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DISH Energizes Hopper Platform Giving Customers the Ability to Record Industry-Leading Eight Shows Simultaneously; Delivers Whole Hopper to Whole Home


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#41 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:34 PM

Why didn't D* do the same thing?

Hopefully this will get D* to allow for two Genies sooner than later.

 

Actually, thats not at all the same question.  I think this is the first time anyone has launch a system where some of the tuners that are recorded on a dvr are actually embedded in a different unit somewhere else..  Its a reasonable question to wonder why they did this...



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#42 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:35 PM

It is a physical limitation on the way DISH stacks satellite polarities on the feed to receivers.
On a single polarity feed one can tune any transponder on that polarity.
On a stacked feed one can tune two transponders (theoretically one could tune two or more transponders from the same polarity and additional transponders from the other polarity, but in practice DISH uses the stacked polarity for the second tuner).
The feed to the hopper is triple stacked ... three 500MHz bands with DISH tuning one transponder from each band. That limits DISH to three tuners per cable. With PTAT activated DISH uses one tuner for four feeds, which gives them the ability to record six channels at the same time.

DirecTV's single wire multiplex stacks in a different way ... instead of stacking the entire 500 mhz polarity they stack transponders and assign each to a receiver on that cable. A five tuner receiver uses five slots. The Tivo you mention is for cable where they don't have satellite polarities to stack.

It is easy to go for the conspiracy theory attack and say it is for more fees ... but it is just a limitation of their technology. Perhaps they should have gone for something more like SWiM (if the patent allowed) but they went with their own stacking scheme.

 

Ah, maybe this is the key then, they don't want to run to lines to a room which it sounds like they'd have to do if they put all the tuners in one unit, so they put them in a another room where they need to run a line anyway.  Now that makes some sense on why they did it that way to me...



#43 OFFLINE   david_jr

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:55 AM

It is easy to go for the conspiracy theory attack and say it is for more fees ... but it is just a limitation of their technology. Perhaps they should have gone for something more like SWiM (if the patent allowed) but they went with their own stacking scheme.

As you know James no matter how Dish did it there would be naysayers, detractors and those that felt it should have been done differently.

 

As to the Super Joey, I think Dish is coming out with a box to satisfy those that have complained that the Hopper has only 3 tuners and that the clients have none forcing many to go for a 2nd Hopper if 3 tuners is not enough for them.  The Super Joey adds 2 tuners to a Hopper without adding a 2nd hard drive into the mix which as we all know is the most common point of failure in a DVR system.  This setup could really be ideal for households with 3 or less HDTVs and there is only 1 hard drive there to fail.  It remains to be seen if the Super Joey can continue to function to at least watch live TV if the hard drive in the Hopper craps out.  Once you get to 4 or more HDTVs a 2nd Hopper is probably the better way to go.  I would be interested to see what the pricing is going to be on all of this new tech they are introducing.



#44 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:09 AM

Given how Dish does fees these days, I think that this year a Super Joey will be $7/month.  I would then expect in about a year or so for that to rise to maybe $10 which is similar to what they did with the 2nd Hopper installations.

 

Pure guesswork on my part!  :)


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#45 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:15 AM

I see Satellite Guys is giving out awards.

The Hopper beat the Genie by 75% of the vote from Satellite Guys. :sure:

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=YmHFHQ4MyVU

 

Trust me I like the hopper and joeys.

But that vote we all know where that was going. :righton:


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#46 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:17 AM

Ah, maybe this is the key then, they don't want to run to lines to a room which it sounds like they'd have to do if they put all the tuners in one unit, so they put them in a another room where they need to run a line anyway.  Now that makes some sense on why they did it that way to me...

Yes,;

 

As I explained earlier and James expanded upon much better, the more conventional frequency stacking approach used by the Dish Pro Plus (DPP) system means DISH is limited to supporting only three tuners per coax run.

 

Hopper_Joey1_Page_05.jpg

 

As you can see the coax spectrum for DISH traditionally used for satellite signals (950 MHz and above) is pretty much full nowadays.


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#47 ONLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:45 AM

I still see the concept of a single NAS media server type system where any set can watch any program stored on any connected device.

 

Not for me though.  I'm not one of the millionaires on this board that can afford 6 or 8 TVs plus the associated Dish equipment and $200+/month service bills.


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#48 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:48 AM

I'm not interested. Too costly for me.


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#49 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:52 AM

I see Satellite Guys is giving out awards.

The Hopper beat the Genie by 75% of the vote from Satellite Guys. :sure:

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=YmHFHQ4MyVU

 

Trust me I like the hopper and joeys.

But that vote we all know where that was going. :righton:

 

To be fair, if a similar vote had been done here, I fully suspect that the Genie would have gotten the nod.


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#50 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:32 PM

To be fair, if a similar vote had been done here, I fully suspect that the Genie would have gotten the nod.

That's exactly my point.

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#51 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 03:49 PM

That's why I don't see the point of a super Joey over just adding a Hopper. Sent from my PantechP8010 using DBSTalk mobile app

Cost.  Hoppers cost more than Joeys every month now.  Of course this presumes the new Joey will cost the same as the old one.

