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Will there ever be an HR25?


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40 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 01:37 PM

Id expect a new h25 version that could add a hard drive.

And I don't ever expect them to add a genie go into a receiver.

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#22 OFFLINE   mrdobolina

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 03:27 PM

And I don't ever expect them to add a genie go into a receiver.

Why not? 


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#23 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 05:20 PM

Why not? 

 

That would add cost to every receiver for something that a customer only needs one (or zero) of. It would make sense to build it into the Genie at some point, but not into receivers or smaller DVRs.


Edited by slice1900, 20 February 2014 - 05:20 PM.

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#24 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:05 AM

What about simply upgrading the HR24 to have the power supply outside of the box, just like the HR44?  Make the entire box smaller and make the a point of failure (the power supply) replaceable as well as remove heat from the harddrive.

I suspect that the primary point of failure is the hard drive. Using power bricks and wall warts is arguably a negative selling point. I'd rather see the PIs and other stuff built in if practical. If they can't make it work, I think they should offer a single PSU that powers everything.

Making the box significantly smaller is probably at odds with heat dissipation.

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#25 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:08 AM

I suspect that the primary point of failure is the hard drive. Using power bricks and wall warts is arguably a negative selling point. I'd rather see the PIs and other stuff built in if practical. If they can't make it work, I think they should offer a single PSU that powers everything.

Making the box significantly smaller is probably at odds with heat dissipation.

Removing the Power supply does remove a lot of the heat and allows for them to be smaller in size. Upping the voltage to 21 might eliminate the need for the PI.


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#26 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:09 AM

But to the initial question, Mike White has said there will be a new low cost DVR. Whether it will be called HR25 is unknown.

Or the HR25S?

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#27 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:21 AM

Removing the Power supply does remove a lot of the heat and allows for them to be smaller in size. Upping the voltage to 21 might eliminate the need for the PI.

how are multiple receivers to operate if they all want to power the LNB/Switch.  and for that matter, if only one powers the LNB, and that receive breaks, than none of the other works.  PI must be external 


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#28 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:45 AM

how are multiple receivers to operate if they all want to power the LNB/Switch.  and for that matter, if only one powers the LNB, and that receive breaks, than none of the other works.  PI must be external 

I am not an electrical person, I am mechanical.

If I put 3 pumps on a water line and have them set to pressurize the line to 40psi that is what I will get, 40psi. It does not matter how many pumps are on the line as long as they are all set to 40psi.

 

Is this different with electricity ?

If I had one that was 21 volts and added a second one at the same voltage wouldn't it still just be 21 volts ?

Maybe it would up the amps ? and be too much ?


Edited by jimmie57, 21 February 2014 - 09:46 AM.

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#29 OFFLINE   mrdobolina

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:13 AM

That would add cost to every receiver for something that a customer only needs one (or zero) of. It would make sense to build it into the Genie at some point, but not into receivers or smaller DVRs.

That's actually what I suggested...adding the GenieGo into the Genie in the future.  But, given how DirecTV manages their inventory, I don't see how they could or would manage something like that when a Genie is a Genie no matter what the model # is. 

 

I suspect that the primary point of failure is the hard drive. Using power bricks and wall warts is arguably a negative selling point. I'd rather see the PIs and other stuff built in if practical. If they can't make it work, I think they should offer a single PSU that powers everything.

Making the box significantly smaller is probably at odds with heat dissipation.

Isn't one of the main hard drive killers heat from the power supply?  I thought I read that one of the benefits of the HR44 is that, with the external PS, the hard drive will last much longer?  I for one like the fact that my HR44 has a power brick.  It's hidden behind our entertainment console and the interior of that console is MUCH cooler now that there is an HR44 in there vs. when we had an HR24 inside. 


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#30 OFFLINE   codespy

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:44 AM

Heat is the #1 killer of all electrical components.


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#31 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 11:21 AM

how are multiple receivers to operate if they all want to power the LNB/Switch.  and for that matter, if only one powers the LNB, and that receive breaks, than none of the other works.  PI must be external 

 

Considering that's how legacy receivers work, I don't think it is that far fetched! They can all power the LNB, they just need a diode in the output (as well as new splitters that pass power on all ports) This is exactly how the redundant power supplies in computer servers/networking equipment work. They all (roughly) share the load, when one drops out the other(s) provide more power to make up for the loss.

