Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

The Walt Disney Company and DISH Network Sign Groundbreaking Long-Term, Wide-Ranging Agreement


  • Please log in to reply
198 replies to this topic

#161 OFFLINE   david_jr

david_jr

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 424 posts
Joined: Dec 10, 2006

Posted 27 March 2014 - 07:52 AM

I suspect most of the "kids" using broadband to satisfy their content needs have someone else paying the bill for them.  I have 3 in my house.  I pay the Dish bill, the internet bill and the cell phone bill.  I wonder how many of these kids will have such items when they have to pay the bill.  Raise the cost of the content when they catch up to cord cutting and then we'll really see.



...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#162 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Topic Starter
  • Moderators
  • 19,855 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 27 March 2014 - 02:22 PM

Let me try an analogy... everybody loves when I try analogies! :)

 

You can buy stuff from a department store, or a thrift store...  The thrift store only gets remaining unsold product from department stores.

 

So... you say, I'm switching to thrift store only because it is much cheaper.  Then you say "everybody switch to the thrift store and save money"...  so then everybody switches to the thrift store.

 

What happens?

 

The thrift store runs out of product because the department store goes out of business and the products are no longer made because they no longer have primary outlets and the thrift stores won't pay them as much...

 

OR

 

The thrift store sees the opportunity and offers to pay more to keep the product coming, but that means the thrift store has to raise their prices...  and we are right back where we started.

 

Netflix, Hulu, Roku, Amazon, whatever you like because it is cheap... is only cheap because it is not the primary revenue stream for the content you are watching.  IF the primary revenue stream is cut or severely reduced by people leaving cable/satellite in droves as some "wish" would happen...  then the content will either go away OR Netflix and others will have to start charging more.

 

It's fair to price-shop and to want the best deal... but don't fall prey to the thought that something WAY cheaper will always be way cheaper... and hope the "big guy" goes out of business...  sometimes you get what you ask for and realize it isn't what you wanted.


-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#163 OFFLINE   sregener

sregener

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 613 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2012

Posted 28 March 2014 - 03:59 AM

So... you say, I'm switching to thrift store only because it is much cheaper.  Then you say "everybody switch to the thrift store and save money"...  so then everybody switches to the thrift store.

 

Netflix, Hulu, Roku, Amazon, whatever you like because it is cheap... is only cheap because it is not the primary revenue stream for the content you are watching.  IF the primary revenue stream is cut or severely reduced by people leaving cable/satellite in droves as some "wish" would happen...  then the content will either go away OR Netflix and others will have to start charging more.

 

It's fair to price-shop and to want the best deal... but don't fall prey to the thought that something WAY cheaper will always be way cheaper... and hope the "big guy" goes out of business...  sometimes you get what you ask for and realize it isn't what you wanted.

I think a better analogy would be to look at mass-market paperbacks.  They're about $7 now.  Hardcovers, even discounted heavily by Amazon, are typically $15-25 for bestsellers.  What if everybody switched to paperbacks?  Obviously, the price would rise.  But publishers continue to make and sell hardcovers in large numbers (and we can include eBooks at hardcover prices in this equation.)  This is not a developing market, but a mature one, and it has been demonstrated that it works.

 

So why in the world would a publisher even make mass-market paperbacks?  The answer is simple: it is a way to capture another revenue stream after the primary one has dried up.  It's not as much money for the publisher, but the costs are low and any return is better than no return.

 

I don't think everyone will switch to streaming services.  It's not for everyone, just as mass-market paperbacks aren't.  Some people are always going to want the convenience and "first-look" availability of pay TV service.  What we might see is a smaller catalog of free options, or products that take longer to appear on streaming services.

 

I'm still waiting to see what Dish charges for their ESPN streaming service.



#164 OFFLINE   pfred

pfred

    Mentor

  • Registered
  • 41 posts
Joined: Feb 08, 2009

Posted 28 March 2014 - 09:45 AM

Lets make another analogy: The music industry.
I don't have exact numbers, but look at the inflation-adjusted amount spent last year on music versus pre-Napster, and I guarantee a huge difference.



#165 ONLINE   inkahauts

inkahauts

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 16,193 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 28 March 2014 - 12:02 PM

Lets make another analogy: The music industry.
I don't have exact numbers, but look at the inflation-adjusted amount spent last year on music versus pre-Napster, and I guarantee a huge difference.


