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International equipment needed?


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29 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   orbit626

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:54 PM

I am sorry if this has been asked, but I cant seem to find a definitive answer via search.

 

I live in the USA (MI), and I would like to add the Korean package to my DTV service. I currently have a "Slimline 3" with four coax cables going directly to two HR-24/100 (2 cables each)  HD DVR receivers.....NO multi-switch.

 

What additional equipment do I need to get international programing? I have some fair/decent knowledge with this kind of stuff (more C-band tho), so I'm positive I can do it myself, which would be preferred.

 

I have access to an older (3-4yrs) 5 LNB dish.....is that still acceptable? I'm sure I'd need a multi-switch of some sort to get both tuners working on the two HD-DVRs?

 

I know about having to "move" my package over to get international programing, but I am what they call "grandfathered in", as I have had DTV since the get go.....does that mean anything?

 

I guess I'm just wondering if I should let DTV take care of it, or can I do It myself with bought equipment? There's still a crap ton of snow on the ground here, so I would rather do it myself now if possible than wait.

 

Again, I am sorry if this has been asked a lot, but I didn't have much luck via search and other outlets. Might as well ask at the best place, right?! :)

 

Thanks!!



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#2 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 09:01 PM

To begin you need an international dish and a 6x8 multiswitch.  4 cables from the Slimline 3 dish connects to 4 ports on the 6x8 and the international connects to flex port .  you are better off having DirecTV do this for you as aiming the 95W dish is no easy task for the uninitiated 


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#3 OFFLINE   orbit626

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 09:04 PM

Ah, I see. Thanks for the info peds48.

 

I had a feeling it would be better to let them handle it, but I like doing stuff myself and just thought I'd see.

 

Thanks again!



#4 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 09:06 PM

if you are feeling adventurous then go for it, although it may be cheaper to have Directv do it for you


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#5 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 09:16 PM

if you are feeling adventurous then go for it, although it may be cheaper to have Directv do it for you

The linear polarization of the World Direct feed will make alignment more challenging than the circular polarization of the other feeds.


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#6 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 09:23 PM

The linear polarization of the World Direct feed will make alignment more challenging than the circular polarization of the other feeds.

are you telling me this for real?????  !rolling

 

Trust me, have personal experience and if there is something I hate, this is it!


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#7 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 09:26 PM

are you telling me this for real?????  !rolling

It's getting harder to tell you anything these days :lol:

"So" this was more for the TS


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#8 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 12:01 PM

Curious;

 

Is the mounting bracket for the linear LNBF on the 95w ODU designed to allow installation at only one fixed skew position so that it's (the linear LNBF) horizontal axis is exactly parallel to the dish's long axis dimension?

 

Since this way it would make installation easier as the correct dish tilt will also set the proper skew for a linear LNBF.

 

Assuming of course that the 95w satellite's (the G3C bird at present) N-S station axis is kept perpendicular to the Clarke belt, as almost all geosynchronous satellites are maintained to be.        


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#9 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 12:20 PM

Curious;

 

Is the mounting bracket for the linear LNBF on the 95w ODU designed to allow installation at only one fixed skew position so that it's (the linear LNBF) horizontal axis is exactly parallel to the dish's long axis dimension?

 

Since this way it would make installation easier as the correct dish tilt will also set the proper skew for a linear LNBF.

 

Assuming of course that the 95w satellite's (the G3C bird at present) N-S station axis is kept perpendicular to the Clarke belt, as almost all geosynchronous satellites are maintained to be.        

I think what you're trying to get at is:

From your LA location, "tilt" is to align to the Clark belt, but "skew" would be the opposite as you need to align the dish to the 95W "true north".


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#10 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 01:34 PM

I think what you're trying to get at is:

From your LA location, "tilt" is to align to the Clark belt, but "skew" would be the opposite as you need to align the dish to the 95W "true north".

No, I meant adjusting a linear LNBF's "skew" is to match the received signal polarization of the dish's feedhorn antenna with plane of polarization coming from the satellite.

 

For a satellite with it's N-S axis maintained at right angles to the Clarke belt would naturally mean a horizontally polarized signal would be parallel to the Clarke belt.

 

Therefore if the mount for the linear LNBF on the 95w dish is fixed so that it's horiz. polarity is parallel to the long axis of the dish, then setting the tilt should also set the LNBF skew correctly.

 

Correct?    


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#11 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 04:05 PM

No, I meant adjusting a linear LNBF's "skew" is to match the received signal polarization of the dish's feedhorn antenna with plane of polarization coming from the satellite. Correct

 

For a satellite with it's N-S axis maintained at right angles to the Clarke belt would naturally mean a horizontally polarized signal would be parallel to the Clarke belt. Not at all earth locations, "but" if you lived in Hitchcock TX, yes

 

Therefore if the mount for the linear LNBF on the 95w dish is fixed so that it's horiz. polarity is parallel to the long axis of the dish, then setting the tilt should also set the LNBF skew correctly. correct

 

Correct?    

In LA, a Slimline "tilt" is 113.7° because of the Clark Belt, while a WorldDirect "skew" is -30.3° to align with the north/south of the 95W SAT.

 

In Hitchcock TX, the Slimline tilt is 65.3° and the WD is 0° because it's 95W.


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#12 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 06:29 PM

In LA, a Slimline "tilt" is 113.7° because of the Clark Belt, while a WorldDirect "skew" is -30.3° to align with the north/south of the 95W SAT.

 

In Hitchcock TX, the Slimline tilt is 65.3° and the WD is 0° because it's 95W.

