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Cosmos 2014


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#51 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 11:03 AM

:grin:   I guess the producers saw fit to take artistic license.

 

It wouldn't bother me if he didn't call out others for doing the same thing. I can see why they'd do it though.



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#52 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 11:40 AM

Tyson really is the best one for the job.

 

+1 

 

I was taken by Tyson's account of Sagan's mentoring.  In this case, Tyson is the best person for the job, but in so doing, he exposes his inability to equal Sagan's wit, sense of wonder, ease of expression, and other "stuff". It was the gentle teacher in Sagan that opened our eyes to the immensity around us and its impact on our very lives.


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#53 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 07:26 PM

Ouch, John C. Dvorak is definitely not a fan, though he's rarely a fan of anything...

 

"I found Cosmos to be uninformative pretentious dreck. Wasn't the director of this the guy responsible tfor the death of Star Trek? Good pick"


#54 ONLINE   Rich

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:28 AM

So true, Rich. Serves me right for falling for Fox's hype.

 

I've recorded it on a couple HRs but I might just wait until Netflix gets it.  Shouldn't be long and the PQ will be a lot better.

 

Rich



#55 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 02:40 PM

Right, but your question excluded the 1980s series...

 

Actually, I referred to the 1980 series by name right there in that same post. I'm not sure how whether I referenced it or not would have any bearing on how incorrect your answer was regarding my simple question as to whether those shows were the same ones to start the next evening on FOX. They still were not.

 

I loved the first ep (new series). Did anyone else notice the human face in the red storm on Jupiter?

 

I thought the animation lived up to the hype and the shot of the mars rover-type vehicles with Tyson's "spaceship" going by in the background was cleverly done. And I am still a fan of the cosmic calendar analogy, which still blows my mind.

 

And I am now an even bigger fan of Tyson. I had heard how he wanted to try to "channel" Sagan and make his narration as close to his as possible, which he exceeded brilliantly at, but the story of a 17-year-old Tyson visiting Sagan at Cornell (?) really tied that all together.

 

At first I thought, OK, get the biggest name in TV-exposed scientists you can find and ask him to host, but now I see how good at this he really is, which is pretty serendipidous. The perfect scientist also turns out to be the most-skilled host you could imagine. Go figure.

 

But as much as I liked this first ep, the 5 minutes of the original series that I watched Saturday in crappy SD had an even stronger emotional impact on me.


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#56 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 03:42 PM

Those last few minutes in which Tyson shared with us his visit with Sagan did the trick for me.  Up until that point, I could take this new show or leave it.  To me Tyson lacked Sagan's charisma and ease of expression. While I agree that the visuals were state-of-the-art-excellent, the presentation just didn't follow.  Of course, I know now that my ambivalence was caused by my expectations ... how could Tyson ever satisfy my Sagan addiction? Well, he couldn't. Instead he offered Sagan credentials that were good enough for me. Those last few minutes made Tyson relevant in my book.

 

Now I'm looking forward to next week's episode at ease in the knowledge that this sort of success was what Carl wanted for Neil, and that Neil isn't just another Fox-anointed opportunist trying to steal Carl's thunder.

 

p.s. That cosmic calendar is still my favorite.  I hope Tyson does the Drake equation.


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#57 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 07:23 PM

Somehow Tyson pulled that [I have an actual Sagan connection] off without sounding like he was in need of shoring up his credentials for us due to him feeling the pressure to validate them. If not he would have been like Fredo in The Godfather: "I'm smart, I can do things!" (maybe that was GFII)

 

And it is likely that with all of his TV experience as "guest scientific expert", hosting/narrating something this big for network television is probably very new for him, which means as good as he was, at least in my mind, he will probably only get better as the series goes along.

 

It is also very likely that he has no say in whatever creative license the visual effects department chooses to use, even if their incorrectness might annoy him.


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#58 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:50 AM

+1


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#59 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:44 AM

And from the story I've read elsewhere about the kid who was accidentally invited to a dinner party at Sagan's house, there is no doubt in my mind that this is exactly something Sagan would do.



#60 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 03:23 PM

Hmmm. Someone at USA Today (?) maybe somewhere else said he thought that while Tyson has a great on-screen persona, Sagan never had that.

 

While I agree that Sagan was more of a nerd and did not have the conventional telepresence expected, I strongly disagree that any of that was of any handicap to him hosting the show in 1980. If anything, it may have worked in his favor. Charisma comes in a lot of flavors, and isn't always about what you look like. I'm pretty sure many of you agree with me, as this thread has been mostly a well-deserved Sagan lovefest.