You just cannot ever compare the music industry to the tv and film industry. It doesn't work for so many reasons.

#166 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Topic Starter
  • Moderators
  • 19,855 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 28 March 2014 - 08:29 PM

I don't think everyone will switch to streaming services.  It's not for everyone, just as mass-market paperbacks aren't.  Some people are always going to want the convenience and "first-look" availability of pay TV service.  What we might see is a smaller catalog of free options, or products that take longer to appear on streaming services.


That's the unstated part of my thoughts.  I don't believe we will reach that tipping point.  The main point of my thoughts, though, was for those who think we should want to reach that tipping point.

 

For many reasons, I believe we will not go there.... but I caution those who think and hope that we will.


-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#167 OFFLINE   phrelin

phrelin

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 13,548 posts
  • LocationNorthern California Redwoods
Joined: Jan 18, 2007

Posted 29 March 2014 - 01:04 AM

All information indicates that the 14-24 age group is watching "TV" on tablets and computers. Of course, they're not watching traditional TVs but what's important is that they are watching streaming video not on a schedule.

Whrn they get older and buy a TV like a Samsung 46-Inch 1080p Smart LED HDTV to watch TV "as a family" they will be watching streaming through Apps or a browser. Perhaps the "on demand" options of the $100+ cable/satellite subscription might appeal, but they are not sufficiently going to be watching so regularly and reliably on a live+same day or even 3 day schedule that the broadcast networks can sell their viewing eyes to advertisers.

Over the past decade the over 49 viewers have completely gained control of the live+same day ratings because they are the only reliable eyes.

That next generation is simply not interested in CBS telling them that to watch "The Good Wife" they have to turn on the TV at 9 pm on Sunday, oh and then if football ran over they have to sit there up to an hour waiting for it to come on. That's the revolution evolution that's going to change TV.

In retrospect, I'm not even sure why my generation let the purveyors of the "vast wasteland" take control of our lives and our families. I just know we did and it seemed OK at the time. But watching TV as a family was never a human interactive experience comparable to a weekend family outing or even nightly family dinner.

What's happening is the direction of "on demand" is shifting from the media corporation successfully getting us all simultaneously line up in front of our TV's like deer blinded in the headlights.

No, you can't compare the music industry - say one track - to an industry in which it costs $1 million to create an episode of a series we'd like to watch. The amature cat videos on YouTube aren't going to replace TV. But the economic model of selling the episode directly to individual viewers who tolerate some targeted ads is viable instead of selling to a TV network which then sells it to a broadcast station or a cable or satellite system to sell it to you.

This won't happen tomorrow or even in my lifetime. But it will happen before those 14-24 year old folks reach 34-44.

Edited by phrelin, 29 March 2014 - 01:07 AM.

"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
My AV Setup
My Slingbox Pro HD Experience
My Blog: The Redwood Guardian


#168 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 40,244 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 29 March 2014 - 11:41 AM

All information indicates that the 14-24 age group is watching "TV" on tablets and computers. Of course, they're not watching traditional TVs but what's important is that they are watching streaming video not on a schedule.


"All information"? Not one contrary report? I agree that the 14-24 age group streams ... but I believe the trend is overstated. You are making it sound like no one in that age group ever watches TV on a TV.


Whrn they get older and buy a TV like a Samsung 46-Inch 1080p Smart LED HDTV to watch TV "as a family" they will be watching streaming through Apps or a browser.


That is a prediction. Perhaps one of their apps will be a software Joey streaming from their DISH satellite subscription. Or if they have affordable high speed Internet their DISH streaming subscription.

Getting the data to the viewer will always be the challenge. Sending the same data to millions of people works best through broadcasting. Even if the satellite signal is received and stored until viewed a few hours later or in a binge viewing session at the end of the season, satellite is an efficient way of getting a lot of data to millions of people.

Providing individual server connections to content, especially multiple connections the same endpoint (different viewing surfaces within a home) is inefficient.
Welcome to DBS Talk - Let's talk about DBS! (The Digital Bit Stream)
DISH Network vs DirecTV: HD Channel List - DISH Network HD Capacity, HD Conversion and more.
DISH Network complete channel lists and lists by satellite location are in The Uplink Activity Center.
Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself. Content is not controlled by DISH Network, DirecTV or any other company.

