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Installation Questions


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#1 OFFLINE   Tugs2k

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:00 AM

Hello,                                                                                                               _

                                                                                       

Forgive me if there's a thread with this information already - I've had it up to    there with the Directv forums and sales people.

 

Here's my situation:

 

We currently have 2 HR24s and an R16. My parents just got HD (I've had it for a while now) and they really like it - who wouldn't, duh. Me and my dad watch a TON of hockey and he records A LOT. His R16 is 90-95% full of hockey almost all the time so we're looking at this Genie so we can record at every DVR. I currently have 4 wires coming from my dish into a Multi-switch and understand that I need to upgrade to a SWM system now. Fine and dandy! I've been researching the SWM system and what all is needed and am tired of getting different stories from different people at sales with Directv and in their forums. I've been reading things here about the Genie before I signed up and consider myself knowledgeable about an SWM system. Google is always around if I have questions as well. Quite frankly, DBSTalk makes Directv's forums....well I won't go there! Hopefully you know what I mean though, it seems like there are more correct answers here, than there. We have a 'power tower' on our roof that runs the power cords, phone lines, and satellite lines through the roof and into the house instead of going over the gutters (we have a power awning so we had to do the tower if we wanted the awning). I don't know how many LNBs are on the dish, but I do know there are 4 cables going from the dish to the multi-switch and 2 coax cables going from the switch to each DVR. From what I've been told, I don't need a new dish since I already have 4. The only reason I'd like a new dish is if there's something that Directv has to eliminate snow build up and frost (I live in Minnesota, it was -22 with a wind chill of -46 last night, -15 and WC of -28 right now, BURRR). I've read about after market heaters but don't know what Directv has available, if anything.

 

 

Here's what I'd like to accomplish:

 

I'd like to keep the 2 HR24s I currently have and add a Genie to maximize the space available for recordings. I know that the Genie system requires an SWM system. I'm a little confused about what size SWM (SWM8 or SWM16) I'll need. Here's a list of what I think I'll need and how 'difficult' install will be.

 

Genie - Just like hooking up any other box except that it only needs 1 coax instead of the usual 2 for DVRS. Easy.

 

SWM - I've hooked up a multi-switch and learned the hard way to write down where each cord goes before unplugging it. This is where I'm confused. As I understand it, the Genie only needs 1 coax cord and the HDDVRs require 2, if you want to record one thing and watch another, which is what I'd like to do. One person on the Directv forums said that I only need to run 1 cord from the SWM to an HR24 while I've read that each DVR requires 1 cord for each tuner (2 total). If I were to get an SWM8, I would need a 1x8 splitter which would allow me to run 1 to the Genie and 2 to each HR24. Is that correct? 

 

However, if I got an SWM16, I could eliminate the splitter and run 1 cord to the Genie and 2 to each HR24, is that correct as well? I'm hung up on why someone would need an SWM16 or SWM8.

 

DECA or CCK - I've seen diagrams and that just gets hooked up into your wired network and somewhere on the coax network.

 

Power Inserter - I've read that only SWM LNBs require this and since I have 4 cords, that means it is NOT an SWM LNB and therefore would not need it. If I end up needing it, it just needs to be on the coax network somewhere and there are diagrams.

 

Any help in telling me what I have wrong would be greatly appreciated.

 

I see that some here are actual installers and am wondering why the Genie requires an install. I know that Directv calls it 'difficult' but that's an arbitrary term. Is it possible to convince Directv that since I don't need a dish, they can dropship the hardware to me and I'll be fine on my own? I saw some of the pictures in the shame thread and that's what I'm trying to avoid. If I do it, I know what's done and how it's done. 

 

Thanks in advance,

Rob



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#2 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:43 AM

If you want two HR24s and a Genie, you'll need a SWiM-16 since the tuner count is 9.

You'll need a PI for it.

You will only need/use one coax to each receiver with SWiM.

The -16 has two outputs that only support 8 tuners, so the Genie will connect to one, and you'll need a splitter on the other for your HR24s.

A CCK will connect to the coax and bridge to your router/network for internet.

Since you have the four coax from the dish, mounting the SWiM-16 where your multiswitch is makes the most sense.

 

I'm not sure you can get a Genie dropped shipped, and since you need the SWiM-16, it makes more sense to have DirecTV do the upgrade.


A.K.A VOS

#3 OFFLINE   Tugs2k

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:36 AM

If you want two HR24s and a Genie, you'll need a SWiM-16 since the tuner count is 9.

You'll need a PI for it.

You will only need/use one coax to each receiver with SWiM.

The -16 has two outputs that only support 8 tuners, so the Genie will connect to one, and you'll need a splitter on the other for your HR24s.

A CCK will connect to the coax and bridge to your router/network for internet.

Since you have the four coax from the dish, mounting the SWiM-16 where your multiswitch is makes the most sense.

