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Guest Message by DevFuse

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DISH Energizes Hopper Platform Giving Customers the Ability to Record Industry-Leading Eight Shows Simultaneously; Delivers Whole Hopper to Whole Home


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#21 OFFLINE   domingos35

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:46 PM

Lots of good questions, I'm sure all will be answered over a relatively short period of time.

 

I think 1 Hopper + 1 Super Joey and some more regular/wireless Joeys to fill the needs will be the norm for many installs.  

 

For all the tech that  came out today, I soon won't need any of it with the possible exception of the PS3 integration, and even that only if it is a freebie.  My adult son has fallen in lus..., uh love and will soon move out with his new sweetie!!   :)

 

At that point I only have one TV and a monitor in the tech room that can also take HDMI.  I could use a PS3 for Dish there, but I can do that now w/Anywhere quite easily.  So most likely I'll be going down to one Hopper.

aren't u going back to Direct?



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#22 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:52 PM

That could be true... but it still doesn't change things...

 

A dual node needs 3 feeds...  A single node needs 2 feeds...

 

So it looks like you're still stuck with a scenario that only supports a dual node (2 Hopper) or a single node (1 Hopper) + 1 Super Joey without the use of a DPP44 or something similar.

 

IF the Super Joey does work without a node... then it might be possible to run a dual node + 1 Super Joey off of a DPP44... but will Dish support that even if it technically works?

 

Consider...  It is technically possible, I gather, to mix Hopper and ViP equipment... but Dish does not officially support it.

 

So... would Dish install a dual node w/ 2 Hoppers and a SuperJoey along with a DPP44 switch and support that for a customer?

 

And... IF so... how would that even work?  The SuperJoey (if it works like a Joey) probably can only link with one Hopper at a time... so unless they really make the interconnectivity more robust, I don't know how timers and the like would work if the SuperJoey could exist in a multi-Hopper setup.

 

My gut is telling me that Dish isn't going to allow more than 1 SuperJoey and no SuperJoey at all IF you have 2 Hoppers.  I have no little birdie feeding me information... I've just been thinking about it since the news hit today.

That's the only answer I can see as well so far;

 

1 Hopper + 1 Super Joey + other regular Joey clients, wireless or cabled, if desired. Used with a duo node.

 

Or 2 Hoppers + other regular Joey clients, wireless or cable, if desired. Again used with a duo node.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The Super Joey directly connected to the LNBF? :confused:

 

Can the MoCA signal even jump between a 1000.x LNBF's output ports and travel down through the satellite input side of the node to it's host output to reach a Hopper or vice-versa? 


Edited by HoTat2, 06 January 2014 - 06:56 PM.

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#23 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:02 PM

Assuming I haven't slipped a decimal point, this Next Generation Hopper/Super Joey technology will be 6,814.965 times better than the base line DirecTV HR34 Genie.

 

An additional calculation I did also indicates the new Hopper system is 154,352.8 times better than a mono 1985 GE 2 head VHS VCR.

 

 

:eek2:



#24 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:08 PM

aren't u going back to Direct?

 

Most likely.

 

But it doesn't stop me from admiring and commenting on Dish's new tech.  :)


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Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
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#25 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:14 PM

I'm looking forward to a spec sheet. A solo Hopper (3 tuners) consuming two outputs from a DPP LNB and a Super Joey consuming the third seems to make sense. A duo node supports two Hoppers (6 tuners) consumes three outputs from a DPP LNB leaving no room for Super Joey (using current technology). Plus with the Super Joey wired direct to the LNB the Moca would need to pass through the LNB or through wireless or another home network.

I'd say a new node would be the answer. For *MOST* customers three inputs to a node would provide both polarities of each satellite location and that could be switched for the DPP+ output (three polarities, one for each tuner) that feeds the Hopper, a DPP output to feed a Super Joey or (horror!) other receivers. A new node that could handle two Hoppers, two Joeys and pass Moca would be best (and might fit in a DPP44 sized case if a fourth satellite location is needed).

