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All American Direct Ceasing Operations (Feb 25th)

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#51 OFFLINE   ljr01

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 08:57 AM

So that is absolutely what DISH will do unless they don't do it. Got it.

Locals on 72 would be counterproductive as it would create a satellite arc that is more congested than the Western Arc. DISH's current problem would not be solved ... it would just be shifted to the other arc and DISH would still have no space for more HD. The solution "they" are planning (quoted because that "they" cannot be DISH) is not workable.

DISH is adding some local HD markets to Eastern Arc ... but in no way is there a mass move of all locals from Western Arc to Eastern Arc. So the last part of your post is correct ... DISH is not going to do it.

But way to go predicting conflicting actions would occur so regardless of what happens you'll be right! :rolleyes:

Upon encountering EA HD locals near Little Rock and Kansas City while traveling in an RV, I called Dish tech support and was told that "eventually" all locals east of a n/s line through central Texas would be EA only.

 

If that is incorrect it certainly wouldn't be the first time I was misled by a Dish CSR but she sounded like she knew what she was talking about.

 

Accurate info on the subject is of particular interest to me as I am about to spend significant $ on a WA only Winegard SK-1000.


Edited by ljr01, 10 February 2014 - 09:03 AM.


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#52 OFFLINE   Grandude

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 10:55 AM

Denver’s big 4 on 61.5 doesn’t make sense when all other Denver locals are on 129.

 

Comizzou573 says “put all locals on the 61.5 for western arc”. I have a tough time with that.  How hard is 61.5 to get on the West Coast?  If that’s where the locals are going, then it makes more sense to aim at the entire Eastern Arc vs. having a second single focus dish on top of your triple focus dish which is getting the balance of your channels.  And in that case, why have a Western Arc?

You are right Lou, those of us on the left coast would not be able to get locals if put on 61.5.  Comizzou must be smoking something.


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#53 OFFLINE   comizzou573

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 09:51 PM

You are right Lou, those of us on the left coast would not be able to get locals if put on 61.5.  Comizzou must be smoking something.

call the tech support at dish and ask them about the testing of the denver and chicago locals on the 61.5 they will tell you.


Edited by comizzou573, 10 February 2014 - 09:51 PM.


#54 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 10:20 PM

call the tech support at dish and ask them about the testing of the denver and chicago locals on the 61.5 they will tell you.


Chicago locals are not testing on 61.5. Chicago locals are available on 61.5 ... and have been for many years. Chicago is one of the several markets in HD on both arcs. Chicago has 17 local channels carried by DISH, 14 in HD.

Denver locals are not on 61.5 - not even testing. Denver has 16 local channels carried by DISH, 14 in HD.
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#55 OFFLINE   joetex

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 11:15 AM

With the abundance of prime time shows available online (see CBS website for one) I still do not understand the fear of the local operators to allow distants to be offered to those who would want them.  The growing online availability of prime time shows (and even newscasts) via streaming is probably more of a threat to the locals than an operation like AAD, which at the very least, could provide them with some of the $$$ that I was sending to AAD.  I guess I am missing something.



#56 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:03 PM

With the abundance of prime time shows available online (see CBS website for one) I still do not understand the fear of the local operators to allow distants to be offered to those who would want them. The growing online availability of prime time shows (and even newscasts) via streaming is probably more of a threat to the locals than an operation like AAD, which at the very least, could provide them with some of the $$$ that I was sending to AAD. I guess I am missing something.


I agree. One biggie is look at the exposure these distant channels will have from all cross the country.


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#57 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:34 PM

I agree. One biggie is look at the exposure these distant channels will have from all cross the country.


Exposure that they cannot contractually have. Each network signs an affiliation agreement with each of their local stations ceding territory to each station where that station has first run rights to the programming the network airs. If the station chooses not to air all of the programming the network can find another station for the content in question. Offering a national feed cuts in to those rights.

Yes, the networks offer streaming from their websites ... but it is done under their affiliation agreements. And while more that 50% of television viewers stream some content during each week, the primary source if television content remains linear television channels. It is the easiest way for the most people to get the content. (If streaming is so easy, why do people want distants?)