 

I'm not sure you can get a Genie dropped shipped, and since you need the SWiM-16, it makes more sense to have DirecTV do the upgrade.

 

 

PI because of the SWM16? Does it matter where the PI is connected? I.E. does the SWM16 need power or could I have the PI in a different room?

The CCK moves the Directv traffic, save On-Demand, off the Ethernet and onto coax and saves me from having to run Ethernet to each receiver?

I figured that replacing the multi-switch with the SWM would be the easiest thing.

 

Mind if I ask why it would make more sense to have them install it? The installers have done it more and could do it a lot quicker than me but I'd just rather do it myself, the inside stuff at least. There are a few reasons why I'd rather not have them come inside and do it. 1 being our house is a mess and probably embarassing - my dad's work takes up our living room, computer room, and kitchen. There also can be currency here which no one needs to know about. I would just feel a lot safer if I was allowed to do it. 

 

Thanks again



#4 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 04:38 AM

The PI can be located in a room with a receiver.

The HR24s & Genie use the coax networking so the CCK is used to add internet to the coax network.

DirecTV will supply the hardware for upgrade and the installer is to ensure the work is done to DirecTV's standard.

Since you don't now have a SWiM system, it is unlikely DirecTV will drop ship a Genie for a DIY install.

It just makes the most sense to have the tech check the dish alignment, rewire, and check out everything so you'll have the best experience with your new equipment.

If you wanted to buy the $500 meter, bought the hardware, and you took the time, you might be able to get the same job done, but is it really cost effective?

Wouldn't it make more sense to simply work with the tech while he/she is there?    


A.K.A VOS

#5 OFFLINE   randyk47

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 06:41 AM

I guess you could install your own SWM16 and then try to convince DirecTV to ship a Genie for self-install.  Years ago I installed my own SWM8 and eventually updated that myself to a SWM16 but had a problem convincing DirecTV that I had any kind of SWM so they sent a tech.  It really was a "plug-and-play" install once I showed the tech the SWM as everything else was already in place and working from previous upgrades like MRV.  This last tech took the time to supposedly enter the SWM16 and its serial number into the system using his little handheld so maybe it'll finally get into the system though I'm not anticipating any changes or upgrades in the near future to test whether or not it finally got registered.   As for techs in general I'll have to say I've been very pleased with the last three who have been to my place and it's actually been easier for me to let them deliver new and haul away old receivers.  While it may not be perfect my total system is a mix of self and tech installation.  The basic bones are my work so all the techs have had to do is make minor changes and no major work. 


Edited by randyk47, 07 January 2014 - 06:48 AM.

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#6 OFFLINE   dielray

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:09 AM

Looks like your hardware questions have mostly been answered.

 

If it comes to  a tech install, you may run into a few issues.

 

Hopefully your dish is accessible from a ladder, if not a tech is not likely to climb onto the roof in winter due to safety. He would need to get to the dish if the alignment is too low. If you run a system test on one of your HR24s and get the code 43/alignment error, he would definitely need to get to it.

 

The power tower is interesting. If the coax lines wrap around electrical, or get too close, the tech might not touch the existing system at all.

 

Hopefully all goes well, but I just wanted to raise awareness of the possibilities.


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#7 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:40 AM

To make sure you are clear on this:  With SWM, all of the HD DVRs only require one coax. Without SWM they require two.  When you convert to SWM your existing multiswitch will be replaced with an SWM16. From the SWM16 you will need one coax to the Genie, and one coax to a splitter (not multiswitch), which in turn will feed one coax to each of your HR24s.

 

The SWM16 does require power, as VOS noted the power inserter can go pretty much anyplace (at the SWM16, or remote at any of the receiver locations). But it has to be wired correctly, to the correct port on the SWM16.

 

As to your question about which SWM (8 or 16), an SWM system is designed to feed tuners (as opposed to receivers or DVRs). A DVR has 2 tuners, a non-DVR receiver has 1 tuner, a Genie has 5 tuners, and the Genie mini client has no tuners.  Regardless of how many tuners are involved, only one coax is needed for each physical box (receiver, DVR or Genie).  So with your system right now, if you switched to SWM, you would only need one coax to each HR24, and one coax to the R16. That totals six tuners, so you could use an SWM8.  But if you drop the R16 and get a Genie, then you would have 9 tuners, thus requiring an SWM16.



#8 OFFLINE   longrider

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:05 AM

One option not mentioned would be to obtain the Genie from Solid Signal.  You will pay the full upfront lease fee which could be an issue if DirecTV is offering free and you will have to buy the SWM16 which from DirecTV is definitely free other than the $49 tech visit. 


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#9 OFFLINE   WestDC

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:00 AM

As far as snow build up on the dish - You can purchase a Dish heater (google search) or solid signal - It also requires reaching the dish - Paying for the genie from a e-tailer  and getting a PI & Swm 16 + CCK from ebay would set you back $425 

 

D* installer $50 or $99 depends on the current offer - Go to your online D* account and Upgrade the R16 to genie and st back and relax.


