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Aereo loses in 10th Circuit court


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#41 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 01:55 PM

The decline of broadcast radio rests solely at the feet of Clear Channel Communications and other megalopolies.

Could you kindly elaborate? 


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#42 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 02:57 PM

Could you kindly elaborate?

Clear Channel consolidating most of their operations, firing most of the local DJ's in their mid and small market stations, replacing them with a satellite based format called "Premium Choice" made up of DJs from their major market stations with pretaped "live" local ads read by someone who can't pronounce any of the local cities and streets correctly. Along with a playlist dictated from corporate that doesn't take into consideration any of the local music tastes.

The best is this failure at the Boston Jingle Ball where despite it being known that the headliner was stuck in NYC because of a snowstorm before the doors opened, they continued to have their DJs say she's backstage and will be on stage soon during the "live" backstage reports:
http://www.spin.com/...at-jingle-ball/

#43 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:02 AM

 

On a final exam, University of California Berkeley law professor Pamela Samuelson asked her copyright class to answer whether Aereo is, essentially, a true technological innovation or just a legal one. It's a nuance the Supreme Court will consider, too, Tuesday as it ultimately weighs on whether Aereo's service to stream local over-the-air broadcast TV is violating the copyrights of the television broadcasters that are suing to stop it.

 

"My poor students were suffering enormously," Samuelson said, after they complained about the difficulty of the Aereo question. "I told them, 'I was really interested in what you thought!'"

 

Why? Digital copyright expert Samuelson isn't certain how the Court is likely to go on the case, which sets the stage for reinterpreting video and digital law in today's technology-laced era. The legal minds of Berkeley aren't alone. Professors from many of the country's top law schools say it's unusually hard to predict because the Supreme Court's track record in copyright varies, because copyright law is politically ambiguous and because an Aereo decision could radically change not only how the US interprets copyright in the digital age but also what technologies -- some of which are the bedrock of the Internet itself -- are infringing upon it.

 

This is where copyright law comes in. The Copyright Act of 1976 distinguishes between public performances and private performances. Private ones aren't subject to copyright rules, which is why you don't need to pay a copyright holder when you watch TV in your living room. Public performances, such as a cable or satellite company funneling channels to its customers en masse, are subject to copyright and required to pay a fee.

http://www.cnet.com/...-tough-to-call/

 

 

Now, see, I don't consider cable or satellite to be public performances.  There are delivery methods to facilitate private viewing inside one's home.

 

A public performance would be a program displayed on a TV screen in a bar where 100 or so people could view it at the same time as they wander in and out of that bar.  The delivery method would be irrelevant - OTA, cable, satellite or private feed.


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#44 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:07 AM

From the same article:

 

 

The evolution of copyright in the US has followed a clear pattern, according to Dotan Oliar, a University of Virginia law professor who has written about the legal trade-off between copyright and innovation. A copyright-based industry makes money under a status quo until a disruptive technology threatens it, the copyright holders go to court or Congress, and the model morphs to a new status quo until the next disruptive technology surfaces, he says.

 

Only six cases addressing the same copyright issues as Aereo have actually made it to the Supreme Court over the last 100 years, Oliar said. Once there, however, the pattern ends. The Court has found infringement in some and none in others. It has reversed lower court decisions, and it has affirmed others. "I cannot say, 'Here's the consistent line.' There is no consistent line," he said.


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#45 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:05 AM

Clear Channel consolidating most of their operations, firing most of the local DJ's in their mid and small market stations, replacing them with a satellite based format called "Premium Choice" made up of DJs from their major market stations with pretaped "live" local ads read by someone who can't pronounce any of the local cities and streets correctly. Along with a playlist dictated from corporate that doesn't take into consideration any of the local music tastes.

The best is this failure at the Boston Jingle Ball where despite it being known that the headliner was stuck in NYC because of a snowstorm before the doors opened, they continued to have their DJs say she's backstage and will be on stage soon during the "live" backstage reports:
http://www.spin.com/...at-jingle-ball/

Thank you! 

But while that speaks to the decline of the quality of radio broadcasts and the loss of many local DJ's, Clear Channel is the mechanism, and economics is the driving force, on top of large changes in technology including internet delivery.


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#46 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:24 AM

But while that speaks to the decline of the quality of radio broadcasts and the loss of many local DJ's, Clear Channel is the mechanism, and economics is the driving force, on top of large changes in technology including internet delivery.

You're wagging the dog.

