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Whole Home and Internet Random dropouts.


Best Answer Rigger01 , 08 March 2014 - 01:19 PM

hat run to

You came for one problem and it looks like it's fixed.

While looking at your diagram, I see problems with the long runs.

I would add the amps, and "wait and see" what happens with the 330' guy "before" I change that run to RG11.

If the 330' run isn't going to be used, no point changing it to RG11.

I only count 3 runs, out of all of them, that without amps I'm comfortable with.

 

BTW the amp on the left is backwards.

 

Amps ordered.  Everything you have told me so far has helped 100%.  AMP on the left is now fixed.  I will let you know when the amps are installed.

 

i358r8.jpg

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#26 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:53 PM

I would gladly do one.  Is there any tool to help with this? or Am i on my own?

 

If you have a Google Account, you can use Google Drive (Docs) and create a drawing.

 

Once you sign in click here or go to https://docs.google.com click 'Create' > 'Drawing'

 

once you finish go to File > Download as > JPEG or PNG image and attach it to a post here.


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#27 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:20 PM

Here it is. This is my first attempt at this. Please be gentle.  This is my current setup before any of the changes that old school suggested.  I am going to start one that reflects his suggestions even though I am not entirely sure I understand all of it. (4 40' runs from Dish to SWM)

 

30ag8d2.jpg

Attached Thumbnails

  • DTV_CURRENT_3_1_14.jpg

Edited by Rigger01, 01 March 2014 - 01:23 PM.


#28 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:41 PM

Silly question, but you do have the unused ports terminated properly on the splitters yes? Also, how did you set up your power supply for your swim16? I would connect it to the power only port on the swim16 myself.

And trust me,vos knows.. ;). Take your time figuring it out,he will lead you to better signals.

#29 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:52 PM

Silly question, but you do have the unused ports terminated properly on the splitters yes? Also, how did you set up your power supply for your swim16? I would connect it to the power only port on the swim16 myself.

And trust me,vos knows.. ;). Take your time figuring it out,he will lead you to better signals.

 

None of the empty ports on the 8way's are "open".  They have the screw on covers that come with it.  Do I need something different? The power is plugged directly in to the Grey SWM 16 Power port. I just did a sketch. I think I have it. Will post it soonish.



#30 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:40 PM

OK, you've got some work here.

You will have reduced networking when close to -45, so "Here's what I would do":

 

1) move the H25 245'-0", H21 330'-0", HR21 242'-0", and HR22 140'-0" or HR-21 138'-0" to a 4-way splitter. This will reduce the loss by 3 dB and keep the longest runs on the same splitter so the loss between them is the least.

 

2) move the HR22 140'-0" or HR-21 138'-0", H24 197'-0", H23 180'-0", H24 150'-0", H25 179'-0", H23 178'-0", and H25 175'-0" to the same 8-way splitter. The shorter lengths will help with the loss of the 8-way.

 

3) Connect the broadband DECA with a 2-way splitter to the line for the HR22 or 21 on the 4-way as this is the shortest run and the PI to the -16 power port.

 

4) get two of these: http://www.solidsign...sing-(std-9501)

Add them between the splitters and the SWiM-16 outputs and connect the OTA ports to each other. This will bridge the DECA between the two outputs instead of using the internal bridge of the -16 and decrease the loss by about 5 dB.

 

This should bring the losses down to less than 40 and get the network within specs.

 

After these changes, I'd check the LEDs and both test screens. The levels should be under -40 and the mesh "should be" around 240+.

If there still is a problem with the LEDs, the mesh screen should also show it with low numbers.

 

Before going into any further steps, please post the results of the two screens.

 

Ok.  I think this is what veryoldschool suggested.  Please let me know what I need to change if anything.

 

34ir96v.jpg


Edited by Rigger01, 01 March 2014 - 03:26 PM.


#31 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:27 PM

I would make the following changes.  move the H24 197 to the 4 way so that way you have the longest runs in a smaller splitter (less loss.  move the HR22 140 to the 8 way.  since the DECA BB is "home run" I would leave it on the 8 way to avoid using another splitter. remove the 2 way

 

Whole-Home-and-Internet-Random-dropouts.Click for large view - Uploaded with Skitch


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#32 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:48 PM

Ok. That makes sense.  Hopefully veryoldschool will put in his 2 cents.  The parts are ordered and should be here by Wednesday.  We are expecting a big snow storm on Monday now so everything will get delayed I am sure.



#33 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 02:23 PM

Peds picked up on something I thought about later.

There will be a free port on the 8-way splitter that the DECA can use.

Do Not change a HR for a H on the 8-way because you already will have 8 tuners.

While the coax run is longer, the tuner limit means it has to be on the 8-way.

 

The diplexers were connected backwards and "the common" port has to go to the splitter.

 

I just got back from the hospital, so this is a quick and dirty edit, but should get the right info across [I hope]:

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • DECA-16.PNG

A.K.A VOS

#34 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 02:32 PM

 

Do Not change a HR for a H on the 8-way because you already will have 8 tuners.

 

uhhh, missed that, sorry


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They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


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#35 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:20 PM

uhhh, missed that, sorry

You caught the DECA and "I know' you were looking at the cable loss, "but" even in my condition, I didn't think you could catch me twice. :lol:

I had a week of poor health and now don't have a gallbladder, but feel better.


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#36 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:26 PM



Since I don't see it mentioned, do your 8 way splitters have terminators on all unused ports?  If not add them.

 

Also the H23 without a DECA attached to it should have a bandstop filter (I doubt this is causing your issue, but you should fix it).

 

 



Peds picked up on something I thought about later.

