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Aereo loses in 10th Circuit court


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#26 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:23 PM

Interesting to speculate what we'd have now if the FCC had ruled that re-broadcasting was just fine, and no rights accrued to the original broadcaster. Well, it could have happened!

It would just mean that your local stations would all be home shopping channels, and there would be no news, no local production and no one to answer the phone when you call them. Think "Mega-Corp radio".....


It depends on if the other protections built into the current law survived.

The original problem was a satellite company picking up local network stations and transmitting them nationwide - which violates the affiliation agreements of the stations and could, theoretically, lead to the problems kenglish proposes. Now that the satellite market has grown to a combined 34 million "subscribers" one could calculate that nearly a third of television viewers would be able to receive a completely out of market feed and not their local station. (Subscriber counts include a calculated number representing commercial accounts - so it is inaccurate to say the subscriber number is the number of television households. But it is the number we have to work with.)

The decision of the courts was that satellite companies could not do that ... and the law passed by Congress that allows re-broadcast was written to respect the affiliation agreements ... delivering local channels only into their local markets (defined by Nielson - not their actual RF coverage) and allowing out of market "distant" stations only where no local affiliate covered the viewer. Not a horrible law as it gave permission overriding the court decision.

Where the system fails is with "consent to carry". I don't mind the regional restrictions that protect the affiliation agreements networks have worked out with their stations. But the "consent to carry" system where a station transmitting a freely received OTA broadcast can refuse to have that signal delivered to customers they should be reaching is wrong.

So keep the regional restrictions ... protect the local stations from being replaced by an out of market affiliate. But get rid of consent to carry. All it has become is an additional revenue stream for something the station is already supposed to be doing ... reaching their own market with their TV signals. The benefit of reaching more TV homes should be payment enough.
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#27 OFFLINE   jsk

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:57 PM

Scenario:  If I live in an apartment building and have a sling box with an OTA tuner connected to my apartment's OTA antenna, that would be legal, right?  

 

So, what if I were to be able to rent rack space in a server room, rent an OTA tuner that is connected to a common OTA antenna and a Sling box.  Why wouldn't that be legal?  That is very much like what Aero is doing  except they claim to be also renting out a dedicated antenna to you as well and the electronics are packed into a smaller space.  I don't even think they should have to give you your own antenna, just so you have your own tuner and stream.

 

If the courts rule against Aero, then would Sling boxes/adapters also be considered illegal?  I wonder if that is why Dish is concerned with this.  Also, they would probably want to take over Aero and integrate the technology in their receivers, which would mean no more retrans battles in Aero markets.

 

Also, would it be legal for people to rent equipment only "apartments" with their own mailing addresses?  Each "apartment" would have an Internet connection and a coax cable connected to either an OTA antenna, local cable service (connected by the local cable company), Dish Network dish or DirecTV dish.  Each "tenant" would have to purchase their own legal subscriptions using the mailing address as the service address.  The tenants could rent various pieces of equipment such as OTA tuners, cable/satellite boxes and technologies like Sling that would provide them with their own stream from their equipment.  Of course, no pets would be allowed.


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#28 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:54 PM

If the courts rule against Aero, then would Sling boxes/adapters also be considered illegal?


If I were to buy a VCR (or in this century, a DVD recorder) and record television programs for distribution to others that would be illegal. Such illegal use does not make the VCR or DVD recorder illegal. The use of a device for an illegal purpose does not make all uses of that device illegal.

If the use of a device for an illegal purpose made that device illegal there would be no guns. There would also be no cars since they have been used for crimes ranging from speeding to homicide (not to mention they can be illegally parked). One can commit crimes with many everyday items ... someone falsely reports a crime on a telephone and all telephones become illegal? Someone strangles a woman with her own clothes and clothing becomes illegal? (That one would conflict with public indecency laws.)

The Slingbox would be like the VCR ... it would not become illegal simply because it could be used for illegal purposes.
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#29 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:37 PM

No. 

Stations would be selling ads as they do now, counting noses of OTA and subscription services, as they do now. They just wouldn't have the direct revenue from sat and cable companies.