 

Clear Channel took the Walmart/Borg approach.  Be assimilated or die.  They bought everything in sight and applied pressure to those who refused until they either gave in or were forced to sell.  If they sold to somebody else, Clear Channel bought the new guys out.

 

The local DJs weren't dropped by economics.  Some were offered jobs in the computerized environment, other were told to take a long walk off a short pier.

 

It's because of CC and their ilk that I stopped listening to radio.  It's not because the stations died due to lack of listeners to where CC could come in and buy up the carcases and relaunch them.  They would take over the top stations in a market, change the popular format to their robo format and drive people to CDs.


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#47 OFFLINE   Athlon646464

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:11 AM

Update: The Aereo Supreme Court Case Is About to Change TV Forever
 
Aereo heads to court against the nation's largest broadcasters, which claim the service amounts to theft because the startup pays nothing to capture and sell their free, over-the-air broadcast signals
 
Upstart Internet video company Aereo will square off against the nation’s largest TV broadcasters on Tuesday (April 22, 2014) in one of the most closely watched Supreme Court cases involving the media business in years. The outcome of the case could have important implications for Internet streaming, cloud computing, and the future of the TV industry itself....
 
 
ap974407031942-copy.jpg
Chet Kanojia, founder and CEO of Aereo, Inc., stands next to a server array of antennas in New York, Dec. 20, 2012.
Time

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#48 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:46 AM

That'd be one court case I would love to watch! I checked CNN's listing, and nothing specific about it. I don't even know how to check C-Span!


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#49 OFFLINE   Athlon646464

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:05 AM

That'd be one court case I would love to watch! I checked CNN's listing, and nothing specific about it. I don't even know how to check C-Span!

 

Although the Supreme Court does not allow camera, C-SPAN is having discussions about the oral arguments.

 

See: http://www.c-span.org/


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#50 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:15 AM

Thanks! 

I was astounded at the variety and number of very non-current topics on C-S 3:

 

WEDNESDAY April 23, 2014
 
THURSDAY April 24, 2014
 
SATURDAY April 26, 2014
 

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#51 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:20 AM

I didn't see anything airing until Friday evening at 8 PM—on regular C-Span.... But just 'cause I didn't see it, doesn't mean it wasn't there! 


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#52 OFFLINE   Athlon646464

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:29 AM

I didn't see anything airing until Friday evening at 8 PM—on regular C-Span.... But just 'cause I didn't see it, doesn't mean it wasn't there! 

 

Today at 11:30 eastern:

 

http://www.c-span.or...gument-reaction


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#53 OFFLINE   mrdobolina

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:34 AM

I was reading the Time article, and something struck me.  Well, 2, maybe 3, maybe more things.  Before I start, I'm neither a lawyer nor a tech design genius.  In my highly-unknoweldgeable-about-the laws-that-matter-in-this-case opinion, Aereo seems to be in the wrong simply because they are rebroadcasting something without compensating the original broadcaster, and they are charging for that rebroadcast.  I like to think of this like MLB's disclaimer on every game that is broadcast:  "blah blah blah, rebroadcast of this game without the express, written consent of MLB is expressly prohibited, blah blah blah."  At the same time, I think Aereo is on to something, something that Big Broadcasting should have figured out long ago and used to embrace the sea change that is (needs) to happen. 

 

So, if (when) Aereo loses this case, what should they do?  Could they (instead of making viewers pay for their service) offer the service for free and somehow mix in their own advertising and monetize that way?  Again, not sure of the legality of this.  Or, could they sell their technology directly to the big broadcasters and allow them to offer this subscription service to all of their viewers? 

 

Or, my other idea is this:  The Aereo CEO claims they are selling technology, not OTA TV.  If that's true, why not offer an antenna decoder box for a flat fee to consumers?  A box that hooks up to an antenna and also hooks up to your home router.  One model might be just a straight streamer.  Another might have DVR functionality with a hard drive inside.  Then, much like TiVo, they can offer a subscription service to their customers that enables all of the features of the box:  Streaming OTA TV to devices/computers, DVR features, TV to go features, etc. 

 

Could ANY of this work?  Could something like my box idea actually be a boon to satellite providers? 


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#54 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:20 PM

There's already in home technology that does that like the Slingbox, HDHomerun and Tivo's newest model of DVR. You can even do it yourself with a tuner card and open source Media Center software like XBMC or MythTV.

