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Genie/Whole-Home Service


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#1 OFFLINE   mccoady

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:10 PM

(Sorry for the long post but I haven't kept up with the latest offerings and I did read the Genie manual)

Been thinking about upgrading to a Genie and we currently have a H24, HR24, and 2 Tivo SD's. My receivers have two coax cables ran to each ( I think) so I would probably need a dish upgrade also. I've been with DirecTV for several years and it's probably been a couple of years since my last equipment upgrade.

Here's my setup:
HR24 & one TiVo SD is in my home theater room mainly because I need the ability to have at least 100 season passes.The TiVo has an RF out so I mirror it to a bedroom from that DVR. I watch a lot of tv so my season pass limit on my HR24 is completely full and my TiVo Season Passes are at 120 although some could be deleted. For the record the season passes on my HR24 are all duplicated on my TiVo but only because I need to be able to watch my shows wherever I happen to be (home theater room or bedroom).

Second TiVo SD is in my son's room and since he is blind I need to be able to keep this DVR. He is able to navigate via the sounds and familiarity of the TiVo GUI. I know it won't connect to the Genie but that is probably preferable anyway in this case.

H24 (wife's receiver) is in another bedroom which feeds via an RF modulator 3 other small tv's in the house. It is the only other HD TV (32") we have so since my wife thinks it looks good at any resolution I have it set to 480p to get around the HD pop up screen.

The Genie would go in my home theater room so I would discontinue using the HR24 and TiVo SD. The Genie's 5 tuners would be mainly for me although my wife's H24 (or HR24) would have access to it.

Questions:

1. I'm assuming you can setup a Genie/Whole-Home Service and still be able to use another SD receiver (like my son's TiVo) outside of this system, correct?

2. Since I've never seen a Genie setup or had Whole-Home Service I'm a little confused on how this all works. With a H24 connected does it use it's own tuner to watch live tv or the Genie's?

3. With a Genie installed I'm assuming I can still continue mirroring the H24 (or HR24) to the 3 smaller tv's like before via RF modulator. I'm also assuming I can use a RF modulator to mirror the Genie to the other bedroom like I currently do with the TiVo. Big issue for me though, is there anyway to get around the HD pop up screen when I mirror the Genie because reducing the resolution on my 58" Plasma is unacceptable?

4. How do you switch among 5 tuners with a Genie? Double-play? Can you switch back and forth between specific tuners?

5. With the Genie series limit capped at 100 do you find it's still not enough? I'm trying to decide if I would be better off keeping my current setup (HR24 & TiVo) since I'm basically not limited to how many I can have.

I'm also wondering about putting all your eggs in one basket if the Genie goes down then you have no tv.

6. Does a HR24 connected to a Genie/WHS still have it's own playlist or is it consolidated with the Genie's list? Does it in practice increase the overall series limit so it's not capped at 100?

7. Are there any major issues guys are having with the Genie? Quirks in viewing menu's from another client?

Has anyone found that the Genie when new starts out extremely fast (like my HR24) but over time becomes extremely slow (like my HR24)?

8. Do I understand correctly that if I deactivated one receiver and added a Genie I would only be charged $3 monthly more for the Whole-Home Service? Consequently deactivating two receivers would put me in the red?

9. I would sure hate to have to send back my HR24, but if I understand correctly if I deactivate my TiVo SD (I own), swap out my wife's H24 with my HR24 and then deactivate/send back the H24 I would have 9 tuners. Can you request a SWM16 and does anyone know what they would charge me?

10. Any idea what getting setup with a Genie and upgrading my dish could cost me?

Are they mainly sending out the HR44's or is there still a good chance to get a HR34? Like everyone I want the HR44 since I'm sure it's faster but I also need the Optical Out so I don't have to buy some adapter.