#169 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Topic Starter
  • Moderators
  • 19,855 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 29 March 2014 - 01:46 PM

People ultimately go where the content is if they want to watch it.  I prefer HD, and if good HD is on, I ignore my SD channels... but if a program comes on an SD channel and that's my only option to watch, then I will...  So there are unique things on Amazon, Crackle, Netflix, YouTube, and so forth...  and people will find and watch that content... and maybe while there will watch other things out of convenience.

 

But as James says...  the most efficient method is satellite or cable delivery (OTA too but not nearly as much choice)...  I just don't see the streaming "taking over" as some keep wanting to happen or predicting.


-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#170 OFFLINE   phrelin

phrelin

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 13,548 posts
  • LocationNorthern California Redwoods
Joined: Jan 18, 2007

Posted 29 March 2014 - 02:09 PM

"All information"? Not one contrary report? I agree that the 14-24 age group streams ... but I believe the trend is overstated. You are making it sound like no one in that age group ever watches TV on a TV.



That is a prediction. Perhaps one of their apps will be a software Joey streaming from their DISH satellite subscription. Or if they have affordable high speed Internet their DISH streaming subscription.

Getting the data to the viewer will always be the challenge. Sending the same data to millions of people works best through broadcasting. Even if the satellite signal is received and stored until viewed a few hours later or in a binge viewing session at the end of the season, satellite is an efficient way of getting a lot of data to millions of people.

Providing individual server connections to content, especially multiple connections the same endpoint (different viewing surfaces within a home) is inefficient.

 

OK. "All information" may be a bit overstated but more and more polls and surveys indicated it is true. I have two granddaughters 18 and 11. The 18-year-old when she was young did watch very carefully screened DVD's with her mother. And she probably does watch a few things right now. But streaming video on her computer, iPad and phone is a big part of her viewing. The 11 year old rarely watches TV but spends a lot of time on streaming video.

 

In terms of efficiency in technology, I wrote software for a computer that had 64k of RAM. Programmers had to be extremely efficient. In a 4 GB environment, not so much and there's a lot of sloppy programming going on because efficiency isn't important any more.

 

Based upon source to viewer, analog broadcast TV was the most efficient way to get the video stream out until satellite. Today satellite is most efficient. And yet, cable is still the industry's signal source for the majority of homes.. And most of those cable TV homes can use the same cable as their ISP. And many of us satellite TV customers use cable as our ISP - I use Comcast. And Comcast and the others continue to upgrade their systems.

 

And Netflix and Amazon have servers in Comcast's buildings because in the end Comcast knows ... let's all sing "As Time Goes By" ... viewing habits are going to change.

 

Only one of my three 50+ "kids" regularly maintains cable/satellite TV service. I really don't see their kids, my grandkids, buying the "package of channels" over buying the "package of shows." Who they will buy from in 2030 remains to be seen.


"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
My AV Setup
My Slingbox Pro HD Experience
My Blog: The Redwood Guardian


#171 OFFLINE   Wilf

Wilf

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 247 posts
Joined: Oct 15, 2008

Posted 30 March 2014 - 09:50 AM

Once you start watching streaming TV, when it is without commercial breaks, it is very difficult to go back to watching regular TV chopped up in bit and pieces. Netflix has been sensitive to this, when they released the entire seasons of "House of Cards" for binge watchers (of which I am one). In some ways, I am reminded of TV in the fifties, when commercials were far fewer (and more clever).



#172 OFFLINE   david_jr

david_jr

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 424 posts
Joined: Dec 10, 2006

Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:30 AM

But you can't possibly think that streaming TV with no commercial breaks can stay in place when streaming delivery of content surpasses Satellite and Cable delivered content, can you?



#173 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 40,244 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 31 March 2014 - 03:54 PM

But you can't possibly think that streaming TV with no commercial breaks can stay in place when streaming delivery of content surpasses Satellite and Cable delivered content, can you?


It depends on the price. People pay more for the commercial free (except product placement) versions of shows.
Welcome to DBS Talk - Let's talk about DBS! (The Digital Bit Stream)
DISH Network vs DirecTV: HD Channel List - DISH Network HD Capacity, HD Conversion and more.
DISH Network complete channel lists and lists by satellite location are in The Uplink Activity Center.
Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself. Content is not controlled by DISH Network, DirecTV or any other company.

