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Two accounts--one IP network


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#1 OFFLINE   JosephB

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:45 PM

Ok, got a weird situation that is brewing and wanted to get some input from the peanut gallery.

 

My mom and stepdad are about to move from their house where they have U-Verse now to a new home in an area that is definitely not U-Verse or cable TV serviceable, and I'm about 90% sure they can't even get DSL. Monthly bills are an issue, so we're trying to avoid setting them up with an LTE service or satellite based internet.

 

My brother lives exactly 2/3 of a mile away as the crow flies and he has DSL. He's also not serviceable by U-Verse or cable, and has DirecTV and is perfectly happy with it. My parents' preferred TV provider out of their two choices is DirecTV.

 

Now, the wrinkle:

 

I am leaning towards getting a set of these: http://www.ez-bridge.../ezbridgelt.htm to shoot a wifi signal from my brother's house to my mother's house so that they can share his DSL connection.

My question: My brother has a Genie and his own account. My mother would have her own account (we're not considering account stacking, so that is not an issue here) and would get her own Genie. Is there a problem with two Genies on the same IP network (they both would possibly utilize VOD, so they want them connected)? Is there a problem with two DirecTV receivers from different accounts existing on the same IP network? 

 

I'd like to avoid having to do things like setup two separate IP ranges and networks on each side of the link, the simpler the better (so I don't have to go down there and troubleshoot when something breaks) but if necessary, I could do that. Just curious if anyone else has had a situation like this.



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#2 OFFLINE   johnfist

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:00 PM

I recently had an issue similar to this, if you're not well versed in the wireless bridge tech and limitations, be sure to read up on it. Specifically what frequencies can be used in specific areas, and what those frequencies are limited to in terms of distance and permeability of trees and objects.   Also, look into ubiquiti hardware if you're going the wireless route. 

 

As for the DTV accounts sharing an IP address, I don't see why DTV would care about that at all.  If the internet isn't their end of the business, then they *should* only care that there are two paid accounts of theirs accessing content using the same non-affiliated internet gateway.

 

 

edit:  Oh, also if you're not familiar with it, check into EoC (Ethernet over Cable/Coax).  It can *sometimes* be cheaper than going wireless.  Depends on your wireless requirements.


Edited by johnfist, 24 January 2014 - 02:02 PM.


#3 OFFLINE   JosephB

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:18 PM

Yeah, the houses are 2/3 of a mile apart with a railroad, street, state highway, and land owned by three different people between them. Wireless will be the way to go. Those APs are rated for 3 miles using 802.11b/g at 2.4ghz, so I think we'll be good. The only issue I have to figure out is the height and mounting them high enough.

 

But, really, my main issue is trying to figure out how the DirecTV equipment will behave. I want to get it setup right from the get-go, so I have the right equipment, and I don't know if I'll need to segregate them so the Genies can't see each other. I'm sure the same IP won't be an issue either since some ISPs do carrier grade NAT and other reasons that IPs may be shared.



#4 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:27 PM

I think this is more complicated than you think.  assuming your brother's Genie is connected to the internet, connecting your mom's to your brother's internet will effectively "join" both networks together. 


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#5 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:27 PM

Just make sure you set up two separate networks for the systems so you don't have weird
Whole Home Service issues and such.

#6 OFFLINE   JosephB

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:35 PM

I think this is more complicated than you think.  assuming your brother's Genie is connected to the internet, connecting your mom's to your brother's internet will effectively "join" both networks together. 

 

Yes, I understand how it works on the network level. With the wireless link, it will be as if I have a 2/3 mile long ethernet cable between the router in my brother's basement and her house. Just curious as to how the DirecTV equipment will react

 

 

Just make sure you set up two separate networks for the systems so you don't have weird
Whole Home Service issues and such.

 

This is the crux of what I'm asking. I'm wondering if anyone has had two separate accounts on one network before like this. I know DirecTV limits you to one Genie, is it because they can't behave with another one on the network? And what happens if you have two HDDVRs (not Genies) from two accounts on the same network.



#7 OFFLINE   johnfist

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:40 PM

I don't personally have experience with the Genie boxes, but if I'm understanding this correctly, the Genie box uses Ethernet/WAN to communicate with the Genie minis?  I was under the assumption they communicated via coax. 

 

Regardless, if you had two units on the same network, if they don't have some means within the software to specify which other unit IP addresses it should be communicating with, I'd assume you'd need to create two separate networks that share a gateway.



#8 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:13 PM

This is the crux of what I'm asking. I'm wondering if anyone has had two separate accounts on one network before like this. I know DirecTV limits you to one Genie, is it because they can't behave with another one on the network? And what happens if you have two HDDVRs (not Genies) from two accounts on the same network.

I would imagine that more than a few of DIRECTV's apartment dwelling customers share Internet IP addresses.

The only real concern they have is that all of an account's receivers respond from a single Internet IP address (although this could be a tip-off to a VPN setup). That said, I seem to recall one instance where a neighbor connected to the same dish was able to get on the other neighbor's WHDS setup at some level (perhaps only viewing titles).

Edited by harsh, 24 January 2014 - 03:16 PM.

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#9 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:26 PM

Does your brother have ooma?

What you really want is to come out of the modem to a switch. Then out of the switch to two separate routers using different settings. (Ooma makes it real easy) Then neither system will ever see the other, not just in terms of direct but all devices connected. That's what I'd do.

#10 OFFLINE   JosephB

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:29 PM

Does your brother have ooma?