I like how they finally showed a picture of those antennas in action and labeled them as arrays, they cannot operate independently that close because of the wavelengths. (I also wonder if the holdup of the previously announced launch in Philly was because the ABC affiliate is on RF6 along with two other channels on RF2 and RF4 and those antennas cannot pick up a reliable VHF lo signal)

Their big investor Barry Diller is saying if they lose Aereo is dead, which kind of shows where their true intentions lie. The court could rule that they have a right to operate but they are no different then a cable or sat provider so they have to abide by the rules like retransmission consent, closed captioning, SAP, EAS and others. It also gives them their own set of protections that would allow them to expand into a true over the top TV solution, like OTA and cable channels cannot refuse to negotiate with them and they can file complaints if negotations aren't done in good faith. If it was just about the technology they would still provide this service as it's perfect for cases where the ATSC comittee blew it big time when choosing a system that fails in the multipath conditions that occur while you're in motion like riding in a car or train and needs a strong signal that won't work in most areas with the standard telescopic antenna that most analog pocket TVs had. Some manufacturers had pocket ATSC TVs early on during the transition, but as soon as they were used in real world situations and didn't work, they stopped production of them.

#55 OFFLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 03:03 PM

Aereo seems to be in the wrong simply because they are rebroadcasting something without compensating the original broadcaster, and they are charging for that rebroadcast.  

 

Aereo's argument is that, because they have individual antennas for each customer utilizing the service at any given time, they aren't broadcasting anything.   They are sending the signal collected by each antenna to one customer at a time.  That's the opposite of broadcasting.  They are essentially, renting the customer an antenna, that he or she can use to receive an OTA signal from the local TV stations.

 

If you had an antenna on the roof of your house and ran that signal to something like a slingbox, that could then send it to your TV via wire or to your computer, phone or tablet via the Internet, should that be illegal?  Currently, it isn't.

 

Aereo's business is to rent you that antenna and slingbox-like device.

 

Broadcast retransmission laws were written well before a business like Aereo was ever a possibility.  IMO, the correct Supreme Court decision would be that Aereo isn't doing anything wrong, based on current laws.  If Congress wants to pass new laws to address technology such as Aereo, they should do so.  But, it's Congress' job to pass new laws, not the Supreme Court's.



#56 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:57 PM

Well put Mr. Broderick. If Congress and the FCC would properly redefine "retransmission" so that it encompasses anything that operates in a manner which competes with ATSC OTA (which would include cable, satellite and Aereo but would not include cloud services like Google Drive) then this wouldn't need to go through the courts.

The court is involved because lower courts have differed in their interpretations however, so it must decide one way or the other.
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#57 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:03 PM

“Your technological model,” Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. told Aereo’s lawyer, “is based solely on circumventing legal prohibitions that you don’t want to comply with.”

“What disturbs me on the other side,” Justice Stephen G. Breyer said, “is I don’t understand what the decision for you or against you when I write it is going to do to all kinds of other technologies.”

Justice Sonia Sotomayor did not seem persuaded. “It’s not logical to me,” she said, “that you can make these millions of copies and essentially sell them to the public.”

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said Aereo’s business was built on taking content without paying for it. “You are the only player so far that doesn’t pay any royalties at any stage,” she told Mr. Frederick.

Some justices said they found the service suspiciously complicated. “Is there any reason you did it other than not to violate the copyright laws?” Justice Antonin Scalia asked Mr. Frederick.

At Tuesday’s argument, Justice Breyer kept returning to the unknown consequences of a ruling against Aereo.

“I’m hearing everybody having the same problem,” he said of his fellow justices. “I will be absolutely prepared, at least for argument’s sake, to assume” that Aereo’s service is unlawful.

“But then the problem is in the words that do that,” he said, referring to the decision the court will issue, probably in June. Justice Breyer went on to express concern that a ruling against Aereo might limit other innovations “that will really change life,” such as the cloud.

Source: nytimes.com
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#58 OFFLINE   Athlon646464

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 07:08 AM

A ruling will likely come in June.  In checking around the 'net this morning it seems about 60/40 in favor of Aereo, according to the pundits and editorials.


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#59 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:42 AM

I was hoping the Old Coots would have the common sense to throw out the entire pay for retransmission of OTA law.

 

But somehow, I keep forgetting they've been bought and paid for by Corporate America and almost always rule in favor of Big Business over real people.  I can't think of too many business related rulings in favor of the individual.


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#60 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:57 AM

A ruling will likely come in June.  In checking around the 'net this morning it seems about 60/40 in favor of Aereo, according to the pundits and editorials.

It doesn't matter much what editors and pundits think; it's the Supremes that matter. And based on James' report, it looks like Aero is doomed. At least insofar as not paying re-trans fees. 


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