There will be a free port on the 8-way splitter that the DECA can use.

Do Not change a HR for a H on the 8-way because you already will have 8 tuners.

While the coax run is longer, the tuner limit means it has to be on the 8-way.

 

The diplexers were connected backwards and "the common" port has to go to the splitter.

 

I just got back from the hospital, so this is a quick and dirty edit, but should get the right info across [I hope]:

 

2nq6uco.jpg

 

OK.  I added the bandstop filter that Beerstalker suggested and I made the changes that oldschool stated.  Let me know if this is now set in stone.



#37 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:27 PM

You caught the DECA and "I know' you were looking at the cable loss, "but" even in my condition, I didn't think you could catch me twice. :lol:

I had a week of poor health and now don't have a gallbladder, but feel better.

 

Sorry to hear about that. Feel better and take it easy.



#38 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:41 PM

Sorry to hear about that. Feel better and take it easy.

After a rough week, I do and have a full bottle of pain pills so "I'm set" !rolling

 

Your latest drawing looks good.

When you get the diplexers, check the markings for which port is which. They make two models, and "more than likely" what you'll get will be reversed from the image.

It's a minor change and "only means" to look before you connect. :lol:


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#39 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:03 PM

2vafpdi.jpg

Hopefully with these changes the highest will be 40-42 [or less].


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#40 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:07 PM

 

I had a week of poor health and now don't have a gallbladder, but feel better.

who needs one of those.... !rolling

 

Wishing you a speedy recovery 


Here’s to the crazy ones.
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The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


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#41 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:41 PM

who needs one of those.... !rolling

Surprising what one will give up to get some good pain pills. !rolling


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#42 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 01:10 PM

All the parts arrived today. So the question is...

 

 

155jjnp.jpg

 

Which port connects to itself? The 806 MHz or the 950?



#43 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 01:22 PM

The port labeled TV goes to the splitter that connects to the CCK .  Sat port goes to Swim output and in-out goes to Swim Splitter.

 

In my installation, I don't have a CCK (bridged through HR34) so the output of that splitter is terminated.



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#44 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 01:40 PM

The port labeled TV goes to the splitter that connects to the CCK .  Sat port goes to Swim output and in-out goes to Swim Splitter.

 

In my installation, I don't have a CCK (bridged through HR34) so the output of that splitter is terminated.

 

So if you all give the final approval, I will add all this tomorrow.

 

5otd8w.jpg

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  • 2014-03-05 14.03.41.jpg


#45 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 02:16 PM

the picture has them pointed correctly, BUT!!!!!!!! TV to TV is the DECA bridging you need [which I think you got].


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#46 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 02:22 PM

the picture has them pointed correctly, BUT!!!!!!!! TV to TV is the DECA bridging you need [which I think you got].

 

TV port is bridged to TV port. I will get this all installed hopefully tomorrow at the latest Friday.  As soon as I get it done. I will post the new readings.

:grin:



#47 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 04:27 PM

So if you all give the final approval, I will add all this tomorrow.

 

5otd8w.jpg

 

 

TV port is bridged to TV port. I will get this all installed hopefully tomorrow at the latest Friday.  As soon as I get it done. I will post the new readings.

:grin:

 

11h6uwx.jpg

 

Node # 8 BD0F -44 is the 330' Run

Node # 6718 -40 is the 245' Run

 

f1e9oy.jpg

 

in5178.jpg

 

Thank you to everyone that helped. I really don't know what to say other than you are all Awesome.  Big shout out to veryoldschool and Peds48. 

:goodjob:          :joy:            :biggthump          

I finally figured out how to resize the .jpg's  ha!



#48 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 04:45 PM

You have reached the limit and "just squeaked by".

Node 9 doesn't bother me, while node 8 "I wouldn't add an inch".

The only thing that could be done for node 8 would be to change the coax from RG6 to RG11, which would reduce the 44 down to about 38.


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A.K.A VOS

#49 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 04:55 PM

You have reached the limit and "just squeaked by".

Node 9 doesn't bother me, while node 8 "I wouldn't add an inch".

The only thing that could be done for node 8 would be to change the coax from RG6 to RG11, which would reduce the 44 down to about 38.

 

This setup is backstage at a Theater in NYC.  The guy that had the 330' run just got fired.  If his replacement does not want to keep it in his office, the next guy on the waiting list will be probably a 200' run maybe more like 250'.  I will use RG11 for that run.  Should I just use RG11 from now on?  Even the short runs? 

 

veryoldschool, Can I ask what your background is?  How is it that you are the Yoda of this forum? 


Edited by Rigger01, 07 March 2014 - 04:57 PM.


#50 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 05:45 PM

This setup is backstage at a Theater in NYC.  The guy that had the 330' run just got fired.  If his replacement does not want to keep it in his office, the next guy on the waiting list will be probably a 200' run maybe more like 250'.  I will use RG11 for that run.  Should I just use RG11 from now on?  Even the short runs? 

 

veryoldschool, Can I ask what your background is?  How is it that you are the Yoda of this forum? 

I was wondering what & where this system was, as 330' runs aren't "normal".

This setup isn't something most installers would know how to deal with either.

RG11 is expensive, so I'd only use it where it was needed on very long runs. You can get about "half again" the distance over RG6 for the same loss.

I have some concerns with the lengths for the SWiM signals.

150' with an 8-way splitter is about the max for "safe" levels, and 200' with a 4-way.

Using RG11 would change this to 225' & 300'.

Another option is to add and amp between the diplexer and the SWiM output.

 

As to my background, let's just say I've been doing this for a very, very long time, and spent a lot of it on programs I can't talk about.


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