#174 OFFLINE   sregener

sregener

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 613 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2012

Posted 31 March 2014 - 07:01 PM

But you can't possibly think that streaming TV with no commercial breaks can stay in place when streaming delivery of content surpasses Satellite and Cable delivered content, can you?

 

When was the last time you went to the movie theater and halfway through your feature, they broke to commercial?

 

It's simply a matter of what you're willing to pay to not put up with commercials.  And if enough people will pay to avoid them, it becomes cost-effective to charge $2.99/episode for commercial-free viewing.


  • Orion9 likes this

#175 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Topic Starter
  • Moderators
  • 19,855 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 31 March 2014 - 07:30 PM

When was the last time you went to the movie theater and halfway through your feature, they broke to commercial?

 

It's simply a matter of what you're willing to pay to not put up with commercials.  And if enough people will pay to avoid them, it becomes cost-effective to charge $2.99/episode for commercial-free viewing.

 

But that's not usually the conversation.

 

People complain when their cable/satellite bill goes up and say they are going to "cut the cord" to save money...  The point to me is that IF enough people actually did that, then the prices would go up on those streaming services and they would be right back where they want.

 

So... complaining about high prices is good... but trying/hoping to drive one market out of the business in favor of another perceived cheaper one is likely to have ramifications.

 

Consider what we talk about in terms of picking channels vs picking tiers/packages... and people complain they only want to pay for what they watch... but then those before us set the trend by wanting discounted tiers instead of individual channels.

 

One day, if streaming is chosen because it is "cheaper" than satellite... IF satellite is driven out of business, then streaming will be the only game in town and we'll be back to higher prices on everything again and people will be dumbfounded as to how it happened and will forget that they actively chose that path.


-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#176 OFFLINE   Wilf

Wilf

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 247 posts
Joined: Oct 15, 2008

Posted 01 April 2014 - 06:31 AM

For me, watching "TV" without commercials and and paying more, is not an issue - I am fine with that. I feel fortunate in that (pseudo) sports and the newest, hottest movie are not items I have to watch. However, for the industry, the real issues are not old farts like me, it is the younger folks that mainly watch on their iPads and smartphones, and if they can't buy it in a convenient way - without bundles - they know how to easily "get it" without paying.


Edited by Wilf, 01 April 2014 - 06:32 AM.


#177 OFFLINE   sregener

sregener

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 613 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2012

Posted 01 April 2014 - 06:40 AM

People complain when their cable/satellite bill goes up and say they are going to "cut the cord" to save money...  The point to me is that IF enough people actually did that, then the prices would go up on those streaming services and they would be right back where they want.

 

Consider what we talk about in terms of picking channels vs picking tiers/packages... and people complain they only want to pay for what they watch... but then those before us set the trend by wanting discounted tiers instead of individual channels.

 

One day, if streaming is chosen because it is "cheaper" than satellite... IF satellite is driven out of business, then streaming will be the only game in town and we'll be back to higher prices on everything again and people will be dumbfounded as to how it happened and will forget that they actively chose that path.

I understand what you're saying.  But imagine if 75% of those who "cut the cord" put up an antenna and get at least the big 4 networks.  We could see a resurgence in free TV.  Right now, I don't need a streaming service to be content with my viewing options.  My DVR is filling up with shows I haven't found time to get around to yet, and it's OTA-only.  I'm getting most of my movies from the library, and a rare few from RedBox.

 

For people who are somewhat "content neutral", pay TV rarely makes sense.  If you have a "must-have" show or two, streaming rounds out the package.

 

What could you do with an extra $800-1200/year, after taxes?



#178 OFFLINE   Orion9

Orion9

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 241 posts
Joined: Jan 31, 2011

Posted 01 April 2014 - 09:59 AM

And if enough people will pay to avoid them, it becomes cost-effective to charge $2.99/episode for commercial-free viewing.


Yikes! It better be much less than that! Watching just one show a day that way would cost ~ $90/month or about twice what we pay Dish. And that's assuming the current $14.99/month internet plan is good enough for streaming. (And I don't think it is - but the next step in Internet prices around here seems to be around $40 to $50.)

