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DISH Energizes Hopper Platform Giving Customers the Ability to Record Industry-Leading Eight Shows Simultaneously; Delivers Whole Hopper to Whole Home


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#26 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:17 PM

Considering that you could add 2 - 2TB external drives to the Hopper, drive space shouldn't ever be an issue!


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#27 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:08 PM

Most likely.

But it doesn't stop me from admiring and commenting on Dish's new tech. :)

Hey your coming back, and I'm thinking of leaving lol. But not to Dish. Unless they bring back NY sports.

The new Equipment offering seem like some big steps for dish. It's going to be hard seeing the dish apps on PS3 and my LG smart tv. :)


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#28 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:32 PM

Yeah... we're going to nitpick this stuff to death and always want more than they give us... but to the average Dish customer?  This stuff all sounds like really cool additions to what was already a pretty cool setup.

 

I don't know that the average Dish sub even needs the things we discuss as "limitations" to the tech...  we're just trying to push the envelope and get more and more.

 

One thing I do wonder...  the SuperJoey might not bode well for those wanting more connectivity between Hoppers in a 2-Hopper scenario... because it seems like the SuperJoey kind of does what you'd want your 2-Hopper scenario to do... so I can easily see Dish saying to anyone asking for more Hopper-stuff that they should get a SuperJoey instead.

 

It seems to me like IF they could do all this, they could easily implement better interactivity between two Hoppers... so it seems more of a conscious choice not to do that now.


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#29 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:33 PM

I dont get it, why not build a super hopper with all the tuners in the one box? It would seem more versatile if they had done that. I wonder if a joey can use a tuner from a super joey.



#30 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:45 PM

Assuming I haven't slipped a decimal point, this Next Generation Hopper/Super Joey technology will be 6,814.965 times better than the base line DirecTV HR34 Genie.

 

An additional calculation I did also indicates the new Hopper system is 154,352.8 times better than a mono 1985 GE 2 head VHS VCR.

 

 

:eek2:

 

Im sorry, but that's just hogwash in more ways than I can count.

 

I have seen plenty of people have issues with Dish stuff, and plenty like myself not have issues with the hr34, just as with any other piece of electronics.

 

What I want to know is why they didn't make a super Hopper instead of a supoer Joey.  That would have been much better IMHO and given them an edge over the newest directv boxes...  



#31 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:55 PM

I dont get it, why not build a super hopper with all the tuners in the one box? It would seem more versatile if they had done that. ...

Doubt if it's possible;

 

At least not an maintain a single wire connection feature to the Hopper if they did.

 

Unlike DIRECTV's SWiM and other CSS type switch designs, DISH network uses a more conventional frequency stacking approach on the coax in whole 500 MHz blocks.

 

So the current freq. stack for the Hopper's three tuners is already pushing the envelope at up to 3 GHz.

 

Tuner 1) 950-1450 MHz, Tuner 2) 1650-2150 MHz, and Tuner 3) 2500-3000 MHz

 

Don't think RG-6 can handle much anything higher.  


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#32 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:03 PM

That's why I don't see the point of a super Joey over just adding a Hopper. Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app

 

 

The only thing I can come up with its easier to do this than build the two more tuners into a hopper, and lets them add it to anyone system.  I assume that the tuners are able to be  managed and used for timers via the hopper its attached to.  I wonder what happens when you have two hoppers and a super joey.



#33 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:08 PM

For a "Super Hopper" a second cable would be enough for most customers (three satellite locations - sorry international customers). Two cables to a home head end location should not be a difficult install, with MoCA, wired or wireless networking carrying the signal to as many Joey/soft Joeys as the head end can feed.

Theoretically if one can get all six polarities to the "Super Hopper" there could be as many tuners in that box as space and cost allows.

DISH rumored such a system a few years ago but a product was not released.