 

I am more interested in other facets of that hypothetical. 

You mean, "Like radio stations still have staffs of live DJ's, and do big remotes....."?

 

Truth is, many stations are barely surviving only due to the retrans money they get. Without it, plenty of stations would just have to close their doors.

The "numbers" in the ratings are only a selling-point for the number one and (maybe) number two stations in a market. Commercials are sold cheaply to all comers, and the fees make up the difference between life and death.



#30 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 02:55 PM

For some, no doubt. There'll always be marginal operators in most industries. 

 

But while it'd put the screws to some, most stations would remain competitive,  pulling a lot of material from the mother ship, but maintaining a decent news and weather staff.

 

I don't see how Radio DJ's fit into a discussion of TV retrans fees. 


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#31 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:24 PM

I don't see how Radio DJ's fit into a discussion of TV retrans fees.


DJs are expensive ... especially good ones. Random voiceovers are less expensive. When one is cutting costs the people are often the first to go. In TV it would be local produced programming and local news that would get the axe. There would be more infomercials when not in network programming. Assuming the channel could afford to be a network affiliate.
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#32 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:06 PM

DJs are expensive ... especially good ones. Random voiceovers are less expensive. When one is cutting costs the people are often the first to go. In TV it would be local produced programming and local news that would get the axe. There would be more infomercials when not in network programming. Assuming the channel could afford to be a network affiliate.

How many live Dj's on TV since American Bandstand? Or maybe Mtv, etc. Yes, good ones are expensive, but local DJ's? Live DJs are a luxury, and are pretty scarce even on radio.

 

Nonetheless, there would still be local TV news in the absence of retrans fees, though I concede some marginal stations would go under. 


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#33 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 05:07 PM

How many live Dj's on TV since American Bandstand?


You changed the topic. You said "I don't see how Radio DJ's fit into a discussion of TV retrans fees." It is an example how something considered important - perhaps even the most important element - is lost with cost cutting.

Radio without DJs? Like a jukebox without personality? Fairly common now ... and fairly silly as it was the personalities that made the station better than the next station over playing the same songs.

TV stations were built around the concept of serving the community ... and local produced programming and news/information programming filled that need. Now cheap syndication and paid infomercials fill the hours. Including hours once filled with news.


Nonetheless, there would still be local TV news in the absence of retrans fees, though I concede some marginal stations would go under.


It is a shame that stations were given this as a revenue stream instead of access to viewers. I have no issue with must carry laws ... I disagree with consent to carry and the fees consent allows. Stations survived without a pay per satellite/cable viewer system in the past. They should be able to survive without the extra extortion.

And if they do get the extra fees viewers should get what they are paying for ... less syndicated/infomercial crap and more local production.
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#34 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 05:47 PM

It was kenglsih who introduced radio DJs to the discussion. I see the analogy, but that's what it is. 

 

I agree with the rest of your post, but wonder if even canned DJ's might have personalities? At least some of them! 

You changed the topic. You said "I don't see how Radio DJ's fit into a discussion of TV retrans fees." It is an example how something considered important - perhaps even the most important element - is lost with cost cutting.

Radio without DJs? Like a jukebox without personality? Fairly common now ... and fairly silly as it was the personalities that made the station better than the next station over playing the same songs.


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#35 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 05:14 AM

My comment about radio DJ's was due to the fact that radio and TV are both part of the Broadcast industry, and radio has already fallen greatly, due to the lack of advertising income, and the excess regulations that their competitors do not face. I see the same path being taken by the Television side of the industry.



#36 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 10:35 AM

My comment about radio DJ's was due to the fact that radio and TV are both part of the Broadcast industry, and radio has already fallen greatly, due to the lack of advertising income, and the excess regulations that their competitors do not face. I see the same path being taken by the Television side of the industry.

And it's understandable, but I do think radio's decline has more to do with a changing world than regulations. Ad revenue is a function of number of ears tuned in, and those are affected by many things. Competition from sat. radio, Pandora, Spotify, etc. as well as TV have diminished the marketplace for radio. 


