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All American Direct Ceasing Operations (Feb 25th)

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94 replies to this topic

#76 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 05:25 PM

As I said in 1996 accessing Distants had no restrictions. Then FOX Miami made an issue of Distants and brought the issue to head. A pivotal decision was made which started restricting access to Distant stations.


A court decision. The copyright owners asserted their rights and a court decided that the satellite companies were infringing on the rights of the stations and networks. In response to the court decision that would have prohibited any rebroadcast without an agreement between the station and the satellite company, laws were written that addressed the copyright concerns and permitted carriage, despite the objections of the stations and networks.

 

James is providing the justification (for the benefit of our reading audience) I referred to. Note the language James used, which I originally referred to as “Banned”:
- “do not allow importing a signal from another market”


You missed it ... "do not allow" is not the same as "prohibits". A ban would come from a prohibition. Permissive laws that allow carriage under certain laws are not a ban.
 

I get the fact that technology advanced to the point where companies gained the capability to deliver Distants.


Actually technology has advanced to the point where companies gained the capability to deliver every local station into each local market. DISH is now able to deliver local channels to all markets - wherever a satellite dish can be installed. Part of the cost is that the locals are delivered by spotbeam ... a limit of the technology that means I cannot watch Seattle locals in Indiana or Florida locals in Wyoming. In order to deliver a set of locals to the entire US the channels must be on ConUS transponders. The more space used on ConUS transponders for locals the less space that is available for other channels.
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#77 OFFLINE   dish556

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:47 AM

what a joke Sat TV has became why because when you get one your thinking Sky The F limits then you find out No East coast feed can be show because the F jerk that bet on game can cheat and that why they Cut showing the East coast feeds!

 

I want my East coast WWOR and others back D it Dish we are the people that should get to watch these feeds don't show any sports on the superstations and no sports news on those stations!

 

Superstations available in most areas via Dish Network

Most locations in the US qualify for receiving the 5 Superstations from Boston, Denver, Los Angeles and New York City.

Channels featured:
  • WSBK - Boston, MA
  • KWGN - Denver, CO
  • KTLA - Los Angeles, CA
  • WPIX - New York City, NY
  • WWOR - Secaucus, NJ (part of NYC Metro area)
Pricing and options:
  • $7/month for all 5 superstations

bring them back that why everyone sign up to get out of market news!


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#78 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 02:09 PM

Umm... what?

 

How would an east coast feed of a game allow someone to cheat?  Are they still showing west coast games on tape delay?  I thought that was done decades ago...  I'm not even sure what any part of that rant has to do with this topic actually.


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#79 OFFLINE   thomasingram2nd

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:37 PM

what a joke Sat TV has became why because when you get one your thinking Sky The F limits then you find out No East coast feed can be show because the F jerk that bet on game can cheat and that why they Cut showing the East coast feeds!

 

I want my East coast WWOR and others back D it Dish we are the people that should get to watch these feeds don't show any sports on the superstations and no sports news on those stations!

 

Superstations available in most areas via Dish Network

Most locations in the US qualify for receiving the 5 Superstations from Boston, Denver, Los Angeles and New York City.

Channels featured:
  • WSBK - Boston, MA
  • KWGN - Denver, CO
  • KTLA - Los Angeles, CA
  • WPIX - New York City, NY
  • WWOR - Secaucus, NJ (part of NYC Metro area)
Pricing and options:
  • $7/month for all 5 superstations

bring them back that why everyone sign up to get out of market news!

  I wish the super stations were in hi definition.  I do not think Dish will do what was planned since S.T.E.L.A. is the law spot beam locals..  It is true Dish can not provide super stations, since congress passed law in 1992.  The copy right act..  If your getting c.w. 39 WZZZ, then Dish can not sell you super station. These 5 including wgn hd will be grandfathered end of the year and will see at the end what happens.  In the mean time, Dish Is looking at the possible matter of a RV/Truck only waiver for only Dish receiver DVR 211z.  You can purchase that receiver at Camping World.  You must be a RV or truck owner.  The Dish unit must be in the Truck or RV for distant networks.  So far as of Today.  Dish has said, we have no plans yet.  Check back with us in another couple days.. Will see.  Do not get frustrated with this government.  Thanks and you have a blessed day..



#80 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:00 PM

It is true Dish can not provide super stations, since congress passed law in 1992.


Not true. DISH can legally provide superstations as defined and permitted in the relevant laws. If a local station complains about syndicated content DISH must black out the content they complain about - and it is easier to black out the entire channel than keep track of per market blackouts on the superstations - but DISH can provide the stations.

These 5 including wgn hd will be grandfathered end of the year and will see at the end what happens.


