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Does a Docsis 1.0 modem slow down other cable Internet users?


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#1 OFFLINE   grunes

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:26 AM

Does a DOCSIS 1.0 modem slow down other cable Internet users?

We own an old Motorola Surfboard SB4100 cable modem connected to a Comcast cable system.

Websites say it was DOCSIS 1.0 compatable. And some websites claim it can't be updated to DOCIS 2.0 or later protocals.

Comcast says that it can not take full advantage of the available Internet bandwidth we are paying for, and suggests we update. (They would be happy to rent us a faster modem :smoking:). But it is fast enough for us to see Youtube and Hulu videos, which are the most demanding applications we have, as we rarely use more than one Internet device at once.

But

1. Does the modem's presence on the local net substantially slow down our neighbors (who presumably connect to the same cable wires), like a tricycle on an Interstate highway, so that they are also not getting the service they are paying for?

E.g., does it force the local gateway to operate in a slow mode for everyone in that group?

Or do my packets take up more time bandwidth than than they "should", because they operate at a slower baud rate? (Do they?) (Since we aren't heavy users, we wouldn't feel guily about that - just curious.)

 

If I am slowing everyone else down much, how can I tell if we are the only ones doing so, so that replacing our modem would help everyone else out?

 

2. Sometimes there are glitches in the video streams we watch from Youtube and Hulu and such, as though there are dropped packets. Likewise, sometimes Yahoo and Google searches take about a minute. Would a modern modem make such issues less frequent? E.g., does Comcast assign us lower priority due to the modem age, or because it isn't leased?

3. Is the continued use of a DOCSIS 1.0 modem particularly unusual today?

 

4. Our leased cable Motorolla RNG200N TV DVR box has an ethernet port, which presumably means it is capable of acting as a cable modem. Would Comcast charge us to use that as such in place of our SB4100? AFAICT, the RNG200N were at least DOCSIS 2.0.

 

Thanks.


Edited by grunes, 04 January 2014 - 12:01 PM.


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#2 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 09:42 PM

You may be paying for faster speed than you can actually get with that modem, not sure...

 

And they are up to 3.0 now by the way, I wouldn't get a 2.0


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#3 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 12:44 AM

I would definitely recommend replacing that modem ASAP; Comcast has been notifying customers that still have them through various means because eventually they will shut off pre Docsis 2.0 modems if not upgraded. It is happening in a few markets slowly from what I have read over at DSLReports. http://www.dslreport...-1.1-Modem-ASAP
 
I would recommend purchasing a new ARRIS/MOTO SB6141 modem since it supports DOCSIS 3.0 and is capable of 8 downstream /4 upstream bonded channels for an overall consistent speed. There are other choices (see: http://mynewmodem.comcast.net/) however the 6141 is the one I use personally and it's highly regarded. If you also subscribe to Comcast Digital Voice then the only eMTA recommend to purchase is a ARRIS TM722G or TM822G since the others you will find are usually stolen/leased devices and Comcast will not activate; especially watch out for used ones (that goes for both eMTA and cable modem devices)
 
Lastly, I generally recommend staying away from any of the Gateway devices (with built in router/WiFi), I know that Comcast is leasing those out a lot now too so if you decided to lease one from them for $7-8 per month it might be a gateway device. Of course this can be avoided by simply purchasing your own and that way you can choose the router you want, not to mention the monthly fee you save. I personally hate the gateway devices but I'm sure there a few that like the all in one box setup.

 

And finally to answer your questions the best I can below in red. ;)
 

1. Does the modem's presence on the local net substantially slow down our neighbors (who presumably connect to the same cable wires), like a tricycle on an Interstate highway, so that they are also not getting the service they are paying for?
 

E.g., does it force the local gateway to operate in a slow mode for everyone in that group? I don't think so, I think it’s mainly just additional old (1996-2000?) legacy CMTS equipment at the headend for very few cable modems to continue supporting with maintenance, repairs, etc. which is added $$ to support. It’s similar to why they get rid of analog but not exactly.