As far as the question of Hopper+Super Joey vs two hoppers the ease of use would be better with the Super Joey. All recordings in one place ... no switching to the "other" Hopper to look for programming. The trade off is hard disk space. I'd rather see a better integration of two Hoppers ... let one hopper handle PTAT and on demand recordings and the other hopper be used for bulk program storage. (It strikes me as strange that a house with two Hoppers loses half of both drives to the forced on demand downloads.)

Anyways ... good to see something new. One always wonders what is coming next ... especially when what came last year is fairly decent. Super Joey will do (as long as the price is good) and expanding to other clients is also a good thing.
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#26 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:17 PM

Considering that you could add 2 - 2TB external drives to the Hopper, drive space shouldn't ever be an issue!


Lloyd
Receiver : DirecTV Genie HR44-700, Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
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#27 ONLINE   damondlt

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:08 PM

Most likely.

But it doesn't stop me from admiring and commenting on Dish's new tech. :)

Hey your coming back, and I'm thinking of leaving lol. But not to Dish. Unless they bring back NY sports.

The new Equipment offering seem like some big steps for dish. It's going to be hard seeing the dish apps on PS3 and my LG smart tv. :)


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#28 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:32 PM

Yeah... we're going to nitpick this stuff to death and always want more than they give us... but to the average Dish customer?  This stuff all sounds like really cool additions to what was already a pretty cool setup.

 

I don't know that the average Dish sub even needs the things we discuss as "limitations" to the tech...  we're just trying to push the envelope and get more and more.

 

One thing I do wonder...  the SuperJoey might not bode well for those wanting more connectivity between Hoppers in a 2-Hopper scenario... because it seems like the SuperJoey kind of does what you'd want your 2-Hopper scenario to do... so I can easily see Dish saying to anyone asking for more Hopper-stuff that they should get a SuperJoey instead.

 

It seems to me like IF they could do all this, they could easily implement better interactivity between two Hoppers... so it seems more of a conscious choice not to do that now.


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#29 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:33 PM

I dont get it, why not build a super hopper with all the tuners in the one box? It would seem more versatile if they had done that. I wonder if a joey can use a tuner from a super joey.



#30 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:45 PM

Assuming I haven't slipped a decimal point, this Next Generation Hopper/Super Joey technology will be 6,814.965 times better than the base line DirecTV HR34 Genie.

 

An additional calculation I did also indicates the new Hopper system is 154,352.8 times better than a mono 1985 GE 2 head VHS VCR.

 

 

:eek2:

 

Im sorry, but that's just hogwash in more ways than I can count.

 

I have seen plenty of people have issues with Dish stuff, and plenty like myself not have issues with the hr34, just as with any other piece of electronics.

 

What I want to know is why they didn't make a super Hopper instead of a supoer Joey.  That would have been much better IMHO and given them an edge over the newest directv boxes...  



#31 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:55 PM

I dont get it, why not build a super hopper with all the tuners in the one box? It would seem more versatile if they had done that. ...

Doubt if it's possible;

 

At least not an maintain a single wire connection feature to the Hopper if they did.

 

Unlike DIRECTV's SWiM and other CSS type switch designs, DISH network uses a more conventional frequency stacking approach on the coax in whole 500 MHz blocks.

 

So the current freq. stack for the Hopper's three tuners is already pushing the envelope at up to 3 GHz.

 

Tuner 1) 950-1450 MHz, Tuner 2) 1650-2150 MHz, and Tuner 3) 2500-3000 MHz

 

Don't think RG-6 can handle much anything higher.  


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#32 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:03 PM

That's why I don't see the point of a super Joey over just adding a Hopper. Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app

 

 

The only thing I can come up with its easier to do this than build the two more tuners into a hopper, and lets them add it to anyone system.  I assume that the tuners are able to be  managed and used for timers via the hopper its attached to.  I wonder what happens when you have two hoppers and a super joey.