Distants are offered without the permission of the networks or the stations involved. Carriers offering distants simply must follow the law as to who they deliver distants to and pay a statutory fee. No negotiation or carriage disputes. But the laws are written in a way that supports the affiliation agreements. If you can get a local affiliate (or should be able to by predictive OTA reception or in market satellite carriage) the law doesn't give you distants.

I am surprised that AAD lasted as long as it did ... with DISH offering locals in every market and AAD's customer base being DISH customers. SD feeds competing against local HD doesn't help the battle to stay alive. But now the time has come to say goodbye. And hope that something is worked out for the people who need distants (RV/commercial vehicle).
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#58 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:01 PM

SD is fine because it is fun to see stations from dust ant places. So a station in SD is fine.




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#59 OFFLINE   cj9788

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 12:10 AM

This sucks. Just reactivated an old 512 to record the shows I normally record on the west coast feed this will add ten bucks to my bill. This will also be the first tine since 2003 I will be without a west coast feed of the four networks. An era has truly come to an end.......

#60 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:43 AM

Would it be cheaper to go with a hopper instead of adding another box?

#61 OFFLINE   joetex

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:55 AM

I will miss them too as I have had west coast feeds since 1999.  On the other hand, just purchased a Roku box on Friday that has fascinated me to say the least.  Oh well, Dish and AAD's loss is someone else's gain.



#62 OFFLINE   SeaBeagle

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 09:33 PM

I will miss them too as I have had west coast feeds since 1999. On the other hand, just purchased a Roku box on Friday that has fascinated me to say the least. Oh well, Dish and AAD's loss is someone else's gain.


Yes I have a ROKU as well. But, the TV stations are far from what DISH carries. Only certain times are TV stations broadcasting on ROKU.

If these TV stations broadcast like DISH carries them with out interruptions then that would be better than All American Direct.

Then there is Aereo which would be fine but are fussy on which TV market you can receive. So that company is totally useless.


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#63 OFFLINE   cj9788

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:17 PM

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Just got my refund check. I still had 3 more months of service prepaid so I wonder how the prorated amount is only five bucks and change. Oh well RIP distant network service you will be sorely missed....

#64 OFFLINE   Jon Ellis

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:20 PM

All American Direct died at 12:08 p.m. PT today while my TiVo was recording the KTVU Noon News.

 

I will miss being able to watch San Francisco news on a real TV (rather than a web stream).  They do a great job!



#65 OFFLINE   Lou

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:39 PM

I just think this is a sad day in America.  Today our Emails, Texts and Phone Calls are monitored, but watching a television signal from another part of OUR country, not so much acceptable.  Yes I have heard the argument on the why but to ban an American from accessing any part of America, to me is simply wrong. 



#66 OFFLINE   joetex

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:09 PM

Yes, definitely enjoyed the SF news.  KTVU, KNTV and KGO in particular provided very comprehensive news coverage as opposed to the newsmagazine shows we get in NY.  Getting used to the Roku box for out of town news although i will admit to enjoying the out of town commercials as well that I saw from the SF affiliates.  I have probably reached the point with Dish where once the Superstations are gone, I will look at other options.  Surely a sad day when some of us who had distants for over 13 years with the waivers of the local affiliates (and presumably their blessing) are no longer allowed to access them when the technology is certainly there for us to be able to view them.



#67 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:16 AM

I just think this is a sad day in America.  Today our Emails, Texts and Phone Calls are monitored, but watching a television signal from another part of OUR country, not so much acceptable.  Yes I have heard the argument on the why but to ban an American from accessing any part of America, to me is simply wrong.


Ban? There has been no recent change in law. DirecTV still offers distants to their qualified customers. DISH offers distants (generally nearby distants to fill in short markets) in many markets. There is no ban.

A company that offered distants service has ceased operating. The demand just isn't there to keep a standalone business operating.
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#68 OFFLINE   cj9788

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:11 PM

I

Edited by cj9788, 27 February 2014 - 12:12 PM.


#69 OFFLINE   Lou

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 10:47 PM

James yes, a company ceased operating because demand is low but why is demand low?  The answer: laws have changed, and continued to change, to ensure Americans are restricted from accessing other areas of our Nation.  You can justify it, but the bottom line is the bottom line.