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#2 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:24 PM

1. While it can be used, is not approved configuration by DirecTV and there may be some "push back"

 

2. HD receivers and HDDVRs, all use their own tuner.  is only Genie minis that share they tuners with the main Genie

 

3. Yes, you can still continue to mirror the H24.  as you found out with the H24, there is no way to disable the pop up short of setting the Genie to SD RES or you can buy a component to composite adapter to feed the RF MOD, this will let you use the Genie on HD resolution while feeding the RF MOD

 

4. you have to start double play, which you do by pressing the DOWN arrow twice and you can only switch between two tuners, not all five

 

5. No problem for me.  YMMV

 

6. all playlist are combined to one, although you can choose via menu option to see just local.  the series limit still remains at 50

 

7. don't have clients, but my genies works flawlessly, so far

 

8. regardless if you deactivate or not, you will still be charge the WHDVR fee of $3.00 monthly. each receiver carries a $6.00 a month fee, so deactivating two receivers will put you in the "black" with a gain (to you) of $9.00 a month

 

9. anything that you need to get your system wired is included in the upgrade at no additional cost 

 

10. call DirecTV to find out 

 

11. is the luck of the draw.  it appears that some markets have HR34 for now 


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#3 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:41 PM

Questions:

1. I'm assuming you can setup a Genie/Whole-Home Service and still be able to use another SD receiver (like my son's TiVo) outside of this system, correct?

 

As peds noted, this is not an approved configuration. You would have to move to an SWM (Single Wire Multiswitch) configuration for the Genie, and the Tivo requires a legacy connection. You would almost certainly have to make that happen on your own, but it can be done. Either put up a separate round dish for the Tivo, or run a WB68 in parallel with an SWM16, and feed the Tivo off the WB68.

2. Since I've never seen a Genie setup or had Whole-Home Service I'm a little confused on how this all works. With a H24 connected does it use it's own tuner to watch live tv or the Genie's?

 

All receivers/DVRs will see a consolidated play list (unless you exclude a unit - which you can do). But you can't sort/filter, for all units that are set to share their playlist, it results in one large playlist. Clients share a Genie tuner, receivers and DVRs use their own tuners.

3. With a Genie installed I'm assuming I can still continue mirroring the H24 (or HR24) to the 3 smaller tv's like before via RF modulator. I'm also assuming I can use a RF modulator to mirror the Genie to the other bedroom like I currently do with the TiVo. Big issue for me though, is there anyway to get around the HD pop up screen when I mirror the Genie because reducing the resolution on my 58" Plasma is unacceptable?

 

Yes, but off the Genie you want to use a component to composite converter. Feed your local TV via HDMI, the converter via component, then the composite output of the converter to remote tv's.

4. How do you switch among 5 tuners with a Genie? Double-play? Can you switch back and forth between specific tuners?

 

As peds noted, you can only double play two tuners (and you don't select which 2, it just gives you a live tuner, and if you hit double play it gives you a second tuner. It doesn't matter to you which tuner(s) you have.)

5. With the Genie series limit capped at 100 do you find it's still not enough? I'm trying to decide if I would be better off keeping my current setup (HR24 & TiVo) since I'm basically not limited to how many I can have.

 

It sounds like having a lot of series links is important to you. I can't imagine having even 50, so I can't begin to know if 100 would be enough for you.

 

I'm also wondering about putting all your eggs in one basket if the Genie goes down then you have no tv.

 

Well, you will still have your HR24 and could hang onto your Tivo if you wanted.

6. Does a HR24 connected to a Genie/WHS still have it's own playlist or is it consolidated with the Genie's list? Does it in practice increase the overall series limit so it's not capped at 100?

 

The HR24 can have 50 series links, the Genie can have 100. Combined you would have 150.

7. Are there any major issues guys are having with the Genie? Quirks in viewing menu's from another client?

 

I've had no problems with either an HR34 or an HR44.

Has anyone found that the Genie when new starts out extremely fast (like my HR24) but over time becomes extremely slow (like my HR24)?

 

Your issues are probably related to a combination of max series links and a fairly/very full hard drive. The HR44 has a much faster processor, so even if you start approaching those limits you should not expect as significant a slow down.

8. Do I understand correctly that if I deactivated one receiver and added a Genie I would only be charged $3 monthly more for the Whole-Home Service? Consequently deactivating two receivers would put me in the red?