#33 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:08 PM

For a "Super Hopper" a second cable would be enough for most customers (three satellite locations - sorry international customers). Two cables to a home head end location should not be a difficult install, with MoCA, wired or wireless networking carrying the signal to as many Joey/soft Joeys as the head end can feed.

Theoretically if one can get all six polarities to the "Super Hopper" there could be as many tuners in that box as space and cost allows.

DISH rumored such a system a few years ago but a product was not released.


As far as normal customers ... a Hopper and Super Joey sound good for those needing four tuners plus PTAT all in one storage device.
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#34 ONLINE   damondlt

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:10 PM

If TIVO ROAMIOS can have 6 built in tuners, and Directv Genie can have 5, I don't see the complications. I think Dish keeps its equipment limited to force customers into adding more receivers, which adds more fees. Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app

#35 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:16 PM

I'm stunned at this LA Times article CES 2014: Dish pushes home copying envelope -- again because it doesn't lash out at Dish as the TV industry killer. Admittedly it's offered from the tech pages, but in the past the Times has shown a bias in favor of the broadcast networks. Instead, we get this comment:

 

The Super Joey probably won't make the networks feel any warmer and fuzzier about Dish, but at least it doesn't break any new legal ground. Instead, it just expands viewers' ability to record the TV shows that are beamed into their homes, which the Supreme Court deemed a fair use of copyrighted works in the landmark Sony Betamax case.

 

I'm not holding my breath to get this setup just yet because the news release does say:
 

 

Availability of SuperJoey, the Virtual Joey apps and the DISH Anywhere for Kindle Fire will be announced in the first quarter of 2014. DISH expects to release the Wireless Joey this spring.


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#36 OFFLINE   comizzou573

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:19 PM

I definitely like the PS3 app that dish is coming out with : )



#37 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:38 PM

I dont get it, why not build a super hopper with all the tuners in the one box? It would seem more versatile if they had done that. I wonder if a joey can use a tuner from a super joey.

Why didn't D* do the same thing?

Hopefully this will get D* to allow for two Genies sooner than later.

#38 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:16 PM

If TIVO ROAMIOS can have 6 built in tuners, and Directv Genie can have 5, I don't see the complications. I think Dish keeps its equipment limited to force customers into adding more receivers, which adds more fees. Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app

 

That actually makes no sense.  Dish controls their own pricing, so if they just wanted to charge more they would charge more... no need to create new hardware just to make you pay more... all Dish has to do is raise their rates.

 

As for "why" they have the limits they have...  A lot of it has to do with how existing technology for Dish is used.  They probably could come up with something better/different that is more flexible... but it would be immediately incompatible with other things... and so far they are at least trying to make the installs easier on themselves by having some common components.

 

If Dish wanted to throw backward compatibility out the window, then some things might be easier to implement.


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#39 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:26 PM

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#40 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:29 PM

If TIVO ROAMIOS can have 6 built in tuners, and Directv Genie can have 5, I don't see the complications. I think Dish keeps its equipment limited to force customers into adding more receivers, which adds more fees.


It is a physical limitation on the way DISH stacks satellite polarities on the feed to receivers.
On a single polarity feed one can tune any transponder on that polarity.
On a stacked feed one can tune two transponders (theoretically one could tune two or more transponders from the same polarity and additional transponders from the other polarity, but in practice DISH uses the stacked polarity for the second tuner).
The feed to the hopper is triple stacked ... three 500MHz bands with DISH tuning one transponder from each band. That limits DISH to three tuners per cable. With PTAT activated DISH uses one tuner for four feeds, which gives them the ability to record six channels at the same time.

DirecTV's single wire multiplex stacks in a different way ... instead of stacking the entire 500 mhz polarity they stack transponders and assign each to a receiver on that cable. A five tuner receiver uses five slots. The Tivo you mention is for cable where they don't have satellite polarities to stack.

It is easy to go for the conspiracy theory attack and say it is for more fees ... but it is just a limitation of their technology. Perhaps they should have gone for something more like SWiM (if the patent allowed) but they went with their own stacking scheme.
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