 

I became a Dish customer in 1996 and Subbed to East and West Network feeds with zero restrictions.  That isn’t the case anymore.  While technically someone can still sub to Distants, today very few can qualify and that is by design.  Those restrictive laws are what I referred to when I say, “Banned”.  Again I understand what this is about and why they don’t want us to access other parts of our country but any law that restricts an America from accessing any part of our Nation, I believe is wrong.      

 

In the mean time Canada has taken the opposite approach, Canada offers every Canadian access to every region of their country as part of the most basic package. 



#70 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:22 AM

James yes, a company ceased operating because demand is low but why is demand low? The answer: laws have changed, and continued to change, to ensure Americans are restricted from accessing other areas of our Nation. You can justify it, but the bottom line is the bottom line.

I became a Dish customer in 1996 and Subbed to East and West Network feeds with zero restrictions. That isn’t the case anymore. While technically someone can still sub to Distants, today very few can qualify and that is by design. Those restrictive laws are what I referred to when I say, “Banned”. Again I understand what this is about and why they don’t want us to access other parts of our country but any law that restricts an America from accessing any part of our Nation, I believe is wrong.

In the mean time Canada has taken the opposite approach, Canada offers every Canadian access to every region of their country as part of the most basic package.


Can you tell us what laws changed? Because from where I am standing The laws did not change.

First dish was doing some stuff that was illegal In the first place in terms of how try are letting get distant and got caught. But far more important, dish and DIRECTV both have added thousands of local channels which then by law kept them from still offering distant channels in most situations to new accounts.

Bottom line is the sat companies have upgrade their offering to the point the old DNS feeds are no longer needed and the chances of getting exemptions have dwindled because of it.

Sat is the only way anyone has ever really been able to get distant feeds anyway, and that law was added to let them under certain circumstances so they could compete with cable before they had locals. I know of no law dedicated to shrinking what they where allowed to offer.

And remember something else, the law is you have to get waivers. It's the businesses refusing waivers that Denies more DNS than anything, not the laws. It's te complained trying to protect their money not laws banning them from doing things.

Believe me if the industry wanted to be able to offer all channels in all markets it would be so right now today. No question about it.

#71 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:14 AM

Can you tell us what laws changed? Because from where I am standing The laws did not change.


No recent changes ... although the laws are up for renewal at the end of this year. The basic qualifications in law for distants have not changed with the past few renewals (they actually improved on the last pass by eliminating out of market affiliates from blocking reception). The only negative change was removing permission for early delivery (eg: NY locals delivered in California). The biggest change affecting distants is the introduction of local television stations that perform the task of delivering the national network content as well as local programming. As more markets got their own affiliates the defined need for distants was met through local stations instead of an imported signal.

In the mean time Canada has taken the opposite approach, Canada offers every Canadian access to every region of their country as part of the most basic package.


The Canadian broadcast networks and stations (not the satellite carriers) have taken a different approach. Here in America the broadcast networks sell their content to affiliates ... the local affiliates pay for the exclusive right to rebroadcast that content on their stations within a defined market area. Providing a station from outside of the market area infringes on that local station's rights. When all the stations on a network are owned by a common owner it doesn't matter which station's feed one watches. Canadian networks ALLOW what Canadian satellite provides.

Here in America the broadcast networks do not allow importing a signal from another market. It would be a violation of the affiliation agreement. But in the narrow case where there is no local affiliate holding the rights a "distant" signal may be imported.

What people forget is that the distants law is a permissive law. When the law expires (unless extended) at the end of the year that permission will end. And the will of the content owners will not be overridden by the law.
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#72 OFFLINE   Lou

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:39 AM

Inkahauts, the laws have changed.  I never said they changed this week or even the past year.  As I said in 1996 accessing Distants had no restrictions. Then FOX Miami made an issue of Distants and brought the issue to head. A pivotal decision was made which started restricting access to Distant stations.  Wavers became part of the vocabulary.  Later simply living in White Zone wasn’t reason enough to access Distants.  It didn’t matter that you lived in a deep mountain valley in the Rockies where no signals could reach, you lived in DNA and that is the only DNA were allowed to get.  So yes laws have changed and this week the effects of the law took another toll.

