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Whole Home and Internet Random dropouts.


Best Answer Rigger01 , 08 March 2014 - 01:19 PM

hat run to

You came for one problem and it looks like it's fixed.

While looking at your diagram, I see problems with the long runs.

I would add the amps, and "wait and see" what happens with the 330' guy "before" I change that run to RG11.

If the 330' run isn't going to be used, no point changing it to RG11.

I only count 3 runs, out of all of them, that without amps I'm comfortable with.

 

BTW the amp on the left is backwards.

 

Amps ordered.  Everything you have told me so far has helped 100%.  AMP on the left is now fixed.  I will let you know when the amps are installed.

 

i358r8.jpg

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#61 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 02:37 PM

I don't know who installed this system, "but" it was way out of design spec.

 

The diplexer usage comes from my own design modification for another application, which has less loss than using the crossover of the SWiM-16.

With them in use, the amps can be used where they're now placed.

 

Without using the diplexers, adding amps would help the SWiM signals to the receivers but hurt the DECA signals.

Wiring everything with RG11 would be the only option.

 

Your latest drawing has [except for the 330' run] all the runs "within spec", which is to say there is some reserve for everything to work in the "worst case", which is the way you want to build a system.

 

Upgrading the 330' run to RG11 would complete this "should the need arise".

 

This would get "the VOS seal of approval" :lol:

 

 


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#62 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 02:54 PM

I don't know who installed this system, "but" it was way out of design spec.

 

The diplexer usage comes from my own design modification for another application, which has less loss than using the crossover of the SWiM-16.

With them in use, the amps can be used where they're now placed.

 

Without using the diplexers, adding amps would help the SWiM signals to the receivers but hurt the DECA signals.

Wiring everything with RG11 would be the only option.

 

Your latest drawing has [except for the 330' run] all the runs "within spec", which is to say there is some reserve for everything to work in the "worst case", which is the way you want to build a system.

 

Upgrading the 330' run to RG11 would complete this "should the need arise".

 

This would get "the VOS seal of approval" :lol:

 

 

 

Like I said earlier. I inherited this.  Originally it was just designed for a couple users.  The Theater now has a show that will be here for years so people that will be here want access to DTV.  Once the system grew to what it is now and we started having issues, I called DirectTV.  Can I say that every tech they sent out here was not how can I say, a Rockstar.  I finally decided to handle it myself.  Next time I will start here and get a proper design.  The 330' run is real horrible run. If that one goes away and I install that other run (250') I will use RG11.  But to redo the 330' with RG11 is going to be a very last resort.  I am going to add the AMPs.

 

I have learned so much since the start of this thread and I thank you and everyone else that helped.  The biggest lesson learned is to start here and get a plan the next time I have to do an install in another Theater. 



#63 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:00 PM

Like I said earlier. I inherited this.  

Originally it was just designed for a couple users. 

Once the system grew to what it is now and we started having issues, I called DirectTV.  

Can I say that every tech they sent out here was not how can I say, a Rockstar.

This system grew well beyond their training, so I really can't blame any of them.

It needed re-engineering.


A.K.A VOS

#64 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:12 PM

"I'd say" if the run is 250', you can use RG6, and if it's longer then go with RG11.

You already have 242' & 245' working, and "the problem is" adding another 100'.


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#65 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 03:59 PM

After doing some number crunching, using RG11 and the NAS diplexers for the DECA crossover, the max coax runs look to be:

 

8-way = 275',

4-way = 375',

2-way = 475'

 

No amp would be needed.


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#66 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 04:50 PM

Since I already purchased the AMP's.  Would it hurt the system to put them in? or should I just return them for store credit?



#67 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 05:08 PM

Since I already purchased the AMP's.  Would it hurt the system to put them in? or should I just return them for store credit?

Once you see the cost of RG11, you'll see the amps are a better choice for you.

Since the amps don't boost the DECA signal, RG11 is needed for runs like the 330'.


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#68 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 05:18 PM

After doing some number crunching, using RG11 and the NAS diplexers for the DECA crossover, the max coax runs look to be:

 

8-way = 275',

4-way = 375',

2-way = 475'

 

No amp would be needed.

So how far can you push the limit?

 

DECA is the limiting factor, so to exceed these lengths, you have to "steal" from the other side of the SWiM-16.

 

You can add an amp on one side and extend the max distance by 200', BUT you have to reduce the max distance on the other side of the SWiM by 200'.

 

IE: using two 8-ways, one side could be 475' with an amp, and the other side MUST BE 25' max.


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#69 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 07:19 PM

 

 

IE: using two 8-ways, one side could be 475' with an amp, and the other side MUST BE 25' max.

Now you opened "pandora's box" :rotfl:

 

why you would use two 8 ways since SWM limits this to 8 tuners  one one side? and wouldn't 2 ways ways be too much loss for DECA port to port?


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#70 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:24 PM

Now you opened "pandora's box" :rotfl:

 

why you would use two 8 ways since SWM limits this to 8 tuners  one one side? and wouldn't 2 ways ways be too much loss for DECA port to port?

The two 8-ways were used to show the extreme of one side being only 25', and also was the starting point of this thread.

 

A 2-way with 675' of RG11 on each output is right at the limit, so if you need 675' on one, the other should be 625' for the node loss to be -43.

 

The 4-way and 8-way can have more than one output at the max, so either 575' or 475'


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#71 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:45 PM

The two 8-ways were used to show the extreme of one side being only 25', and also was the starting point of this thread.

 

 

After I took a break and re-read what you said, it now makes sense.  I though you meant stacking two ways in one side, compared to two 8 ways, one on each side since the total loss for the DECA includes both runs of the nodes communicating.  


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

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They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


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#72 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:02 PM

After I took a break and re-read what you said, it now makes sense.  I though you meant stacking two ways in one side, compared to two 8 ways, one on each side since the total loss for the DECA includes both runs of the nodes communicating.  

The max lengths are "end to end", but this is with the splitters located at the SWiM-16.

 

The 2way could have 675' on both outputs if the splitter was located closer to the receivers, thus lowering the node to node loss of the 2way, while still having the same end to end loss..


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#73 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:23 PM

Hopefully the Amp's will be here tomorrow morning.  Finger's Crossed.



#74 OFFLINE   Rigger01

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:02 PM

They arrived today.  I am going to install them on Tuesday. Will I see any difference in picture?  Is there a test I should run after they are installed?



#75 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:25 PM

They arrived today.  I am going to install them on Tuesday. Will I see any difference in picture?  Is there a test I should run after they are installed?

NO, there would not be any difference picture quality., but you might see more reliability when is comes to rain fade, specially for the longest run


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Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#76 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:15 PM

They arrived today.  I am going to install them on Tuesday. Will I see any difference in picture?  Is there a test I should run after they are installed?

As Peds48 posted, this is more like "insurance".

You might check the transponders on all the SATs before and after, on the longest run.

You might see a change, "but then again" you might not.


A.K.A VOS




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