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#61 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:44 PM

Some detractors are missing a screw or two.  To say that Tyson makes a better on-screen persona than Sagan, proves it. I bet he/she won't put it to a vote.


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#62 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 08:13 AM

You're comparing apples and oranges.

 

Sagan was revolutionary for his time.  He didn't wear a white lab coat.  He spoke in English.  He had the *unheard of* ability to translate complex scientific topics into understandable discussions, often finding the perfect analogy for a given subject.  The last scientist who got this kind of press was Einstein.  But Sagan looked like a family member - not some sterile scientist.

 

Tyson is different.  We now have the Discovery Channel, History Channel, Bill Nye, Michio Kaku, the other guy on specials who has the Russian name that I can't remember but I see him all the time.  Before this we ONLY had "Nova" on PBS.  Tyson had Sagan's skill for "translating" theoretical physics into "English" and does it with a passion and energy that is quite appropriate for this day and age.  Likewise, Tyson comes across as a real human being..

 

Saying that Tyson is somehow inferior because "he's no Sagan" is like saying Louis Armstrong is somehow inferior because "he's no Beethoven".


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#63 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 08:43 AM

Alex Filipenko?


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#64 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 02:11 PM

I like Filipenko, Krauss and Kaku as much as the next guy, but Tyson just feels right for this.



#65 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 03:02 PM

I like Filipenko, and I like Tyson ... just not as much as Sagan.  Tyson is right for this series because of his personal ties to Sagan.  That's not to say he's Sagan's replacement ... he's not, not by a mile.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

 

Besides, from the looks of it, Tyson has a fan club of his own.


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#66 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:26 AM

Filipenko! That's the guy! Just a mental block on his name.

Even Tyson will speak self-deprecatingly of the shoes Sagan left behind. He's not trying to replace Sagan - it's just that, after over 30 years, it's time to update the story. I've been watching the original series and things like "we suspect other stars have planets" really stand out in an era where we've confirmed 1700 of them and new ones are confirmed every week.

#67 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 08:55 AM

Agree, updating is in order.

 

The qualities of the messengers are subjective. We can afford to differ on those. 

 

 

 

[Edited to add:] My apologies, apparently it's Filippenko, not Filipenko.


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#68 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:01 AM

Though, it is amazing on how much of the original Cosmos is still fairly true. It's probably more because he stuck to the basics and in fairly general terms but still impressive.



#69 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:22 AM

Though, it is amazing on how much of the original Cosmos is still fairly true. It's probably more because he stuck to the basics and in fairly general terms but still impressive.

 

Might be too early to tell.  Some of the classic scenes from the original series are being repeated (albeit updated) in the new one, but to what extent they emulate the original remains to be seen.  But, like dj says, " ...it's time to update the story." I'm hoping they'll explore newer areas in the weeks to come that will benchmark this series as a true continuation or stand-alone entity.


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#70 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:25 PM

Too bad it won't include the new discovery regarding the Big Bang.


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#71 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:39 PM

Too bad it won't include the new discovery regarding the Big Bang.

 

I'll bite ... what discovery is that?


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#72 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:59 PM

The combination of being great communicators along with the subject matter being something worth knowing is mostly what Sagan and Tyson have in common here. Any one of us may have a gut feeling preferring one or the other, and that's allowed.

 

What I find missing from the new series is the emotional timing, how the show was edited and produced. The old show was done under a limited budget, and that is actually a chief reason why we saw Sagan's "talking head" as much as we did. The new, big-budget version shows a lot more whiz-bang graphics, but somehow the older approach seemed more effective to me.

 

The communication qualities they have are what you would like to see in every teacher. Being professors is part of why they are good at it, IMHO.


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#73 OFFLINE   yosoyellobo

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:05 PM

I'll bite ... what discovery is that?

Gravity waves existence confirm.

http://www.cnn.com/2...tational-waves/

Edited by yosoyellobo, 18 March 2014 - 03:07 PM.

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#74 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:15 PM

Too bad it won't include the new discovery regarding the Big Bang.

 

Thanks,  yosoyellobo.

 

I'm thinking the same, dpeters11.


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#75 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:17 PM

The combination of being great communicators along with the subject matter being something worth knowing is mostly what Sagan and Tyson have in common here. Any one of us may have a gut feeling preferring one or the other, and that's allowed.

 

What I find missing from the new series is the emotional timing, how the show was edited and produced. The old show was done under a limited budget, and that is actually a chief reason why we saw Sagan's "talking head" as much as we did. The new, big-budget version shows a lot more whiz-bang graphics, but somehow the older approach seemed more effective to me.

 

The communication qualities they have are what you would like to see in every teacher. Being professors is part of why they are good at it, IMHO.

 

You are so right, TomCat. 


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