 

James is providing the justification (for the benefit of our reading audience) I referred to. Note the language James used, which I originally referred to as “Banned”:

- “do not allow importing a signal from another market”

 

I get the fact that technology advanced to the point where companies gained the capability to deliver Distants.  In the 90’s Satellite penetration was low, so little attention was giving to the situation.  As the numbers grew, the current situation required a solution.  It did so by creating laws to restrict access.  So we had problem and found a solution.  That solution resulted in Americans being restricted from accessing other parts of America.  It is that bottom line that I object to.  There should be no law preventing American’s from accessing America. So let me pose it this way, is our audience comfortable with American laws, that tell Americans, what licensed American stations we can watch?



#73 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:55 AM

What information are you being banned from accessing that's so vital that it's not accessible online?


If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#74 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:35 PM

Inkahauts, the laws have changed. I never said they changed this week or even the past year. As I said in 1996 accessing Distants had no restrictions. Then FOX Miami made an issue of Distants and brought the issue to head. A pivotal decision was made which started restricting access to Distant stations. Wavers became part of the vocabulary. Later simply living in White Zone wasn’t reason enough to access Distants. It didn’t matter that you lived in a deep mountain valley in the Rockies where no signals could reach, you lived in DNA and that is the only DNA were allowed to get. So yes laws have changed and this week the effects of the law took another toll.

James is providing the justification (for the benefit of our reading audience) I referred to. Note the language James used, which I originally referred to as “Banned”:
- “do not allow importing a signal from another market”

I get the fact that technology advanced to the point where companies gained the capability to deliver Distants. In the 90’s Satellite penetration was low, so little attention was giving to the situation. As the numbers grew, the current situation required a solution. It did so by creating laws to restrict access. So we had problem and found a solution. That solution resulted in Americans being restricted from accessing other parts of America. It is that bottom line that I object to. There should be no law preventing American’s from accessing America. So let me pose it this way, is our audience comfortable with American laws, that tell Americans, what licensed American stations we can watch?

The laws you are talking about where not passed by congress just because. They where pushed though because the local stations felt their product was being hurt illegally after a technical leap changed what could be done. (Distant a could now be gotten via sat)

Those laws where about protecting businesses that had contracts to be sole providers in their area.

Blame the networks for your ban not the people who made the laws. They only made them to make it easier to enforce contracts.

And yes I'm fine with it because it's not banning me from anything as it not a ban. I am not in an area where a product is sold so I don't get it. The laws enforce me from getting it against contracts that have been made.

Other than news there really isn't any show that the majority of people in this country are "banned" from getting in your equation anyway. Almost everything is either delivered via network or in syndication on a channel somewhere in you market.

And you can get most news stations online. You are not banned from any actual information anywhere in this country. And companies decided they ,through contracts, would divi up what source you got them from in certain mediums.

I suppose you think mlb ei and nfl Sunday ticket et al should be free to all as well? Because it's the exact same thing.

I think the main thing is you think the government is the cause for all the rules about distants. It's not. Hollywood is. The rules just made their contracts easier to enforce.

#75 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 04:24 PM

The Canadian broadcast networks and stations (not the satellite carriers) have taken a different approach. Here in America the broadcast networks sell their content to affiliates ... the local affiliates pay for the exclusive right to rebroadcast that content on their stations within a defined market area. Providing a station from outside of the market area infringes on that local station's rights. When all the stations on a network are owned by a common owner it doesn't matter which station's feed one watches. Canadian networks ALLOW what Canadian satellite provides.

Exactly, comparing broadcast television in Canada to that of the USA is apples and oranges. In Canada outside of local news and regional NFL and NHL games, the networks have a uniform schedule 24/7. In the USA network programming is limited to primetime, late night, daytime and mornings for the big 3, while for Fox, CW and MyNet it's mostly limited to primetime. The rest of the day it's all syndication where various distributors and studios sell content to various station groups and individual stations. (i.e. Ellen, Dr. Oz, Dr. Phil, Judge Judy, Live with Kelly and Michael, Family Feud, Who Wants to be a Millionaire, Seinfeld, TMZ, Everybody Loves Raymond, Big Bang Theory, Modern Family, etc)

Also in Canada the networks own nearly all of their affiliates. In the USA we have multiple competing companies owning individual affiliates of multiple networks across the country. (i.e. in one market Sinclair may own an ABC affiliate while Nexstar owns the NBC affiliate, in another market it could be the opposite)




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