 

The reason why you don't want to do this is that you make the power supplies more expensive. They have to handle more load and dissipate more heat, and the larger operational range makes them less efficient. I think that was probably one of the things they wanted to get away from with SWM...


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#32 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 11:32 AM

I am not an electrical person, I am mechanical.

If I put 3 pumps on a water line and have them set to pressurize the line to 40psi that is what I will get, 40psi. It does not matter how many pumps are on the line as long as they are all set to 40psi.

 

Is this different with electricity ?

If I had one that was 21 volts and added a second one at the same voltage wouldn't it still just be 21 volts ?

Maybe it would up the amps ? and be too much ?

 

Nope, it works the same way it does in your experience with pumps. Voltage, current and resistance are sometimes explained in terms of pumping water through pipes since the latter is something most people can visualize. Voltage is the pressure, current is the flow rate, and resistance is the size of the pipe.


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#33 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 11:45 AM

I am not an electrical person, I am mechanical.

If I put 3 pumps on a water line and have them set to pressurize the line to 40psi that is what I will get, 40psi. It does not matter how many pumps are on the line as long as they are all set to 40psi.

 

Is this different with electricity ?

If I had one that was 21 volts and added a second one at the same voltage wouldn't it still just be 21 volts ?

Maybe it would up the amps ? and be too much ?

 

 

Nope, it works the same way it does in your experience with pumps. Voltage, current and resistance are sometimes explained in terms of pumping water through pipes since the latter is something most people can visualize. Voltage is the pressure, current is the flow rate, and resistance is the size of the pipe.

makes sense


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#34 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 01:32 PM

Nope, it works the same way it does in your experience with pumps. Voltage, current and resistance are sometimes explained in terms of pumping water through pipes since the latter is something most people can visualize. Voltage is the pressure, current is the flow rate, and resistance is the size of the pipe.

 

As far as electricity goes, it depends on whether the devices are paralleled or in series.  In the pump example that would be a parallel setup.  For a series pump setup, you'd have to have each pump feed the next pump in line.  If one pump fails, none of them work.  In parallel, if one fails, the other two work.

 

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#35 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 02:39 PM

However, paralleling DC supplies gets tricky.  While the water analogy is used, you have to provide additional circuitry (think back-flow valves) to keep a DC supply from becoming a load (think failure) to the other parallel supplies.  (Think smoke)



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#36 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 04:51 PM

However, paralleling DC supplies gets tricky.  While the water analogy is used, you have to provide additional circuitry (think back-flow valves) to keep a DC supply from becoming a load (think failure) to the other parallel supplies.  (Think smoke)

 

Yep, you can extend the plumbing analogy: diodes are the backflow valves of the electrical world.

 

I actually have three DC power supplies paralleled using a 3 way diode steering splitter for makeshift N+1 power for my gear. Not really how that splitter it is intended to be used, but I checked with Holland and was told that the voltage rating for their splitters is quite conservative and such a use would be fine up to at least a 5A draw (the fusing current for the gauge of internal wiring it uses is over 15A)


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#37 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 11:58 AM

Isn't one of the main hard drive killers heat from the power supply?

The main heat producer for hard drives is the hard drive itself. That's why if you see a fan in a DVR, it is probably ducted to or from the hard drive.

Of course if you're one of those that believes you MUST stack your DVR on top of your AVR in a closed cabinet/closet, its all academic.

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#38 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 12:39 PM

True confession:

 

I have stacked an AVR on top of an AVR.

 

 

If a DISH or DirecTV box does  have airholes in the top (my HR20, for instance) I don't stack anything on top.



#39 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 01:28 PM

However, paralleling DC supplies gets tricky.  While the water analogy is used, you have to provide additional circuitry (think back-flow valves) to keep a DC supply from becoming a load (think failure) to the other parallel supplies.  (Think smoke)

 

Haven't done much DC work, it's uncommon in factories.  

 

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#40 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 01:32 PM

The main heat producer for hard drives is the hard drive itself. That's why if you see a fan in a DVR, it is probably ducted to or from the hard drive.

Of course if you're one of those that believes you MUST stack your DVR on top of your AVR in a closed cabinet/closet, its all academic.

 

I've never worked on a DVR that had a "ducted" fan.  They all are in the open near the HDD or mounted on the rear bulkhead.  But my experience is limited to D* DVRs and the old D* Tivos. 

 

Rich






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