What you really want is to come out of the modem to a switch. Then out of the switch to two separate routers using different settings. (Ooma makes it real easy) Then neither system will ever see the other, not just in terms of direct but all devices connected. That's what I'd do.

 

The network side is not a problem. It's what I do for a living. I'm just curious how the DirecTV stuff is going to react.



#11 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:31 PM

 I'm just curious how the DirecTV stuff is going to react.

If you are able to keep tow separate networks, then the DirecTV gear would be just fine, as it was one network 


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#12 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:33 PM

I think others have some good reasons why having both Genies coming "from" the same IP address won't be an issue with Directv. However, that "EZ Bridge" will bridge the two networks, which would merge the whole home networks at both houses and cause problems, so you'll need to avoid that.

 

Assuming you aren't well versed in networking and don't know what VLANs are for and how to configure them (if your brother's router even supports them) the simplest way to do this would be to connect that EZ Bridge to a second router in your brother's house.

 

EDIT: I see you say you are well versed in networking so you don't need this information, but I'll leave it here in case someone in the future who doesn't know how to configure VLANs wants to set something similar up.

 

You'd connect the WAN port of the second router to one of the LAN ports on your brother's wireless router, and plug the EZ Bridge into the LAN port of the second router. The second router will acquire an IP address from the first router for its WAN port, so it can get to the internet, and the EZ Bridge will acquire its IP address from the second router. You may need to reconfigure the default IP range used by the second router if it is the same as the IP range used by the first router - since only 192.168.0.x or 192.168.1.x are used by default by most wireless routers on the market.

 

From there you can just follow whatever instructions the EZ Bridge has and it should work fine.  After you've got it working you may want to turn off wireless on that second router to avoid confusion at your brother's house as to which wireless to connect to. Once you've done that, if you need to get back into it, you'd need to connect a PC/laptop to one of its LAN ports to be able to access it.


Edited by slice1900, 24 January 2014 - 03:35 PM.

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#13 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:34 PM

I think others have some good reasons why having both Genies coming "from" the same IP address won't be an issue with Directv. However, that "EZ Bridge" will bridge the two networks, which would merge the whole home networks at both houses and cause problems, so you'll need to avoid that.

Assuming you aren't well versed in networking and don't know what VLANs are for and how to configure them (if your brother's router even supports them) the simplest way to do this would be to connect that EZ Bridge to a second router in your brother's house.

You'd connect the WAN port of the second router to one of the LAN ports on your brother's wireless router, and plug the EZ Bridge into the LAN port of the second router. The second router will acquire an IP address from the first router for its WAN port, so it can get to the internet, and the EZ Bridge will acquire its IP address from the second router. You may need to reconfigure the default IP range used by the second router if it is the same as the IP range used by the first router - since only 192.168.0.x or 192.168.1.x are used by default by most wireless routers on the market.

From there you can just follow whatever instructions the EZ Bridge has and it should work fine. After you've got it working you may want to turn off wireless on that second router to avoid confusion at your brother's house as to which wireless to connect to. After you do that, if you need to get back into it, you'd need to connect a PC/laptop to one of its LAN ports to be able to access it.


They won't as long as he runs two separate networks.

#14 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:36 PM

The network side is not a problem. It's what I do for a living. I'm just curious how the DirecTV stuff is going to react.


I can tell you for a fact as long as you keep the two houses separate networks you won't have any issues. But if you let them see each other you'll have issues. What DIRECTV sees via the same ip for the location won't make a difference.

#15 OFFLINE   JosephB

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:39 PM

Configuring the bridge isn't a problem. I do this for a living

Configuring the router isn't a problem. 

I don't expect any issues with the source IP to DirecTV's servers being the same. I know how the internet works.

 

I'm specifically wondering how the two Genies might react to both being on the same network, in terms of local behavior. 



#16 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:40 PM

Now I have a question...

 

I figure the mom will need a router at her house. so how three router are going to behave?


Here’s to the crazy ones.
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They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


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#17 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:41 PM

Configuring the bridge isn't a problem. I do this for a living

Configuring the router isn't a problem. 

I don't expect any issues with the source IP to DirecTV's servers being the same. I know how the internet works.

 

I'm specifically wondering how the two Genies might react to both being on the same network, in terms of local behavior. 

 

 

I suppose both houses would share playlists, and whatever the "weird issues" people with two Genies have reported (stealing each others clients or whatever) may manifest.


Edited by slice1900, 24 January 2014 - 03:50 PM.

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#18 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:42 PM

 

 

I'm specifically wondering how the two Genies might react to both being on the same network, in terms of local behavior. 

no issues as long as Genie minis are not involved, and even if they are, if you are able to a mange two networks, then you will be OK


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#19 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:48 PM

Now I have a question...

 

I figure the mom will need a router at her house. so how three router are going to behave?

 

It would behave the same as if the brother's house had only one, there aren't really any issues created by adding routers one behind another (assuming you manage the IP range used by each) aside from troubleshooting becoming more difficult the more "levels" of router you add. You'd need to add a couple dozens levels before performance (i.e. latency) became a concern.


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#20 OFFLINE   JosephB

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:51 PM

If I keep it down to one logical network/subnet, then the "router" at the other end will have DHCP turned off, NAT turned off, and basically just be a bridge. The EZ-link will serve as a link between the two houses and there will be a separate wireless network at each location that is powered by a wireless access point at each location. They'll be two separate wireless LANs, but they'll be in the same IP space and will function as if they were one.

 

I'm starting to lean towards separating them, probably with a router running DDWRT or otherwise so that I'm not double NATing either side.






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