#179 OFFLINE   Orion9

Orion9

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 241 posts
Joined: Jan 31, 2011

Posted 01 April 2014 - 10:30 AM

By the way, our local library is 5 miles away and would take a special trip. According to this site:

http://commutesoluti...ernal/calc.html

Making 1 trip a week to the library would add up to over $600/year in direct and indirect driving costs. (I zeroed out several of their costs and reduced others - their default estimate was higher.)

So, I'm all for libraries but using them routinely is not necessarily a big money saver (let alone a time saver) for many people. They probably work well if you're in a city and can walk to them.

There are some closer Redboxes and cost of the Blu-Ray rental might be offset by the reduced distance. I've never actually tried a Redbox because there's always people already using it and I never want to stand in line. I might give it whirl someday.


#180 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Topic Starter
  • Moderators
  • 19,855 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 01 April 2014 - 02:39 PM

Meanwhile... this happened:

 

ESPN and Disney/ABC Television Group Launch WATCH Authenticated Products to DISH Customers

 

Live Linear Channel Streams and On Demand Content from WATCH ABC, WATCH ABC Family, WATCH Disney Channel, WATCH Disney XD and WatchESPN Now Available to DISH Video Subscribers at Home and On-the-Go via Multiple Devices

 

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. & BURBANK, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- In the weeks immediately following the announcement of their groundbreaking, multi-year distribution deal, DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ:DISH) and The Walt Disney Company (NYSE:DIS) today announced the availability of WATCH ABC, WATCH ABC Family, WATCH Disney Channel, WATCH Disney XD and WatchESPN, enabling DISH's 14 million video subscribers to access live and on-demand news, entertainment and sports programming on computers, smartphones, tablets, gaming consoles and connected devices. Access to WATCH Disney Junior as well as authenticated services from SEC ESPN Network and Longhorn Network will launch later this year.

 

DISH customers can now conveniently watch live programming from ABC Family, Disney Channel and Disney XD as well as live network streams of ABC, which are currently available in New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, Houston, Fresno, Philadelphia and Raleigh-Durham. Additionally, live events and programming from ESPN networks - including ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN3, ESPNU, ESPNEWS and ESPN Deportes - are now accessible. ESPN Goal Line and ESPN Buzzer Beater will also be available on WatchESPN when those channels are in season. Video subscribers will need to log in with their DISH online IDs and passwords to access all services.

 

In addition to live streaming, DISH video subscribers can watch the most current episodes of ABC and ABC Family original series the day after they air online at ABC.com and ABCFamily.com or on smartphones and tablets via the WATCH ABC and WATCH ABC Family apps, which are available free to download in the App Store, Google Play Store, Amazon Appstore and Windows Store. WATCH ABC is also accessible on Apple TV.

 

DISH customers can access live and popular on-demand programming from Disney Channel and Disney XD online at WATCHDisneyChannel.com and WATCHDisneyXD.com. The WATCH Disney Channel and WATCH Disney XD apps are free to download in the App Store and Amazon Appstore. The networks are also accessible on Apple TV and Roku.

 

For WatchESPN, DISH video subscribers can visit WatchESPN.com on their computers for live access to ESPN networks. Customers with a supported smartphone or tablet can also download the free WatchESPN app by visiting the App Store, Google Play Store, Amazon Appstore or Windows Store. The app features access to live content and on-demand video clips. WatchESPN live programming and on-demand clips are also available on Xbox 360, Xbox One, Apple TV and Roku.

 

About DISH

DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH), through its subsidiary DISH Network L.L.C., provides approximately 14.057 million satellite TV customers, as of Dec. 31, 2013, with the highest quality programming and technology with the most choices at the best value. Subscribers enjoy a high definition line-up with more than 200 national HD channels, the most international channels, and award-winning HD and DVR technology. DISH Network Corporation is a Fortune 200 company. Visit www.dish.com.

 

About The Walt Disney Company

The Walt Disney Company, together with its subsidiaries and affiliates, is a leading diversified international entertainment and media enterprise with five business segments: media networks, parks and resorts, studio entertainment, consumer products and interactive. Disney is a Dow 30 company and had annual revenues of $45 billion in its Fiscal Year 2013.


-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.





Protected By... spam firewall...And...