9. I would sure hate to have to send back my HR24, but if I understand correctly if I deactivate my TiVo SD (I own), swap out my wife's H24 with my HR24 and then deactivate/send back the H24 I would have 9 tuners. Can you request a SWM16 and does anyone know what they would charge me?

 

Keep the HR24. But your issue won't be with too many tuners, because the Tivo can't use the SWM channels. A Genie and an HR24 would be 7 tuners. Plus that would only get you an SWM LNB (not an external SWM), which would complicate trying to run a legacy multiswitch in parallel.

10. Any idea what getting setup with a Genie and upgrading my dish could cost me?

 

Other than the issue of continuing support for your Tivo, nothing.  But the Tivo piece is going to be outside/beyond the normal installation for the Genie.

Are they mainly sending out the HR44's or is there still a good chance to get a HR34? Like everyone I want the HR44 since I'm sure it's faster but I also need the Optical Out so I don't have to buy some adapter.



#4 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:51 PM

Not sure how your system is set up exactly but I'd swap you main TiVo for a genie And the h24 for a genie mini. I'd put the mini in the room that is currently mirrored from your home theater room. Then id hook up the HR24 where the h24 was.

And they need to install a swim8 not and swim lnb and then there is no question you can keep your sons TiVo. And if you get push back if push back myself. Nicely but enough to make it happen.

As far as recordings limits an such that depends some in how you record and hat you record. Especially if your record a fair amount Of sports the genies are better than any other unit at that, tivos included.

What kinds of things do you record?

#5 OFFLINE   mccoady

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:49 AM

Wow thanks for all the replies let's go over the questions I'm still not clear about.

 

1. Ok it seems using the Tivo SD outside of the Genie/WHS is more of a problem than I thought. Just on the technical part carl6 seems to be saying it would be very difficult to do and beyond a normal tech's ability... I know I couldn't do it.. On the other hand inkahauts seems to be saying it wouldn't be that big of a deal apart from getting some push back from Directv. Could you clarify?

 

It still looks like I would have a problem with 9 tuners: my son's Tivo SD, HR24 & Genie even if the above could work and I need these three receivers. Can the newer Tivo HD be used with the Genie/WHS?

 

If it wasn't for the cost of upgrading to the new Tivo HD I might consider it...anyway I'm assuming I wouldn't get it for free or cheap. Also there's the extra $5 monthly for a Tivo HD which I'm not crazy about.

 

3. Carl6 says to use a composite to component converter and I guess that would be the cheaper long term solution... could you provide a link?

 

Inkahauts mentioned swapping the H24 for a Genie Mini which I hadn't thought about although it does cost me $6 a month which I guess I'm already paying for. I suppose the plus side of this setup is when I eventually replaced my 4:3 tv I would have HD to it.

 

6. Carl6 said I would have a 150 series links with a Genie and HR24 boy that's just what I was hoping for! So since my HR24 series links are at the 50 limit would it make since after acquiring a Genie to wipe the HR24 and setup those series links on the Genie?

 

How in general does Directv handle receiver upgrades as far as cost goes does it help or hurt if you're upgrading to Whole-Home Service and a Genie? I just want to be prepared when I call them so I know what they want to give me.

 

 

Inkahauts I watch pretty much everything network shows, cable shows & lots of sports! With so many of the cable shows now having split seasons it's just so much easier to set a series link and forget about it.


Edited by mccoady, 07 April 2014 - 09:57 AM.


#6 OFFLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:09 PM

Wow thanks for all the replies let's go over the questions I'm still not clear about.

 

1. Ok it seems using the Tivo SD outside of the Genie/WHS is more of a problem than I thought. Just on the technical part carl6 seems to be saying it would be very difficult to do and beyond a normal tech's ability... I know I couldn't do it.. On the other hand inkahauts seems to be saying it wouldn't be that big of a deal apart from getting some push back from Directv. Could you clarify?

 

It still looks like I would have a problem with 9 tuners: my son's Tivo SD, HR24 & Genie even if the above could work and I need these three receivers. Can the newer Tivo HD be used with the Genie/WHS?