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#10 OFFLINE   Tugs2k

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:31 PM

Part of the problem is 95% of Directv customers are tools. Do you guys like calling into them for anything?

 

My current dish will work, I could care less about getting a SWM set-up. If it's not broke, why fix it? Everything that the install requires is plug and play. If I wanted a new dish, then I'd have them do it. Another interesting thing about their 'standard' is there is no standard customers are given. How do I know that the installer follows the 'standard'?

 

I really like how Directv says it's 'difficult' but one of their techs I had the unfortunate pleasure of talking with didn't know a multi-switch system requires B-Band Converters. Come on, really?



#11 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:30 PM

My current dish will work, I could care less about getting a SWM set-up. If it's not broke, why fix it?

If you want a Genie, you need to.  


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#12 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:31 PM

 

 

I really like how Directv says it's 'difficult' but one of their techs I had the unfortunate pleasure of talking with didn't know a multi-switch system requires B-Band Converters. Come on, really?

Not always.  It "seems" that a DirecTV professional installation may benefit you 


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#13 OFFLINE   Tugs2k

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 12:47 AM

If you want a Genie, you need to.


I meant the new dish. I realize I need an SWM system, I was referring to using my current dish and putting in an SWM16.


Not always. It "seems" that a DirecTV professional installation may benefit you


Not always? Please explain when a multiswitch system doesn't need them. Here is some help:
https://forums-direc...ssions/11194843
2nd post

http://www.weaknees....rectv-parts.php
Look under Directv Receiver Accessories

I told the 'tech' I had a multiswitch system and we still went through everything, including her trying to sell me the 'protection plan'.

It 'seems' that, according your post, if you have an SWM set-up, you don't need them, but if you don't have an SWM set-up, then 'you need BBCs'.

#14 OFFLINE   Tugs2k

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 12:51 AM

One option not mentioned would be to obtain the Genie from Solid Signal. You will pay the full upfront lease fee which could be an issue if DirecTV is offering free and you will have to buy the SWM16 which from DirecTV is definitely free other than the $49 tech visit.


I'm 99.99999999% confident that I can do everything needed inside my house. I'm sure I could put a dish on my roof as well, but seeing as power lines are ~3 feet away, I'll let someone who has worker's comp do it. Additionally, I'm not going to buy the hardware to point my dish. Although, that might be a good investment seeing as how directv hassles us after our area gets nailed with storms.

#15 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 01:26 AM

I'm 99.99999999% confident that I can do everything needed inside my house. I'm sure I could put a dish on my roof as well, but seeing as power lines are ~3 feet away, I'll let someone who has worker's comp do it. Additionally, I'm not going to buy the hardware to point my dish. Although, that might be a good investment seeing as how directv hassles us after our area gets nailed with storms.

 

If they power lines are that close, make very sure the installer properly grounds the dish. If a storm drops those power lines onto it, you don't want the coax running into your house to be carrying 240 volts!


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#16 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:20 AM

Not always? Please explain when a multiswitch system doesn't need them.

There are exceptions to every "rule", and in this case it's the H & HR23s, which have a wideband tuner [chip] that doesn't use a BBC on the multiswitch system.


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#17 OFFLINE   dielray

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 06:24 AM

I'm 99.99999999% confident that I can do everything needed inside my house. I'm sure I could put a dish on my roof as well, but seeing as power lines are ~3 feet away, I'll let someone who has worker's comp do it. Additionally, I'm not going to buy the hardware to point my dish. Although, that might be a good investment seeing as how directv hassles us after our area gets nailed with storms.


The dish should be 10ft away from any overhead power. If you have a tech out and he follows safety policy that old dish would be left alone and a new one placed in a safer location.
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#18 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 06:19 PM

I meant the new dish. I realize I need an SWM system, I was referring to using my current dish and putting in an SWM16.



Not always? Please explain when a multiswitch system doesn't need them. Here is some help:
https://forums-direc...ssions/11194843
2nd post

http://www.weaknees....rectv-parts.php
Look under Directv Receiver Accessories
 

 

 

There are exceptions to every "rule", and in this case it's the H & HR23s, which have a wideband tuner [chip] that doesn't use a BBC on the multiswitch system.

Thanks for clarifying.  

 

This is why I say a professional installation may benefit you.


Here’s to the crazy ones.
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The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

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They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


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#19 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 06:21 PM

I meant the new dish. I realize I need an SWM system, I was referring to using my current dish and putting in an SWM16.



Not always? Please explain when a multiswitch system doesn't need them. Here is some help:
https://forums-direc...ssions/11194843
2nd post

 

interesting, you quoted my post over at DirecTV forums.....  


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#20 OFFLINE   bart

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 06:21 PM

Need some help! I have a direct tv H20/100 receiver what dish do I need to get all channels even HD ???




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