WGN is no longer a superstation. They ceased being a superstation years ago when they created a special feed just for satellite systems. The channel satellite subscribers receive nationwide is "WGN America". WTBS Atlanta went the same path splitting off their local TV station from the satellite fed "TBS" feed.

The WGN9 feed continues to serve the Chicago market as a local station.
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#81 OFFLINE   dish556

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 03:30 AM

Umm... what?

 

How would an east coast feed of a game allow someone to cheat?  Are they still showing west coast games on tape delay?  I thought that was done decades ago...  I'm not even sure what any part of that rant has to do with this topic actually.

 

I talk to a Dish Rep he said too manying people back when Echostar had East coast live feed 3 hours ahead of west coast were getting early score so they were betting on game. now as a viewer I can careless why you took them just bring them back. what I don't get is why the FCC let Time warner and comcast meger and not Dish and Directv? anyone Really this is a Real Question anyone???


Edited by dish556, 10 March 2014 - 03:32 AM.

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#82 OFFLINE   Slamminc11

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 05:42 AM

I talk to a Dish Rep he said too manying people back when Echostar had East coast live feed 3 hours ahead of west coast were getting early score so they were betting on game. now as a viewer I can careless why you took them just bring them back. what I don't get is why the FCC let Time warner and comcast meger and not Dish and Directv? anyone Really this is a Real Question anyone???

 

What year do you live in 1814? Unless the game scores on the east coast are being sent to the rest of the world by pony express or stagecoach would you be correct.


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#83 OFFLINE   joetex

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 01:26 PM

I too, do not understand the most recent rant about the game scores.  However, I do miss my West Coast distants.  Roku is a somewhat adequate substitute for the local news that I liked from the distant feeds although I do miss the SF local news affiliates!!  Also, it is hard to figure out what channels are actually showing live news programming on Roku and yes, I do miss the commercials as well.

 

I recall that a court order barred Dish from offering distant net feeds, hence the offering from All American Direct in 2006 I believe.  Maybe someday, if the local affiliate is willing to give permission in the form of a waiver,  subscribers to Dish who would like to watch a West Coast feed would be able to do so.  The number of posts here would seem to be indicative of some interest in having this service.


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#84 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 01:34 PM

I too, do not understand the most recent rant about the game scores.  However, I do miss my West Coast distants.  Roku is a somewhat adequate substitute for the local news that I liked from the distant feeds although I do miss the SF local news affiliates!!  Also, it is hard to figure out what channels are actually showing live news programming on Roku and yes, I do miss the commercials as well.

 

I recall that a court order barred Dish from offering distant net feeds, hence the offering from All American Direct in 2006 I believe.  Maybe someday, if the local affiliate is willing to give permission in the form of a waiver,  subscribers to Dish who would like to watch a West Coast feed would be able to do so.  The number of posts here would seem to be indicative of some interest in having this service.

 

It'll take alot more than a little interest.  Local affiliates are not gonna give a waiver to anyone in their area to watch duplicate programming from another DMA.  Even if one was to say to watch news elsewhere, the local affiliate would just say its not local news to you.  I don't see this one happening in any other way than Significantly Viewed anytime in the near future.


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#85 OFFLINE   joetex

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 01:58 PM

Well I did have waivers from all four of the majors when I had All American Direct.  Not to say that other affiliates in other areas of the country may not be as willing but it would seem to be worth asking about rather than just assume that no affiliate would ever give a waiver out.  If they deny the waiver, (which did happen to me for the first number of years from one of the local affiliates), then I would understand why we can't have them.  But if the locals are willing to grant them, which was my experience, then why not offer distants?  Particularly if those affiliates who would ostensibly suffer a loss of viewers are willing to allow it.



#86 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:08 PM

Well I did have waivers from all four of the majors when I had All American Direct.  Not to say that other affiliates in other areas of the country may not be as willing but it would seem to be worth asking about rather than just assume that no affiliate would ever give a waiver out.  If they deny the waiver, (which did happen to me for the first number of years from one of the local affiliates), then I would understand why we can't have them.  But if the locals are willing to grant them, which was my experience, then why not offer distants?  Particularly if those affiliates who would ostensibly suffer a loss of viewers are willing to allow it.

 

One reason why is you are not able to request a waiver if there is already an affiliate of the big four in your DMA then you are not able/eligible to request for a waiver.  It has to be for a network that is not offered in your DMA at least not offered by your carrier.


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#87 OFFLINE   joetex

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:18 PM

Yes, well that is a part of the law or regulation that I will never understand.  We have always had an affiliate of the big four in our area (Long Island) and they were all quite willing to give me waivers via All American Direct to allow me to watch the west coast feeds, which I used mostly for their local news.  I can't quite figure out why if my local affiliate is willing to give me something, I am not eligible to ask.  Just doesn't make sense.