 

 

It shouldn't be beyond the ability of any tech's ability.  It's just not something that they typically do because it's not technically supported.  Also, it would use equipment that they typically don't have on their trucks.  DirecTV currently uses technology known as Single Wire Multiswitch (SWM).  It allows up to 8 tuners on a single coax cable.  This is what prevents DirecTV from needing to run 5 coax cables to a Genie.

 

For installations with 8 tuners or less, DirecTV uses a SWM LNB on the dish.  They run a single wire from the dish and split it as needed.  For installations with 9 tuners or more, DirecTV uses a SWM-16 switch.  They run 4 wires from the "classic" LNB on the dish to the SWM-16.  Coming from the SWM is two coax cables, each of which can feed up to 8 tuners via splitting.  There is also a SWM8 switch that works just like the SWM16, but it feeds only 8 tuners.  DirecTV techs don't carry this on their truck because the SWM LNB is less expensive and does the same thing.

 

EXCEPT, since the old Tivo doesn't work with SWM technology, the SWM8 does the one thing that you need it to do, that the SWM LNB doesn't.  It allows older non-SWM capable receivers to be connected to it via "Legacy" outputs.  You need to connect your son's Tivo using the Legacy outputs.

 

A SWM16 also has legacy outputs that can be used.  But, I don't know if a tech would install a SWM16 into a system that only requires 7 SWM channels.  Regardless, replacing non-SWM capable receivers with SWM capable receivers is the current DirecTV policy when installing SWM into a home.  You need to convince them that, due to your son's circumstances, they should make an exception to that policy.



#7 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:58 PM

Wow thanks for all the replies let's go over the questions I'm still not clear about.

 

1. Ok it seems using the Tivo SD outside of the Genie/WHS is more of a problem than I thought. Just on the technical part carl6 seems to be saying it would be very difficult to do and beyond a normal tech's ability... I know I couldn't do it.. On the other hand inkahauts seems to be saying it wouldn't be that big of a deal apart from getting some push back from Directv. Could you clarify? When you upgrade to a Genie the system will automatically want to replace the TiVO with an R16 which is a DirecTV SD DVR and is SWM compatible.  you can keep your SD TiVO as long as you do it yourself "off the books"

 

It still looks like I would have a problem with 9 tuners: my son's Tivo SD, HR24 & Genie even if the above could work and I need these three receivers. Can the newer Tivo HD be used with the Genie/WHS? the new HD TiVO can be used ALONG SIDE with the Genie, however it won't participate on WHDVR

 

If it wasn't for the cost of upgrading to the new Tivo HD I might consider it...anyway I'm assuming I wouldn't get it for free or cheap. Also there's the extra $5 monthly for a Tivo HD which I'm not crazy about. 

 

3. Carl6 says to use a composite to component converter and I guess that would be the cheaper long term solution... could you provide a link?

http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

 

Inkahauts mentioned swapping the H24 for a Genie Mini which I hadn't thought about although it does cost me $6 a month which I guess I'm already paying for. I suppose the plus side of this setup is when I eventually replaced my 4:3 tv I would have HD to it. Well the H24 is an HD receiver so... you already have HD

 

6. Carl6 said I would have a 150 series links with a Genie and HR24 boy that's just what I was hoping for! So since my HR24 series links are at the 50 limit would it make since after acquiring a Genie to wipe the HR24 and setup those series links on the Genie? Remember those 150 are separate, 100 on the Genie and 50 on the HR24

 

 


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#8 OFFLINE   mccoady

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:10 PM

Bill thanks for trying to explain how SWM works I'm still trying to process it all.

How would one go about trying to explain to the customer rep what I was wanting to do. Would they be knowledgeable enough to entertain it could be done so I would have a chance to present my case?

I'm assuming replacing my son's TiVo with a THR22 would solve the SWM issue. I guess the main issues I would have are the dang $5 monthly fee and maybe discontinued support for present or future bugs from what I've read. Of course that's not even considering what it would cost me for the THR22 itself and the Genie.

Another thing would be once I switch from my present setup to using all HD receivers I could never again use my old TiVo's as backups. Clearly integrating my old TiVo's into a Genie/Whole-Home System would be my desired setup but I now see probably not possible.

