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Residential Loop-trough wiring and the DSWM13 w/taps

dswm13 loop-through wiring

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28 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   TreyS

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:48 AM

Hello, I'm buying a home (new construction/ two-story) and noticed it only has two coax wires on the side of the house, yet there are nine coax wall plates in the home.  It is on a slab and there doesn't appear to be a distribution hub or D-Marc in any of the closets or attic so I can only assume it has loop-through wiring.  My question to you guys, if the home does in fact have loop-through wiring, would DirecTV use a DSWM13 and taps at each wall plate to get the Signal to each receiver in each room or am I S-O-L?

 

Thanks!

 

Pic added:

 

DSWM13.jpg


Edited by TreyS, 20 February 2014 - 09:50 AM.


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#2 OFFLINE   WestDC

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:51 AM

For D* Loop Wiring is a NO go - Each location should be Single RG6 to a Central location.


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SL-5, SWM-16, (2) HR22-100, (1) H21-200, (1) H20-100, (1) HR44-200, (1) CCK

#3 OFFLINE   WestDC

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:40 AM

DSWM13 Is Not out yet for Res install - Refer to this thread -Loop Wiring Is a Current NO GO-

 

http://www.dbstalk.c...-dswm13-switch/


"Let's Have Some Fun!"
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#4 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:55 AM

 would DirecTV use a DSWM13 and taps at each wall plate to get the Signal to each receiver in each room or am I S-O-L?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

As the other have said, DSWM13 would be made for residential for at least the very long future.  It "seems" your only option with DirecTV would be to pull new runs to the attic.  I would assume that you might be able to get your hands on a DSWM13 once they become available but you must buy it yourself and support it yourself 


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#5 OFFLINE   TreyS

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:59 AM

Thanks, I did see in another thread that the DSWM13 was available to buy for around $186.  Not sure if I need to be an installer to have access to buy it though.  I have no issues supporting it myself if need be too. 

 

Also, pulling home runs from each room to the attic would only work for the second floor.  I can't get to the first floor as the construction is already completed.  :/



#6 OFFLINE   TreyS

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:06 AM

Update:  I emailed the builder and they said the coax is all home-run back to the utility closet.  Funny thing is there's no wiring panel in there, just a two-gang blank wall plate.  I'll have to open it up and take a look when I close on the home but I guess I'm good to go.  Thanks again!


Edited by TreyS, 20 February 2014 - 10:06 AM.


#7 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:06 AM

Thanks, I did see in another thread that the DSWM13 was available to buy for around $186.  Not sure if I need to be an installer to have access to buy it though.  I have no issues supporting it myself if need be too. 

 

Also, pulling home runs from each room to the attic would only work for the second floor.  I can't get to the first floor as the construction is already completed.  :/

and how many receivers/rooms on the second floor.  Are you planing to have DirecTV in all 9 rooms?


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#8 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:07 AM

Update:  I emailed the builder and they said the coax is all home-run back to the utility closet.  Funny thing is there's no wiring panel in there, just a two-gang blank wall plate.  I'll have to open it up and take a look when I close on the home but I guess I'm good to go.  Thanks again!

Once you are able to open that up, let us know what you find...


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#9 OFFLINE   TreyS

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:10 AM

Thanks, I think I will be okay, was just over thinking/ worrying that I couldn't get D*.   :goodjob:     

 

I do plan to have two receivers upstairs and three downstairs. 



#10 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:00 AM

...  I would assume that you might be able to get your hands on a DSWM13 once they become available but you must buy it yourself and support it yourself 

AIUI, even if you intend to buy and support a DSWM13 based install yourself, DIRECTV will not release the firmware needed by the receivers to operate with a DSWM13.

 

It's for receivers registered for use in commercial DRE installs only. 


DIRECTV sub. since Sep. of '95


#11 OFFLINE   TreyS

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:04 AM

Good info, thanks!



#12 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:00 PM

I see no reason a swim system
Wouldn't work fine for you anyway. It would have been simply a matter if where to connect into the existing system assuming all the splitters where behind the wall plates.

#13 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:01 PM

I see no reason a swim system
Wouldn't work fine for you anyway. It would have been simply a matter if where to connect into the existing system assuming all the splitters where behind the wall plates.

#14 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 03:18 PM

AIUI, even if you intend to buy and support a DSWM13 based install yourself, DIRECTV will not release the firmware needed by the receivers to operate with a DSWM13.

 

It's for receivers registered for use in commercial DRE installs only. 

ahhh, forgot about the FW.  Thanks !


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#15 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 04:34 PM

I wonder if the firmware would actually be a problem, as the receivers include a choice of a DSWM LNB in the satellite setup menus since the most recent firmware update around New Year's. At least with regular SWM, I am able to choose a SWM LNB on receivers and they still work even though they're connected to a SWM16. For that matter, I have tried selecting the DSWM LNB and they worked fine, but there's no way to know if it is "really" selecting that or just letting me think it did :)

 

Of course, even if (BIG "if"!!) it does work, for the cost of having to buy your own equipment (not only the DSWM13, but also the special taps required for the loop thru) and doing your own install and supporting yourself forever, you could pay an installer to fish coax through the walls for a clean and fully supported install. There's never going to be scenario where trying to use the DSWM13 loop thru install makes any sense at all in a residential environment, even if could be made to work.

 

I'd be absolutely astonished if there is any new residential construction using loop thru wiring, so I highly doubt the TS is in that situation anyway.


Edited by slice1900, 20 February 2014 - 04:35 PM.

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#16 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 05:07 PM

 

 

I'd be absolutely astonished if there is any new residential construction using loop thru wiring, so I highly doubt the TS is in that situation anyway.

I have seen (worked on) some complex apartments that had loop through wiring.  there were only 3 "loops" so two 2-ways worked fine.