As far as normal customers ... a Hopper and Super Joey sound good for those needing four tuners plus PTAT all in one storage device.
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#34 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:10 PM

If TIVO ROAMIOS can have 6 built in tuners, and Directv Genie can have 5, I don't see the complications. I think Dish keeps its equipment limited to force customers into adding more receivers, which adds more fees. Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app

#35 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:16 PM

I'm stunned at this LA Times article CES 2014: Dish pushes home copying envelope -- again because it doesn't lash out at Dish as the TV industry killer. Admittedly it's offered from the tech pages, but in the past the Times has shown a bias in favor of the broadcast networks. Instead, we get this comment:

 

The Super Joey probably won't make the networks feel any warmer and fuzzier about Dish, but at least it doesn't break any new legal ground. Instead, it just expands viewers' ability to record the TV shows that are beamed into their homes, which the Supreme Court deemed a fair use of copyrighted works in the landmark Sony Betamax case.

 

I'm not holding my breath to get this setup just yet because the news release does say:
 

 

Availability of SuperJoey, the Virtual Joey apps and the DISH Anywhere for Kindle Fire will be announced in the first quarter of 2014. DISH expects to release the Wireless Joey this spring.


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#36 OFFLINE   comizzou573

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:19 PM

I definitely like the PS3 app that dish is coming out with : )



#37 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:38 PM

I dont get it, why not build a super hopper with all the tuners in the one box? It would seem more versatile if they had done that. I wonder if a joey can use a tuner from a super joey.

Why didn't D* do the same thing?

Hopefully this will get D* to allow for two Genies sooner than later.

#38 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:16 PM

If TIVO ROAMIOS can have 6 built in tuners, and Directv Genie can have 5, I don't see the complications. I think Dish keeps its equipment limited to force customers into adding more receivers, which adds more fees. Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app

 

That actually makes no sense.  Dish controls their own pricing, so if they just wanted to charge more they would charge more... no need to create new hardware just to make you pay more... all Dish has to do is raise their rates.

 

As for "why" they have the limits they have...  A lot of it has to do with how existing technology for Dish is used.  They probably could come up with something better/different that is more flexible... but it would be immediately incompatible with other things... and so far they are at least trying to make the installs easier on themselves by having some common components.

 

If Dish wanted to throw backward compatibility out the window, then some things might be easier to implement.


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#39 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:26 PM

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#40 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:29 PM

If TIVO ROAMIOS can have 6 built in tuners, and Directv Genie can have 5, I don't see the complications. I think Dish keeps its equipment limited to force customers into adding more receivers, which adds more fees.


It is a physical limitation on the way DISH stacks satellite polarities on the feed to receivers.
On a single polarity feed one can tune any transponder on that polarity.
On a stacked feed one can tune two transponders (theoretically one could tune two or more transponders from the same polarity and additional transponders from the other polarity, but in practice DISH uses the stacked polarity for the second tuner).
The feed to the hopper is triple stacked ... three 500MHz bands with DISH tuning one transponder from each band. That limits DISH to three tuners per cable. With PTAT activated DISH uses one tuner for four feeds, which gives them the ability to record six channels at the same time.

DirecTV's single wire multiplex stacks in a different way ... instead of stacking the entire 500 mhz polarity they stack transponders and assign each to a receiver on that cable. A five tuner receiver uses five slots. The Tivo you mention is for cable where they don't have satellite polarities to stack.

It is easy to go for the conspiracy theory attack and say it is for more fees ... but it is just a limitation of their technology. Perhaps they should have gone for something more like SWiM (if the patent allowed) but they went with their own stacking scheme.
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#41 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:34 PM

Why didn't D* do the same thing?

Hopefully this will get D* to allow for two Genies sooner than later.

 

Actually, thats not at all the same question.  I think this is the first time anyone has launch a system where some of the tuners that are recorded on a dvr are actually embedded in a different unit somewhere else..  Its a reasonable question to wonder why they did this...



#42 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:35 PM

It is a physical limitation on the way DISH stacks satellite polarities on the feed to receivers.
On a single polarity feed one can tune any transponder on that polarity.
On a stacked feed one can tune two transponders (theoretically one could tune two or more transponders from the same polarity and additional transponders from the other polarity, but in practice DISH uses the stacked polarity for the second tuner).
The feed to the hopper is triple stacked ... three 500MHz bands with DISH tuning one transponder from each band. That limits DISH to three tuners per cable. With PTAT activated DISH uses one tuner for four feeds, which gives them the ability to record six channels at the same time.