Or do my packets take up more time bandwidth than than they "should", because they operate at a slower baud rate? (Do they?) (Since we aren't heavy users, we wouldn't feel guily about that - just curious.) Download (downstream) modulation is generally QAM256 nowadays; you’re most likely running at QPSK, 16QAM etc. which is older so I think the answer would be yes.
 
If I am slowing everyone else down much, how can I tell if we are the only ones doing so, so that replacing our modem would help everyone else out? 
Like I stated above, I do not think you affect anyone else at all, in fact if there is congestion on the node your likely not going to receive the full speed you pay for with D1.
 
2. Sometimes there are glitches in the video streams we watch from YouTube and Hulu and such, as though there are dropped packets. Likewise, sometimes Yahoo and Google searches take about a minute. Would a modern modem make such issues less frequent? E.g., does Comcast assign us lower priority due to the modem age, or because it isn't leased? 
I can't say 100% that is your issue but most likely yes. You can experience packet loss with a newer modem as well but usually that would only be if there is an issue (your coax drop, or somewhere further upstream toward the node). Having an owned modem though instead of leased has zero effect on that.

3. Is the continued use of a DOCSIS 1.0 modem particularly unusual today? I think so yes, as I think there a many more DOCSIS 2.0 and 3.0 then 1 nowadays. 
 
4. Our leased cable Motorolla RNG200N TV DVR box has an ethernet port, which presumably means it is capable of acting as a cable modem. Would Comcast charge us to use that as such in place of our SB4100? AFAICT, the RNG200N were at least DOCSIS 2.0. 
Ethernet ports are not currently used for anything (there not even active) on the DVRs so no you cannot do that.

 



#4 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 09:05 AM


I would recommend purchasing a new ARRIS/MOTO SB6141 modem since it supports DOCSIS 3.0 and is capable of 8 downstream /4 upstream bonded channels for an overall consistent speed. There are other choices (see: http://mynewmodem.comcast.net/) however the 6141 is the one I use personally and it's highly regarded. If you also subscribe to Comcast Digital Voice then the only eMTA recommend to purchase is a ARRIS TM722G or TM822G since the others you will find are usually stolen/leased devices and Comcast will not activate; especially watch out for used ones (that goes for both eMTA and cable modem devices)

 

Quick question, would you recommend going from an ArrisTM722 (I pay no lease fee nor do I have the telephony service) to SB6141? would I gain anything?


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#5 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 03:09 AM

Quick question, would you recommend going from an ArrisTM722 (I pay no lease fee nor do I have the telephony service) to SB6141? would I gain anything?

 

Depends. If your ISP supports more then 4 downstream bonded channels (such as 8) then you would have that capability with the SB6141. The Arris TM722G only supports a max of 4 DS bonded channels and 4 US bonded channels, where as the SB6141 supports 8 DS / 4 US bonded channels. That is basically the only difference though and would not be beneficial unless your ISP is offering more then 4. Even so, 8 DS usually only helps if your node is really congested during peak times to provide a consistent experience. You probably know this but you can login to your modem here http://192.168.100.1/ and see how many downstream and upstream channels your bonding currently.

 

In my case I upgraded from another ARRIS/Moto modem that only supported 4 DS simply for the 8 DS bonded channels capability since I confirmed prior from a technician that it was available and active on my node. I wasn't even experiencing slowdowns I just did it to have the 8 DS to prepare for possible congestion that could arise in the future had I not upgraded. :)



#6 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:40 PM

Thanks, upon further investigation, it turns out I have an Arris TM822G.  This is what i get from the modem

 

Touchstone-Status.pngClick for large view - Uploaded with Skitch

 

So according to this, I have 8 DS bonded channels and 2 US, is that correct?

 

Do you see anything "wrong" with the settings on that picture?


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#7 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:00 AM

So according to this, I have 8 DS bonded channels and 2 US, is that correct?

Yep that is correct, and its perfectly fine and normal to have fewer then 4 bonded US channels since most don't do 4 yet.

For example, of the two cable companies in my area, Comcast does 8 DS / 3 US bonded channels whereas Charter does 8 DS / 1 US.
 