#88 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:32 PM

Yes, well that is a part of the law or regulation that I will never understand.  We have always had an affiliate of the big four in our area (Long Island) and they were all quite willing to give me waivers via All American Direct to allow me to watch the west coast feeds, which I used mostly for their local news.  I can't quite figure out why if my local affiliate is willing to give me something, I am not eligible to ask.  Just doesn't make sense.

 

The NAB will tell you it has to do with Localism.  The idea is to have the big 4 in every DMA to ensure you are getting local to you news, weather and sports content.  With the local affiliate getting add revenue to get commercials to people in the defined DMA, they are not overly willing (now days anyways) to let you get that from another affiliate.  Significantly Viewed is an option that does not matter that its duplicate programming and its a close by affiliate too if they are on the list as Significantly Viewed.

 

There are problems with just letting people pick another market for locals.  One would be that it would do away with the need for specific out of market sports packages.  Everyone would just call and change their locals to the market wanted for that days game.  Even if you could buy your markets locals and an additional market for a set additional price, I think the local affiliates would see a decline in add revenue as the adds would not be reaching the eyes originally intended too.  Distants were never designed to just give you additional programming from somewhere else in the country.  That definitely is not the intent now for sure.

 

Alot of people with DirecTV (me included) had the distants before their market offered LIL and were just allowed to keep them once their market launched their DMA's locals.  Dish had their distants taken away originally because they were giving it to people who did not meet the criteria to get them in the first place.  I dont think there is a satellite company out there that can afford to make all local channels available nationally to anyone who wants to pay for them. 


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#89 OFFLINE   joetex

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 03:03 PM

Thanks for the explanation, needless to say after having distants since 1999, my viewing habits were significantly impacted.  The sports meant zero to me and I agree that it would be unwise to allow people to call and change their markets on a given game day.  However, a west coast option at an additional charge, subject to waivers from the locals would be a nice thing to be able to offer, if for nothing else than the novelty alone.  I think that the people that operate Roku understand this, hence the offerings of local news via Livestream, Nowhere TV, etc.  


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#90 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 03:08 PM

Thanks for the explanation, needless to say after having distants since 1999, my viewing habits were significantly impacted.  The sports meant zero to me and I agree that it would be unwise to allow people to call and change their markets on a given game day.  However, a west coast option at an additional charge, subject to waivers from the locals would be a nice thing to be able to offer, if for nothing else than the novelty alone.  I think that the people that operate Roku understand this, hence the offerings of local news via Livestream, Nowhere TV, etc.  

 

Agreed, I love having west coast locals too.  It allows me to schedule later recordings if needed.  With a Genie that does not happen often but occasionally it does.


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#91 OFFLINE   thomasingram2nd

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 07:18 PM

Not true. DISH can legally provide superstations as defined and permitted in the relevant laws. If a local station complains about syndicated content DISH must black out the content they complain about - and it is easier to black out the entire channel than keep track of per market blackouts on the superstations - but DISH can provide the stations.


WGN is no longer a superstation. They ceased being a superstation years ago when they created a special feed just for satellite systems. The channel satellite subscribers receive nationwide is "WGN America". WTBS Atlanta went the same path splitting off their local TV station from the satellite fed "TBS" feed.

The WGN9 feed continues to serve the Chicago market as a local station.

Thank James.  I had a feeling I left a bunch out on the super station.   :righton:



#92 OFFLINE   dish556

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:44 AM

do people with C band sat's have too live by the same rules that we do? or are they free too rip off all paid channels>?



#93 OFFLINE   Jim5506

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 03:07 PM

Nearly all, if not all, commercial signals on C band are encrypted.


Edited by Jim5506, 11 March 2014 - 03:08 PM.

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#94 OFFLINE   dish556

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:48 PM

Thanks for the explanation, needless to say after having distants since 1999, my viewing habits were significantly impacted.  The sports meant zero to me and I agree that it would be unwise to allow people to call and change their markets on a given game day.  However, a west coast option at an additional charge, subject to waivers from the locals would be a nice thing to be able to offer, if for nothing else than the novelty alone.  I think that the people that operate Roku understand this, hence the offerings of local news via Livestream, Nowhere TV, etc.  

 

 

I just proved that KU and C bands are unencrypted and that people can get east coast feed on the west coast and getting free paid channel!



#95 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 01:42 AM

I just proved that KU and C bands are unencrypted and that people can get east coast feed on the west coast and getting free paid channel!


SOME KU and C band signals are unencrypted. It would take the appropriate FTA satellite system to receive the signals.
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