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#37 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 03:49 PM

If the alternatives to radio had to worry about picture quality as much as the alternatives to TV/satellite/cable then radio might have had a better chance. For now they have to live in the margins of profitability trying to make a little money often enough to survive or provide something that truly competes. Not a bad thing.

My local radio station plays too many commercials and has an annoying morning show. I can get the music and less banter via satellite. Guess what I listen to?

Somehow the "less popular" stations in the TV market are surviving as "must carry" (no payment from cable or satellite) stations. The "consent to carry" stations should be able to make it on their popularity and ad revenue. But the "because we can" fees must be paid. :(
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#38 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 12:35 AM

Interesting article; including images and a brief video taking a closer look at how Aereo works behind the scenes.
 
Aereo Shows Off Their Rooftop Antenna Farm Ahead Of Supreme Court Ruling (TechCrunch)



#39 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 11:48 PM

Ahead of Supreme Court trial, Aereo opens lobbying and advocacy site at ProtectMyAntenna.org
 
 
 
 
 


#40 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 05:23 AM

My comment about radio DJ's was due to the fact that radio and TV are both part of the Broadcast industry, and radio has already fallen greatly, due to the lack of advertising income, and the excess regulations that their competitors do not face. I see the same path being taken by the Television side of the industry.

 

 

And it's understandable, but I do think radio's decline has more to do with a changing world than regulations. Ad revenue is a function of number of ears tuned in, and those are affected by many things. Competition from sat. radio, Pandora, Spotify, etc. as well as TV have diminished the marketplace for radio. 

The decline of broadcast radio rests solely at the feet of Clear Channel Communications and other megalopolies.


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#41 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 01:55 PM

The decline of broadcast radio rests solely at the feet of Clear Channel Communications and other megalopolies.

Could you kindly elaborate? 


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#42 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 02:57 PM

Could you kindly elaborate?

Clear Channel consolidating most of their operations, firing most of the local DJ's in their mid and small market stations, replacing them with a satellite based format called "Premium Choice" made up of DJs from their major market stations with pretaped "live" local ads read by someone who can't pronounce any of the local cities and streets correctly. Along with a playlist dictated from corporate that doesn't take into consideration any of the local music tastes.

The best is this failure at the Boston Jingle Ball where despite it being known that the headliner was stuck in NYC because of a snowstorm before the doors opened, they continued to have their DJs say she's backstage and will be on stage soon during the "live" backstage reports:
http://www.spin.com/...at-jingle-ball/

#43 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:02 AM

 

On a final exam, University of California Berkeley law professor Pamela Samuelson asked her copyright class to answer whether Aereo is, essentially, a true technological innovation or just a legal one. It's a nuance the Supreme Court will consider, too, Tuesday as it ultimately weighs on whether Aereo's service to stream local over-the-air broadcast TV is violating the copyrights of the television broadcasters that are suing to stop it.

 

"My poor students were suffering enormously," Samuelson said, after they complained about the difficulty of the Aereo question. "I told them, 'I was really interested in what you thought!'"

 

Why? Digital copyright expert Samuelson isn't certain how the Court is likely to go on the case, which sets the stage for reinterpreting video and digital law in today's technology-laced era. The legal minds of Berkeley aren't alone. Professors from many of the country's top law schools say it's unusually hard to predict because the Supreme Court's track record in copyright varies, because copyright law is politically ambiguous and because an Aereo decision could radically change not only how the US interprets copyright in the digital age but also what technologies -- some of which are the bedrock of the Internet itself -- are infringing upon it.

 

This is where copyright law comes in. The Copyright Act of 1976 distinguishes between public performances and private performances. Private ones aren't subject to copyright rules, which is why you don't need to pay a copyright holder when you watch TV in your living room. Public performances, such as a cable or satellite company funneling channels to its customers en masse, are subject to copyright and required to pay a fee.

http://www.cnet.com/...-tough-to-call/

 

 

Now, see, I don't consider cable or satellite to be public performances.  There are delivery methods to facilitate private viewing inside one's home.