Do you see anything "wrong" with the settings on that picture?

Nope everything looks good and within spec including your DS Signal-to-noise Ratio (SNR). :)


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#8 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:54 PM

SO then there is no benefit for me to get the 6141 since this modem is 4x8? or is the 6141 slightly better?

 

The reason fir my questions is so I can learn more about cable, (know a lot about satellite!) and then to see if I understand why if I am paying for 100/35 I am only getting around 30/30.  Have a service call for thursday.

 

Appreciate the help


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#9 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 12:16 AM

SO then there is no benefit for me to get the 6141 since this modem is 4x8? or is the 6141 slightly better?


Correct, there would be no benefit as your current modem (which is actually an eMTA since it can also do phone service if you wanted) is capable of 8x4 (DS/US) which is the same capabilities of the 6141. Now if you had the slightly older 722G then there could be some benefit gained as its only capable of 4x4.
 
Now if you ISP has 4 US bonded channels active but your only receiving the 2 (which I don't know if that's the case) then you could have a problem somewhere; looking over your signal levels again I find it a little odd that your US labels are Upstream 1 and then it jumps to Upstream 4 instead of saying Upstream 2. I have no way of knowing 100% what your ISP is running though. That may just be a label and not a indication that your not receiving a 2 & 3. I would recommend asking the technician what they are indeed running in your area (8x2, 8x3, 8x4 etc) as they have a meter that shows all the technical information.
 

The reason fir my questions is so I can learn more about cable, (know a lot about satellite!) and then to see if I understand why if I am paying for 100/35 I am only getting around 30/30.  Have a service call for thursday.
 
Appreciate the help

 

Yep, cable is definitely a different beast then satellite. You most definitely are extremely well versed on satellite!!  :righton:   ;)

 

HFC_Network_Diagram.png

271650.jpg

HFC-CATV.jpg

20145_1160419394.gif

 

Are the 30/30 speeds most all the time or only during the peak times (evening hours when everyone is home)? If its only during peak times, then you may just be experiencing congestion on your node, that's one of the reasons the ISPs add multiple bonded channels though is to alleviate the issue as you pull/receive bandwidth from each channel (max is 38.8 megabits per channel with NO one else using any though, not real world speeds).  It seems like your ISP has done the correct things though with 8 DS channels; the only other thing that could be done is to split the node by placing X amount of customers on another node or a new one that they would have to add and pull fiber to etc.; either option would cost the company $$$ and they usually only do this if enough people on that node start complaining and if it gets really bad.



#10 OFFLINE   grunes

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 09:33 PM

I would definitely recommend replacing that modem ASAP; Comcast has been notifying customers that still have them through various means because eventually they will shut off pre Docsis 2.0 modems if not upgraded.

 

With the analog/digital switch, Comcast didn't actually shut off analog service for years after they said they would. (We liked analog service better, for several reasons, and digital and the devices it required were an excuse to jack up the prices several times over). So if I'm not hurting other people, I would be inclined to wait on getting a new modem until I must. 

 

Lastly, I generally recommend staying away from any of the Gateway devices (with built in router/WiFi).

 

Why? My router (D-Link Dir-628, a dual G/N band "range extender wired/wireless router) is old too, and probably forces slow communication speeds too. I don't see why not combine the cable modem and wired/wireless router, unless I plan to get Internet from a non-cable source.

 

I was thinking of using an "access point", because the wireless communications from that router doesn't cover our whole house. Someone told me that access points have more range than routers. I only use wired Ethernet, but someone else here uses wired.


Edited by grunes, 10 January 2014 - 09:34 PM.


#11 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 10:13 PM

With the analog/digital switch, Comcast didn't actually shut off analog service for years after they said they would. (We liked analog service better, for several reasons, and digital and the devices it required were an excuse to jack up the prices several times over). So if I'm not hurting other people, I would be inclined to wait on getting a new modem until I must.