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#17 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 05:14 PM

I have seen (worked on) some complex apartments that had loop through wiring.  there were only 3 "loops" so two 2-ways worked fine.

 

I guess I should have qualified that to say single family residential. I don't know what is or isn't common in multi-family residential.


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#18 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 05:38 PM

I wonder if the firmware would actually be a problem,

Without being able to select the DSWM13 in the firmware, you're "hosed".


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#19 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:15 PM

Without being able to select the DSWM13 in the firmware, you're "hosed".

 

Since you can select a SWM LNB in the firmware when you actually have a SWM multiswitch and it works perfectly, I'm thinking similarly selecting the DSWM LNB may be good enough.

 

Or maybe it isn't. There's no way to know for sure unless someone has the opportunity to try it, but the whether it works or not is irrelevant since there's no reason why anyone should want to use a DSWM13 outside of its intended market.

 

If you really had loop thru wiring in your home, it would be better to use a SWM LNB or SWM16 along with a SWM amplifier and the taps. That definitely wouldn't be supported either, but it at least it would be cheaper :)


Edited by slice1900, 20 February 2014 - 09:18 PM.

SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL, 3xSWM16; 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#20 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:46 PM

Since you can select a SWM LNB in the firmware when you actually have a SWM multiswitch and it works perfectly, I'm thinking similarly selecting the DSWM LNB may be good enough.

 

Or maybe it isn't. 

You're "not getting it".

There is the dish/LNB selection and then there is the multiswitch selection.

There isn't a maybe here, and the multiswitch selection is overriding "your" LNB selection..


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#21 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:39 PM

You're "not getting it".

There is the dish/LNB selection and then there is the multiswitch selection.

There isn't a maybe here, and the multiswitch selection is overriding "your" LNB selection..

 

Overriding it how? The only possible selection would be "SWM", which you would choose whether you have a SWM8/16 or a SWM LNB.

 

Selecting a SWM LNB when you're actually connected to a SWM multiswitch works because there is no functional difference between a legacy LNB connected to a SWM8, and a SWM LNB. The SWM LNB is simply a legacy LNB with a SWM8 integrated into it. Are you claiming otherwise? How would you expect a receiver to act differently, or be able to tell, if it was connected to a SWM8 or a SWM LNB?


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#22 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:44 PM

Overriding it how?

You can't change the type of multiswitch.

The SWiM communicates what it is during boot.

You'd need to have no connection for an option to change.

Once on the SWiM switch, the dish/LNB choice is merely what SATs at there.

The DSWMLNB has support, but unless you find an option for the DSWM13, the receiver isn't going to know what to do with it.

 

"I guess" the only way you'll know is to get a DSWM13 and try without the DRE firmware.

 

It's not like I haven't talked to the STB folks about this.


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#23 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 03:41 AM

You can't change the type of multiswitch.

The SWiM communicates what it is during boot.

You'd need to have no connection for an option to change.

Once on the SWiM switch, the dish/LNB choice is merely what SATs at there.

The DSWMLNB has support, but unless you find an option for the DSWM13, the receiver isn't going to know what to do with it.

 

"I guess" the only way you'll know is to get a DSWM13 and try without the DRE firmware.

 

It's not like I haven't talked to the STB folks about this.

 

 

The receiver knows how to talk to a DSWM switch - it must if it is able to talk to the one inside a DSWM LNB. What you're saying is that because there's not a third switch type option, "DSWM", there's no way to tell the receiver it is connected to an external DSWM switch, i.e. the DSWM13. I suggested if you configure the receiver for a DSWM LNB it may not know/care about the difference - based on the fact that the difference between a SWM LNB and external SWM switch does not matter to the receiver.

 

I think what it comes down to is this: Is the DSWM different enough that it needs a third switch type choice, or is it still "SWM"? SWM 2.0, if you will. As you know, I configured a receiver for a DSWM LNB and it worked just fine connected to a SWM16. The info screen said it was a Slimline-3DS, so the setting took. Does that mean the protocol is backward compatible? Perhaps. Or maybe when the receiver starts up and inquires about what it is connected to it finds it is connected to a regular SWM and treats it as such. There's no way to know from that experiment, all I know for sure is that it doesn't completely fail as it does if you configure for SWM when connected to a legacy multiswitch or vice versa.

 

Now, if you've talked to the STB folks and what they've told you makes you certain that configuring a receiver for a DSWM LNB isn't good enough for it to talk to an external DSWM switch, despite that being good enough in the same situation for a SWM LNB, then obviously I accept that - those guys would know. Not that I wouldn't still be curious to know why - when something goes against your expectations you always learn much more from the "why" than when something matches your expectations.

 

I'd love to be able to try the experiment, but unless I win the lottery I'm not going to spend $185 for a toy to experiment on for 10 minutes :)


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#24 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 04:06 AM

 As you know, I configured a receiver for a DSWM LNB and it worked just fine connected to a SWM16. The info screen said it was a Slimline-3DS, so the setting took.

This should show you how you can't override the multiswitch, "and" how meaningless the LNB setting is, once on a SWiM multiswitch.

Since the channel spacing is different between the two, it wouldn't have "worked just fine" being connected to the wrong device, "if the settings took".

 

Not to "pee on you" but all I see is you don't know what you're looking at or how to test your theories.


A.K.A VOS

#25 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 05:11 AM

Here is something that you can do:

Start with a SWiM output fully loaded.

Change all receivers/tuners to the DSWMLNB setting.

If the receivers have actually changed, you will lose one or two tuners.

Channel 1 is the same for "all" @ 974 MHz.

Channel 9 is 1790 MHz, while channel 14 [DSWM] is 1637.39 MHz


A.K.A VOS





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