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Jewish Life TV moving off SD receivers

JLTV

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#1 OFFLINE   Tom Servo

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 01:37 AM

I stumbled onto JLTV this evening and they were running a crawl stating they were moving off the SD receivers and would require an HD receiver to continue seeing the channel after 26-Feb.  I'm assuming this is still going to be in SD, but in the MPEG-4 stream.  JLTV does seem to be in 16x9 but no idea if it's available in HD or not, not that it matters since it appears to be a public interest type channel and is apparently very niche.

 

I'm not Jewish but sometimes their JN1 News shows are interesting, having an Israeli-based perspective on the world's events.  Hopefully the picture quality will improve to "Real Video circa 1999" to something watchable with the switch.

 

JLTV is grouped with all the religious channels but seems to not be specifically religious in nature.

 

Anywho, just thought someone might want to know.



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#2 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 03:35 AM

Nah;

 

JLTV is in standard 4:3 format SD, though like many other SD channels nowadays some of their programming like JN1 use 16:9 letter-box (or thus a "window-box" on an HDTV).

 

I guess this will be a step-up for them as far as increased coverage by getting away from being stranded out on the 119 satellite as they currently are.

 

Though like other SD channels which were moved up to Ka Band/MPEG-4, they won't be visible to Ku/MPEG-2 only crowd which still account for about half of all DIRECTV subs.    


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#3 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:04 AM

Since Directv wants to eventually migrate off MPEG2/SD entirely at some point, it makes sense that they'd move the lesser watched niche channels at first, then channels with a bit more interest, and so on, leaving heavily watched channels like ESPN, HBO and so on for the "drop dead date" years from now where SD equipment will become obsolete.

 

If it is currently on 119, moving it to MPEG4 might not change the number of people with the ability to watch it all that much. It would only change which people have the ability to watch it. SD only customers who have a triple sat dish lose it, HD customers who have a 3LNB dish gain it - that's probably pretty much a wash numbers-wise.

 

That same reasoning would apply to everything currently on 119. If they start moving those channels off 119 onto 99/103, SD subscribers who really want that content will have an incentive to upgrade. I wonder if there's other such migration from 119 or this was a one-off (i.e., maybe the feed is changing from MPEG2 to MPEG4 to save money and Directv can't or doesn't want to transcode it back to MPEG2)


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#4 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:08 AM

And BTW ... wow;

 

Looking at one of the old Dinah Shore shows on JLTV produced in the late '50s, and while I enjoy such classic TV shows, the PQ on this is absolutely terrible.

 

Man ... how was this show recorded at the time?

 

On an 8mm home movie camera or something? :)

 

Or do all such TV shows of that era really look this way due to the early camera and recording technology, and usually require digital re-mastering for restoration which this one JLTV is broadcasting clearly wasn't done?  

 

The picture is almost un-watchable as it's a grainy blurry mess that shakes and jitters all over the place.

 

Is this how TV looked in the '50s? Glad I wasn't born quite yet then? :D


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#5 OFFLINE   mreposter

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:15 AM

channel 366.


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#6 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:20 AM

That same reasoning would apply to everything currently on 119. If they start moving those channels off 119 onto 99/103, SD subscribers who really want that content will have an incentive to upgrade. I wonder if there's other such migration from 119 or this was a one-off (i.e., maybe the feed is changing from MPEG2 to MPEG4 to save money and Directv can't or doesn't want to transcode it back to MPEG2)

 

This makes me wonder. What does Directv do in this situation? If a SD customer was watching a channel and it moves to MPEG4, will Directv upgrade them to a HD dish and R22 receivers for free, or will the customer have to upgrade to HD and pay the monthly HD fee (though I suppose that would be waived for a year or two if they threaten to cancel over it)


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#7 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:26 AM

It depends how it was captured. Some really rare shows that are recovered are exactly that, an 8mm or similar camera recording a TV screen at the station or even via a hobbyist at their home who was smart enough to realize that at some point people would want to see this content again in the future.

#8 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 06:36 AM

Since Directv wants to eventually migrate off MPEG2/SD entirely at some point, it makes sense that they'd move the lesser watched niche channels at first, then channels with a bit more interest, and so on, leaving heavily watched channels like ESPN, HBO and so on for the "drop dead date" years from now where SD equipment will become obsolete.


Eventually ... but the immediate problem is having enough PI (public interest) channels at each satellite location. Making sure the PI count is in the right range is the biggest influence today in placing SD channels on the "HD" satellites.
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#9 OFFLINE   gpg

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:06 AM

I watch some of the old shows on JLTV. I think the recordings are called kinescopes, and they all make me want to turn on the defogger for my tv. Still, I enjoy seeing Soupy Sales, Jack Benny and some of the other old timers. Moving the channel off 119 helps me because when Spring rolls around (hard to imagine with the near white-out conditions I'm seeing outside right now) the leaves block out the signal. Moving to 99 or 103 fixes that problem for me.
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#10 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:07 AM

does any one knows if this channels has been, at any time, on the 101? to it has always ben on the 119?


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#11 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:09 AM

And BTW ... wow;

 

Looking at one of the old Dinah Shore shows on JLTV produced in the late '50s, and while I enjoy such classic TV shows, the PQ on this is absolutely terrible.

 

Man ... how was this show recorded at the time?

 

On an 8mm home movie camera or something? :)

 

Or do all such TV shows of that era really look this way due to the early camera and recording technology, and usually require digital re-mastering for restoration which this one JLTV is broadcasting clearly wasn't done?  