 
All I am saying is in the very near future your DOCSIS 1.0 modem will be turned off, it has happened to people in some markets already. OF course Comcast is a very large company and does things so differently in each market so YMMV on when it will be turned off. Do not be surprised when one day this year it will not connect to the internet...
 

Why? My router (D-Link Dir-628, a dual G/N band "range extender wired/wireless router) is old too, and probably forces slow communication speeds too. I don't see why not combine the cable modem and wired/wireless router, unless I plan to get Internet from a non-cable source.
 
I was thinking of using an "access point", because the wireless communications from that router doesn't cover our whole house. Someone told me that access points have more range than routers. I only use wired Ethernet, but someone else here uses wired.


Your D-Link router is fine, I was referring to the all in one devices which have the cable modem and wireless router built in together (such as ARRIS TG852/862G, Technicolor TC8305C, SMCD3GNV etc.) . Your D-Link is separate from the cable modem which is the way I prefer. Mainly because if you want to upgrade your router for example to a new 802.11 AC compatible one you would only have to upgrade one item in your network setup (if you already have a DOCSIS 3 modem that is).

 

Which you stated you don't plan to do, but if you were to use a different ISP (DSL, Fiber Optic, etc) it would not be compatible if it was a cable modem all in one Gateway. However a separate wireless router should be compatible with a different ISP.



#12 OFFLINE   grunes

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:35 PM

Within a few days of starting this topic, our modem stopped working with Comcast. 

 

Maybe Comcast saw this topic and decided to make sure Docsis 1.0 modems would stop working a little sooner.

 

We considered switching to another ISP, but in the end we bought a new Docsis 3.0 modem, a Motorola SB6141, the cheapest modem in stock at the local store.

 

The new modem takes much longer to connect to the Internet, so I frequently have to wait until it has come on-line, before powering the router, 

 

We still have erratic problems - for some reason the router gets messed up, and sometimes won't even respond to pings from within the house (even in wired mode). I just wasted a few hours updating the router firmware and re-doing its configuration. Maybe that will fix it...

 

 



#13 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:45 PM

That is a good modem, same model I use and it works excellent. The initial boot up is going to take a little longer as the ISP pushes a config file and possibly upgrades the firmware as well. Normally when you reset it from now on it generally only takes 1.5 to 2 minutes total to lock on to all bonded channels. Usually my Netgear router takes longer to boot then this modem. Keep in mind though this modem is locking onto multiple DS and probably US channels as well so you have to take that in to consideration for boot times. Your D1 modem was only locking onto 1 DS and 1 US channel.

 

If your having problems with the connection or the modem losing sync you may need a service call, if you want you can post a screenshot of your modems signal levels for us to take a look at. You should be able to access them directly in the browser by clicking this link http://192.168.100.1/cmSignal.htm



#14 OFFLINE   grunes

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:13 PM

>If your having problems with the connection or the modem losing sync you may need a service call.

 

I haven't had any problems the past couple days, since updating the router firmware, but thanks for the suggestion. 



#15 OFFLINE   Dude111

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:20 AM

Does a DOCSIS 1.0 modem slow down other cable Internet users?


No buddy why would it??

That just determines how fast YOU ARE ABLE TO GET .... If you get fast enough speeds from a 1.0 KEEP IT!! -- Nothing wrong with that!!

Edited by Dude111, 14 February 2014 - 09:21 AM.


#16 OFFLINE   grunes

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:01 PM

Incidentally, the Comcast tech insisted that we were slowing down other customers - he claimed that the local subnet has to run at the protocal speed of the slowest connected customer modem. Whatever.

 

>If you get fast enough speeds from a 1.0 KEEP IT!!

 

We couldn't, because Comcast stopped allowing it to work on their network. Our only other choice was to switch ISPs - which would have required a different modem anyway, because the only other local choices are Verizon (either DSL or FIOS), which uses different types of cables, and various wireless providers. The Wireless Internet providers would have cost orders of magnitudes more, when you consider that good quality HD video takes about 1 GB/hour.



#17 OFFLINE   Dude111

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 12:55 AM

Im sorry you had to go thru that buddy :(




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