000 square feet isn't it. With the heavy dependence on MoCA, things get VERY complicated in a large estate scenario. MoCA has some serious distance limitations that aren't all that friendly with the tools commonly used to extend satellite TV cabling. Having multiple dishes is always going to be a hard sell even where it is allowed.
That larger estates are commonplace is silly talk. Much of the point of having one would be invalidated by the concept that they weren't all that exceptional.

 

Well it is very common to have 6-8 TV's in a house regardless if an estate or not. The point is to only cover 4 -6 rooms seems to be short sighted but that must be the model Dish wants. With cable it is not an issue but we service clients in a rural area and no cable will ever be in this area. I did not think about splitting the system and use 2 dishes as might be an option on this home since one part of the home is a bed and breakfast rental.  Thanks for the input guys. 


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#10 OFFLINE   turbotim

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 01:15 PM

Run at least two coax to every spot the TV could be. And I'd run at least six cables outside to where a dish might go. Are you running Ethernet and phone as well?

 

Why the need to run two cable to every location?   


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#11 OFFLINE   DoyleS

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 02:03 PM

I think you really need to define exactly what the customer wants at these 11 locations.  

Does he essentially want an independent receiver that only goes to that locations TV.

Can some TVs share a receiver?

Does he care about centrally located receivers? 

Is he open to other sources other than Dish available that might have more options?

What is his budget?

Clearly there are options to run HDMI over ethernet using Baluns but until you really define the exact need and get buyoff from the customer,  you cannot design the system. 


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#12 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 02:33 PM

I'd be inclined to run at least 1 if not 2 coax to every viewing location, plus 2 Cat6e home runs to ... what I would call a network or AV closet. The satellite run can go from outside to that location and be split/broken however you'd like from there.

 

Two coax to provide for both Sat/CATV and OTA antenna if necessary. Better to have the drop and not need it than need it and not have it. Or as we say on our campus, labor's the same for 1 or 4.


Edited by RasputinAXP, 02 January 2014 - 02:35 PM.

"Belligerent and numerous."

Sometimes I update the Dish Network FAQ

AT200, Hopper & 360 via HDMI to Onkyo 505 to basement 42" Westy, Hopper via Comp-over-Cat5 to living room 42" Vizio with a Roku 3, Joey to Toshiba 32" LCD with a Logitech Revue. You want fries with that? Pull up to the 2nd window.


#13 OFFLINE   turbotim

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 03:49 PM

I think you really need to define exactly what the customer wants at these 11 locations.  

Does he essentially want an independent receiver that only goes to that locations TV.

Can some TVs share a receiver?

Does he care about centrally located receivers? 

Is he open to other sources other than Dish available that might have more options?

What is his budget?

Clearly there are options to run HDMI over ethernet using Baluns but until you really define the exact need and get buyoff from the customer,  you cannot design the system. 

 

Yes each tv needs it's own receiver- independent viewing.  Some could share receiver as long as they have there own remote and channel choices as I have a VIP722k that I use in my home that does that.  Budget is not really an issue within reason. Centrally located is not an issue but more for me doing the cable runs.   Thanks  


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#14 OFFLINE   DoyleS

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 05:17 PM

I think you have to plan this as to what is going to be best for the  current home owner and any future owners.   Bottom line, this sounds like a high end home so you don't want to short change it.

That means pulling RG-6 coax from a central location to each remote location.   If there are two possibilities for a TV in a specific room then you pull cable to those locations also and terminate in wall fittings.

Wire is cheap in the long run so pulling two coaxes is the safest thing to do.  You never know when someone putting a nail in a wall is going to ruin a cable. 

Pulling a couple Cat5e or Cat6 to each location pretty much gives you some good obsolescence proofing.  You would also need to connect each receiver to the internet, especially if you have a large number of receivers so that Dish can make sure they are all at the same location.

As far as runs to the roof, Probably 4 coaxes to take care of both satellite and OTA signals but I think you might want to get on the phone with someone from Dish that can help you with configuration of a high receiver count installation. 

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Edited by DoyleS, 02 January 2014 - 06:35 PM.

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#15 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:13 PM

I'm guessing they know their sweet spot and covering houses over 4000 square feet isn't it. With the heavy dependence on MoCA, things get VERY complicated in a large estate scenario. MoCA has some serious distance limitations that aren't all that friendly with the tools commonly used to extend satellite TV cabling. Having multiple dishes is always going to be a hard sell even where it is allowed.
That larger estates are commonplace is silly talk. Much of the point of having one would be invalidated by the concept that they weren't all that exceptional.


Around 4000 isn't all that unusual in many areas. San Marino is a city built on larger homes for more than half the city. And in Utah almost all the homes are in the 3000 plus range for new ones because Of the basements. Which they don't count in the sq foot figuring for some reason.



#16 OFFLINE   mikeissurreal

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 07:15 PM

I would raise an eyebrow at the b&b rental part. This would/should be considered commercial and should be a separate account from the residential side. Make sure there is a good understanding of what those tvs are to be used for.

#17 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 07:40 PM

I missed the bed and breakfast part or maybe there's two threads about lots of tvs. ;). That's definitely a business and i would call solid signal about the residential experience for hotels setups.

#18 OFFLINE   turbotim

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 07:53 PM

I would raise an eyebrow at the b&b rental part. This would/should be considered commercial and should be a separate account from the residential side. Make sure there is a good understanding of what those tvs are to be used for.

 

 

It is mostly the clients home. They do rent out the other bedroom unit once in a while. Not really what I would call a hotel. Regardless, Thanks everyone for some great info and advise. Will help lots on running the cable as I may leave the choice of what service and that part to the client so I do not have to deal with it.  Thanks guys. 


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#19 OFFLINE   shadough

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 09:07 PM

So 11 TVs would be 6 receivers on DIsh:  With 5 of the receivers being dual tuners, and both running in dual mode. Each location would get 1 tuner, the limitation there would be that 5 of those TVs would get HD, the other 5 would get SD programming.  The 11th location could get its own HD reciever.

 

As to how to wire it, I would say runing the standard 3 coax's to the "Home distribution Box", use 2 DPP 44 powered multiswitches, daisy chained together, that would give you 16 total tuners.


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#20 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 09:22 PM

Who would build a new house this big with this many tvs and be ok with haveing half the tvs with a sd source only and not Whole Home Service either like a hopper or genie system?




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