DirecTV's single wire multiplex stacks in a different way ... instead of stacking the entire 500 mhz polarity they stack transponders and assign each to a receiver on that cable. A five tuner receiver uses five slots. The Tivo you mention is for cable where they don't have satellite polarities to stack.

It is easy to go for the conspiracy theory attack and say it is for more fees ... but it is just a limitation of their technology. Perhaps they should have gone for something more like SWiM (if the patent allowed) but they went with their own stacking scheme.

 

Ah, maybe this is the key then, they don't want to run to lines to a room which it sounds like they'd have to do if they put all the tuners in one unit, so they put them in a another room where they need to run a line anyway.  Now that makes some sense on why they did it that way to me...



#43 OFFLINE   david_jr

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:55 AM

It is easy to go for the conspiracy theory attack and say it is for more fees ... but it is just a limitation of their technology. Perhaps they should have gone for something more like SWiM (if the patent allowed) but they went with their own stacking scheme.

As you know James no matter how Dish did it there would be naysayers, detractors and those that felt it should have been done differently.

 

As to the Super Joey, I think Dish is coming out with a box to satisfy those that have complained that the Hopper has only 3 tuners and that the clients have none forcing many to go for a 2nd Hopper if 3 tuners is not enough for them.  The Super Joey adds 2 tuners to a Hopper without adding a 2nd hard drive into the mix which as we all know is the most common point of failure in a DVR system.  This setup could really be ideal for households with 3 or less HDTVs and there is only 1 hard drive there to fail.  It remains to be seen if the Super Joey can continue to function to at least watch live TV if the hard drive in the Hopper craps out.  Once you get to 4 or more HDTVs a 2nd Hopper is probably the better way to go.  I would be interested to see what the pricing is going to be on all of this new tech they are introducing.



#44 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:09 AM

Given how Dish does fees these days, I think that this year a Super Joey will be $7/month.  I would then expect in about a year or so for that to rise to maybe $10 which is similar to what they did with the 2nd Hopper installations.

 

Pure guesswork on my part!  :)


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#45 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:15 AM

I see Satellite Guys is giving out awards.

The Hopper beat the Genie by 75% of the vote from Satellite Guys. :sure:

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=YmHFHQ4MyVU

 

Trust me I like the hopper and joeys.

But that vote we all know where that was going. :righton:


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#46 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:17 AM

Ah, maybe this is the key then, they don't want to run to lines to a room which it sounds like they'd have to do if they put all the tuners in one unit, so they put them in a another room where they need to run a line anyway.  Now that makes some sense on why they did it that way to me...

Yes,;

 

As I explained earlier and James expanded upon much better, the more conventional frequency stacking approach used by the Dish Pro Plus (DPP) system means DISH is limited to supporting only three tuners per coax run.

 

Hopper_Joey1_Page_05.jpg

 

As you can see the coax spectrum for DISH traditionally used for satellite signals (950 MHz and above) is pretty much full nowadays.


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#47 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:45 AM

I still see the concept of a single NAS media server type system where any set can watch any program stored on any connected device.

 

Not for me though.  I'm not one of the millionaires on this board that can afford 6 or 8 TVs plus the associated Dish equipment and $200+/month service bills.


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#48 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:48 AM

I'm not interested. Too costly for me.


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#49 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:52 AM

I see Satellite Guys is giving out awards.

The Hopper beat the Genie by 75% of the vote from Satellite Guys. :sure:

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=YmHFHQ4MyVU

 

Trust me I like the hopper and joeys.

But that vote we all know where that was going. :righton:

 

To be fair, if a similar vote had been done here, I fully suspect that the Genie would have gotten the nod.


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#50 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:32 PM

To be fair, if a similar vote had been done here, I fully suspect that the Genie would have gotten the nod.

That's exactly my point.

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