 

Convenience.  It can be confusing to navigate from one Hopper to the other in the List screen.  But the UI goof is, when I watch something from Hopper 2 and it's over, hit 'Stop' and then "DVR", I'm returned to Hopper 1's list.  If I'm looking for a particular episode of something, having to constantly switch back to Hopper 2 is a pain.  (This is the way it works when you are linked to one Hopper but want to watch from the other - and switching what Hopper you're linked to isn't exactly intuitive).

 

One Hopper with an external drive pretty much gives me what I need, saves a little money and eliminates some of the more irrational parts of the UI.



#52 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:08 PM

The more I think about this... and how the current Hopper works...

 

A Hopper has 3 tuners...  a dual node supports 2 Hoppers (6 tuners) and it requires 3 inputs from the Dish/switch.

 

So... a Hopper and a SuperJoey should have the same requirements BUT with one less tuner than a 2-Hopper installation.

 

Of course they could be planning on different node technology... and problems can be solved with DPP44 or similar switches to provide more feeds... but I don't see now that I think of it how to do this in a way that gets you anything but less tuners than you can get now.

 

Maybe that's not a deal-breaker... depending on how you use things... but some might scream over a "lost" tuner if they moved from a 2-Hopper to a Hopper + SuperJoey setup.

Just a note to this;

 

And interesting Stewart should mention the DPP44 here.

 

But as I was discussing on another forum, with a DPP44 switch, a duo node, and a satellite-OTA diplexer to separate the 950-2150 MHz satellite signals from the 650-875 MHz MoCA ones. A two Hopper setup could "theoretically" be used with a Super Joey on the same network by connecting the SJ to the fourth available output on a DPP44 feeding the three lines to a duo node by means the diplexer, and running a line from the diplexer's OTA port carrying the MoCA signal to an available client port either on the duo node itself or by deactivating a regular Joey and connecting the SJ there through the OTA dipelxer port, or at some other convenient point on the client side of the network.

 

Now whether the MoCA network capacity can accommodate all this traffic or if DISH will even allow such a setup is not known at this time of course.


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#53 OFFLINE   shadough

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:00 PM

This may sound like a stupid question, but do we even know at this point that the 2 additional tuners on the SuperJoey are even satelite tuners?

 

quote: ""SuperJoey," a client that adds two network tuners to the Hopper's native three tuners."

 

2 network tuners, wtf is a network tuner?  A tuner that comes from the network or internet?  or OTA broadcast network tuners?  Just somethin thats goin thru my head...I know logically, only satelite tuners make sense but the wording leaves more info to be desired.

 

Also, this 'app' for the ps3, would that be exclusive to Hopper systems?  Or could us 'regular' customers also enjoy that?


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#54 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:26 AM

They are satellite tuners and from some reading here and there, it appears that a single TV install could be done with just a Super Joey for those not wanting/needing DVR capability, or at least that has been rumored to be something that could be done.

 

Essentially the Super Joey has a direct line from the LNBF that gets bridged to the MOCA network that the Hopper/Joey system works with.  The Hopper 'sees' those tuners as part of itself.  So the user sees 5 tuners and possibly wouldn't even know which one was on which box.  Of course that seems to say to me that there would be a lot of traffic on the MOCA network.


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#55 OFFLINE   david_jr

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:56 AM

I believe "network tuners" are satellite tuners available to the MOCA network.  Especially when considering it is qualified by "in addition to the Hopper's native three".

 

Also the Joey App is only for Hopper systems, that is why they are calling it a "virtual" Joey.



#56 OFFLINE   HumpMan

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:58 AM

Ok, this year may be the one that I switch to a Hopper.  Right now I'm on a ViP622 that is several years old, and I am hoping to see more HD on TV2.  I hope that long time customers get a decent upgrade deal.  Anyone know what it might cost to upgrade to a Hopper + 1 Joey?

 

But my real question is related to the Wireless Joey.  Sure looks like Morse code on the side of the WJ and the access point.  Sort of like how Western Digital used to do the cooling slots on some of their external hard drives.  Has anyone decoded the holes on the sides of the Wireless Joey to see if any interesting messages are there?

 

I tried a little but my ability to recognize Morse code is very limited.



#57 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:34 AM

I wonder about performance for the original Hopper.  As it is, the original Hopper seems to have difficulty properly recording the OTA tuner while playing back another program.  Can the system really handle 5 discreet tuners, or are they going to limit the SuperJoey to Hopper2 and above?



#58 OFFLINE   TBoneit

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:24 PM

What I found interesting was the 802.11ac for the Wireless. That gives plenty of wireless bandwidth for Video and putting it on the 5Ghz band too. That will for the near future at least cut down interference from other wireless networks.


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#59 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 07:11 PM

Yeah I like that too...  putting it on a band with less crowd for the moment AND have its own WiFi network for Dish device communication that doesn't take up bandwidth on your home network.  It's actually so good of an idea I can't believe it didn't come with the initial Hopper configuration since there had been rumors of the 922 originally intended to support a WiFi monitor before a lot of the 922 plans were apparently scrapped and went to the Hopper team for development.

 

It's just a really cool way around some problems that come up with installations and all the wires you normally would have to run.


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#60 OFFLINE   acostapimps

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:58 PM

Almost like a wireless video bridge for the mini wireless client C41W from directv, with it's own wireless network, but without tuners.


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