But shouldn't ("normally") all horiz. polarized signals actually be parallel to the Clarke belt regardless of the geographical position of a satellite earth station?

 

The difference being that since the Clarke belt itself has various angles with respect to an earth station depending on it's geo- position (the belt being level only at 180 degrees true azimuth to a station) the angle of the horiz. polarized signals from a satellite will be equal to those same belt angles which the skew angle of a linear LNBF needs to match for a given location on earth.    


Edited by HoTat2, 16 March 2014 - 06:32 PM.

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#13 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 08:03 PM

But shouldn't ("normally") all horiz. polarized signals actually be parallel to the Clarke belt regardless of the geographical position of a satellite earth station?

 

The difference being that since the Clarke belt itself has various angles with respect to an earth station depending on it's geo- position (the belt being level only at 180 degrees true azimuth to a station) the angle of the horiz. polarized signals from a satellite will be equal to those same belt angles which the skew angle of a linear LNBF needs to match for a given location on earth.    

There's a perspective "issue" here.

Every SAT with horizontal polarization will be inline with the Clarke Belt, "at its location".

From earth they won't appear to be, due to the three dimensional geometry involved.

 

"Say" the slimline were for linear polarization feeds.

You'd use the tilt to adjust for the angle the Clarke Belt is to the point on earth, for 99-119.

Then each LNB would need to be "skewed" to match the SAT pointing north, as this angle varies relative to the location of the dish.

Circular polarization doesn't require "this skew".


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#14 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 08:55 PM

Let's see if this makes sense with a drawing.

 

The top is either from the SAT or a position at the same longitude, where the SAT it straight above, and the vertical points north..

 

The lower is when the dish location is pointed easterly to the SAT, so the Clarke Belt is angled and the blue is the skew to point north.

 

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#15 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:01 AM

Yes, I understand all this VOS;

 

But AIUI when a satellite earth station is viewing a bird at any other location on the Clarke than one at it's local longitude position (or at 180 degrees true Az.), the satellite's N-S axis is going to appear to the dish as diagonally inclined to somewhere greater or lesser than 90 degrees or straight up which only occurs for a bird right at the local long.

 

For instance, the 95w satellite's horiz. polarity signals are going to be at an angle of 30 degrees past horizontal to a dish at my location which is the same angle the Clarke belt makes to the earth station at my position. Therefore in order to receive it properly the linear LNBF receive horn on the dish must be angled in that same way.  

 

If the feedhorn's vertical axis is positioned straight up at 90 degrees as you say, then it's going to lose signal strength by being 30 degrees off in error on it's horizontal axis.     


Edited by HoTat2, 17 March 2014 - 09:06 AM.

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#16 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:25 AM

Yes, I understand all this VOS;

For instance, the 95w satellite's horiz. polarity signals are going to be at an angle of 30 degrees past horizontal to a dish at my location which is the same angle the Clarke belt makes to the earth station at my position. Therefore in order to receive it properly the linear LNBF receive horn on the dish must be angled in that same way.    

Let's try this the other way:

Dishpointer give this for your area:

In LA, a Slimline "tilt" is 113.7° because of the Clark Belt, while a WorldDirect "skew" is -30.3° to align with the north/south of the 95W SAT.

 

You want to try to explain the difference?


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#17 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:43 AM

just something "funny" here is NY the tilt for the Slimline is 62 and the WD dish is 115 quite the opposite


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#18 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 10:26 AM

just something "funny" here is NY the tilt for the Slimline is 62 and the WD dish is 115 quite the opposite

Thanks for "data points".

It shows what being east of the SATs are verses west.

 

Hitchcock TX, is right inline with 95W so the WD is 0° and  99-103 are west so the Slimline tilt is 65.3°.


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#19 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 11:36 AM

Let's try this the other way:

Dishpointer give this for your area:

In LA, a Slimline "tilt" is 113.7° because of the Clark Belt, while a WorldDirect "skew" is -30.3° to align with the north/south of the 95W SAT.

 

You want to try to explain the difference?

Well I'll try ... :)

 

As a starting reference, say for a satellite located due south of an earth station's position at my geo- longitude at ~118°;

 

And let's use the standard trigonometric notation where "positive" angles correspond to CCW movement of vectors.  So we label the West axis of the satellite at 0°, the North axis at +90°, the East axis at +180° and the South axis at +270° at the start.

 

Now if you view a satellite to the east of Los Angeles at 101, all the vectors will "appear" to rotate CCW by 23°. So now the West axis "appears" to have moved to +23°, the North is now at +113°, the East at +203°, and the South at 293°

 

Moving further East along the Clarke belt to the 95w satellite, all the vectors again "appear" to rotate a further 7°, so the West axis now "appears" to move to +30°, the North to +120°, East to +210°, and South is to +300° from an L.A. based earth station.

 

So to sum up, the feedhorn for the linear LNBF on the WD dish must be positioned at to parallel the +210° to +30° axis (or -330° to -150° axis using CW vector notation) in order to properly receive a horiz. polarized signal.

 

This is why earth stations viewing satellites to the extreme east or west of their positions see the satellite's vertical and horizontal axes as almost interchanged from what they would be if they were at the earth station's local long. With the vertical seen as near horizontal and the horizontal as almost vertical.

 

Hope my I explanation went well ... :D       


Edited by HoTat2, 17 March 2014 - 11:44 AM.

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#20 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 11:39 AM

just something "funny" here is NY the tilt for the Slimline is 62 and the WD dish is 115 quite the opposite


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Yes, I notice the tilt labeling convention for the WD dish is reversed from that of the SlimLine dish.

 

CW vs. CCW vector rotation.

 

Very confusing to do that. 


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