 

The picture is almost un-watchable as it's a grainy blurry mess that shakes and jitters all over the place.

 

Is this how TV looked in the '50s? Glad I wasn't born quite yet then? :D

Yes, that's the way it looked.



#12 OFFLINE   gpg

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:11 AM

does any one knows if this channels has been, at any time, on the 101? to it has always ben on the 119?


Always on 119.
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#13 OFFLINE   yosoyellobo

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:39 AM

And BTW ... wow;
 
Looking at one of the old Dinah Shore shows on JLTV produced in the late '50s, and while I enjoy such classic TV shows, the PQ on this is absolutely terrible.
 
Man ... how was this show recorded at the time?
 
On an 8mm home movie camera or something? :)
 
Or do all such TV shows of that era really look this way due to the early camera and recording technology, and usually require digital re-mastering for restoration which this one JLTV is broadcasting clearly wasn't done?  
 
The picture is almost un-watchable as it's a grainy blurry mess that shakes and jitters all over the place.
 
Is this how TV looked in the '50s? Glad I wasn't born quite yet then? :D


That is how we all look back then. :)
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#14 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:41 AM

Live TV shows in the 1950s were recorded through a telecine process that essentially pointed a film camera at a TV screen... and it looks it. Shows like I Love Lucy and The Honeymooners were filmed, which is why the quality is so good.
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#15 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 09:07 AM

This makes me wonder. What does Directv do in this situation? If a SD customer was watching a channel and it moves to MPEG4, will Directv upgrade them to a HD dish and R22 receivers for free, or will the customer have to upgrade to HD and pay the monthly HD fee (though I suppose that would be waived for a year or two if they threaten to cancel over it)

 

They do this for MPEG4 only local markets, they get HD equipment and don't have to pay the HD fee (unless they want the HD feeds), but they don't do this for MPEG4 channels like this.



#16 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 09:10 AM

Live TV shows in the 1950s were recorded through a telecine process that essentially pointed a film camera at a TV screen... and it looks it. Shows like I Love Lucy and The Honeymooners were filmed, which is why the quality is so good.

Yep, just like they did with the moon landing...


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#17 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:39 AM

Live TV shows in the 1950s were recorded through a telecine process that essentially pointed a film camera at a TV screen... and it looks it. Shows like I Love Lucy and The Honeymooners were filmed, which is why the quality is so good.

I see;

 

However I do notice that episodes of the Honeymooners have that strange and ugly contrast to it almost like a film negative, particularly around the borders of the characters and objects.

 

I wonder is that a byproduct of the DuMont "Electronicam" TV film system http://en.wikipedia....ners#Production which made it better than conventional Kinescope recording for re-broadcast, but still had some PQ drawbacks which made it inferior to the 35mm direct film productions like the I Love Lucy show and others?     


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#18 OFFLINE   billsharpe

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 02:22 PM

And BTW ... wow;

 

Looking at one of the old Dinah Shore shows on JLTV produced in the late '50s, and while I enjoy such classic TV shows, the PQ on this is absolutely terrible.

 

Man ... how was this show recorded at the time?

 

On an 8mm home movie camera or something? :)

 

Or do all such TV shows of that era really look this way due to the early camera and recording technology, and usually require digital re-mastering for restoration which this one JLTV is broadcasting clearly wasn't done?  

 

The picture is almost un-watchable as it's a grainy blurry mess that shakes and jitters all over the place.

 

Is this how TV looked in the '50s? Glad I wasn't born quite yet then? :D

If the show was recorded before 1956 it was probably done via kinescope, which placed a 16mm or 35mm camera in front of a video screen. The quality was indeed pretty bad, but should not have jittered that much. You can see kinescopes of Kukla, Fran, and Ollie on YouTube. That was the only way I could watch the show in the late 40's in Philadelphia as the coaxial cable didn't reach Chicago.


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#19 OFFLINE   Tom Servo

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 03:49 AM

Interesting stuff being posted in this thread. :)

 

I didn't know JLTV was on 119.  In fact over the years I'd kinda forgotten about it since everything is so seamless now.  I seem (ha) to recall there being a noticeable delay in tuning to channels on the "other" satellites with one of the older SD systems.  The Sony receivers, perhaps?  Man, I think I've forgotten more about DirecTV than I've learned!

 

The telecine process for capturing live shows was certainly less than ideal, but as long as the film stock was properly preserved it could maintain almost all the quality of the original broadcast, such that it was.  I've seen a few seconds of the Dinah Shore program but it didn't have any issues that I can recall.

 

Something tells me the show was transferred to tape at some point back when tape was still new, and that's the medium that's introducing the dropouts and jitter.  I'd have to watch it to be sure, though.



#20 OFFLINE   SamC

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 05:24 AM

This makes me wonder. What does Directv do in this situation? If a SD customer was watching a channel and it moves to MPEG4, will Directv upgrade them to a HD dish and R22 receivers for free, or will the customer have to upgrade to HD and pay the monthly HD fee (though I suppose that would be waived for a year or two if they threaten to cancel over it)

 

Neither, exactly.  The customer will get "upgraded" to an HD dish and R22 or better receiver, but the receiver will be locked to get SD channels only (if you open up the settings, the toggle between will be locked on "show SD channels only").

 

Now, DirecTV can, without a service call, sell that customer HD.  All the rep has to do is unlock the toggle.






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