 

A public performance would be a program displayed on a TV screen in a bar where 100 or so people could view it at the same time as they wander in and out of that bar.  The delivery method would be irrelevant - OTA, cable, satellite or private feed.


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#44 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:07 AM

From the same article:

 

 

The evolution of copyright in the US has followed a clear pattern, according to Dotan Oliar, a University of Virginia law professor who has written about the legal trade-off between copyright and innovation. A copyright-based industry makes money under a status quo until a disruptive technology threatens it, the copyright holders go to court or Congress, and the model morphs to a new status quo until the next disruptive technology surfaces, he says.

 

Only six cases addressing the same copyright issues as Aereo have actually made it to the Supreme Court over the last 100 years, Oliar said. Once there, however, the pattern ends. The Court has found infringement in some and none in others. It has reversed lower court decisions, and it has affirmed others. "I cannot say, 'Here's the consistent line.' There is no consistent line," he said.


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#45 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:05 AM

Clear Channel consolidating most of their operations, firing most of the local DJ's in their mid and small market stations, replacing them with a satellite based format called "Premium Choice" made up of DJs from their major market stations with pretaped "live" local ads read by someone who can't pronounce any of the local cities and streets correctly. Along with a playlist dictated from corporate that doesn't take into consideration any of the local music tastes.

The best is this failure at the Boston Jingle Ball where despite it being known that the headliner was stuck in NYC because of a snowstorm before the doors opened, they continued to have their DJs say she's backstage and will be on stage soon during the "live" backstage reports:
http://www.spin.com/...at-jingle-ball/

Thank you! 

But while that speaks to the decline of the quality of radio broadcasts and the loss of many local DJ's, Clear Channel is the mechanism, and economics is the driving force, on top of large changes in technology including internet delivery.


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#46 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:24 AM

But while that speaks to the decline of the quality of radio broadcasts and the loss of many local DJ's, Clear Channel is the mechanism, and economics is the driving force, on top of large changes in technology including internet delivery.

You're wagging the dog.

 

Clear Channel took the Walmart/Borg approach.  Be assimilated or die.  They bought everything in sight and applied pressure to those who refused until they either gave in or were forced to sell.  If they sold to somebody else, Clear Channel bought the new guys out.

 

The local DJs weren't dropped by economics.  Some were offered jobs in the computerized environment, other were told to take a long walk off a short pier.

 

It's because of CC and their ilk that I stopped listening to radio.  It's not because the stations died due to lack of listeners to where CC could come in and buy up the carcases and relaunch them.  They would take over the top stations in a market, change the popular format to their robo format and drive people to CDs.


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#47 OFFLINE   Athlon646464

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:11 AM

Update: The Aereo Supreme Court Case Is About to Change TV Forever
 
Aereo heads to court against the nation's largest broadcasters, which claim the service amounts to theft because the startup pays nothing to capture and sell their free, over-the-air broadcast signals
 
Upstart Internet video company Aereo will square off against the nation’s largest TV broadcasters on Tuesday (April 22, 2014) in one of the most closely watched Supreme Court cases involving the media business in years. The outcome of the case could have important implications for Internet streaming, cloud computing, and the future of the TV industry itself....
 
 
ap974407031942-copy.jpg
Chet Kanojia, founder and CEO of Aereo, Inc., stands next to a server array of antennas in New York, Dec. 20, 2012.
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#48 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:46 AM

That'd be one court case I would love to watch! I checked CNN's listing, and nothing specific about it. I don't even know how to check C-Span!


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#49 OFFLINE   Athlon646464

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:05 AM

That'd be one court case I would love to watch! I checked CNN's listing, and nothing specific about it. I don't even know how to check C-Span!

 

Although the Supreme Court does not allow camera, C-SPAN is having discussions about the oral arguments.

 

See: http://www.c-span.org/


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#50 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:15 AM

Thanks! 

I was astounded at the variety and number of very non-current topics on C-S 3:

 

WEDNESDAY April 23, 2014
 
THURSDAY April 24, 2014
 
SATURDAY April 26, 2014
 

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