#9 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:19 PM


How would one go about trying to explain to the customer rep what I was wanting to do. 

They will have no clue!  as everything is automatic.  they system will update your current TIVO to an R16


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#10 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:27 PM

Carl6 says, Bill Broderick Says, peds48 says...

I think Bill and Peds sufficiently clarified, but to be sure...

If you order a Genie, DirecTVs system won't let them set you up and keep your legacy Tivo running. That is because of the difference between SWM and non-SWM equipment, and the Genie mandates SWM.  As Bill noted, I doubt it is beyond the ability of a tech, but it is not a supported configuration and an installer could get charged back for doing an unsupported instal.

 

I mentioned running an SWM switch and a legacy switch in parallel (which you could do, but on your own). However Bill noted using the legacy port(s) on an SWM8 or SWM16 multiswitch for the Tivo, which will also work. The problem is, with a Genie and an HR2x DVR, you won't get an external SWM switch, you will get the SWM LNB (which does not have legacy output ports). If you order an SWM8 in advance and have it on-hand, the installer could probably be per$uaded to install that instead of the SWM LNB. Then you could simply connect the Tivo to the legacy ports after the installer is finished with the rest of the install.

 

Do not count your Tivo tuners in conjunction with Genie or HR2x tuners. As far as an 8 tuner limit is concerned, only SWM capable tuners count and the Tivo is not SWM capable. It basically "doesn't exist" as far as DirecTV would be concerned in a Genie/whole-home/SWM system, and even when connected to the legacy port of an SWM8, it still isn't going against the 8 tuner count. You could have the Genie (5 tuners), an HR24 (2 tuners), an H2x (1 tuner) which add up to 8 tuners, and still run three legacy tuners off the legacy ports of an SWM8. That's because the legacy ports are not using SWM tuner channels.

 

And as peds notes, the 150 series links are 100 on the Genie (which would record on the Genie) and 50 on the HR24 (which would record on the HR24). You would have to manage each of those individually. However all recordings would in fact appear in the combined play list, so you could watch any recording from any of the 150 maximum series links on any Genie, Genie client or Hx2x DVR/receiver (but not on your Tivo).



#11 OFFLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 05:07 PM

I mentioned running an SWM switch and a legacy switch in parallel (which you could do, but on your own). However Bill noted using the legacy port(s) on an SWM8 or SWM16 multiswitch for the Tivo, which will also work. The problem is, with a Genie and an HR2x DVR, you won't get an external SWM switch, you will get the SWM LNB (which does not have legacy output ports). If you order an SWM8 in advance and have it on-hand, the installer could probably be per$uaded to install that instead of the SWM LNB. Then you could simply connect the Tivo to the legacy ports after the installer is finished with the rest of the install.

 

You can get a SWM8 on ebay for about $35.  If you go this route, you should get one that comes with a Power Inserter.  If you find a real good deal on one that doesn't come wiht a Power Inserter, that's OK.  The tech will have one on his truck.



#12 OFFLINE   mccoady

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 05:46 PM

You can get a SWM8 on ebay for about $35.  If you go this route, you should get one that comes with a Power Inserter.  If you find a real good deal on one that doesn't come wiht a Power Inserter, that's OK.  The tech will have one on his truck.

 

 

So how would you go about placing a Genie order then when they would be wanting to know what you what was hooked up. Would you actually have to go thru deactivating the TiVo's and then turn around and re-activate them? And then if you did that they might say you can't use your TiVo's with our installation since they wouldn't know you used your own SWM8. Just trying to think this all out.

 

Also what if the installer got to my house and said he wasn't interested in installing a SWM8 instead of the regular even if if I tipped him. What would I do then?



#13 OFFLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 06:19 PM

I'd just talk to them about the equipment that I want changes.  I would just order the Genie and tell them the CSR that you are replacing a Tivo and want to keep my other equipment (of if you want to replace the H24 with a client, I'd tell them that).  If they told me that they need to replace the other Tivo, I'd just go along with it.  The tech will come to your house thinking that you need a SWM 16 because you will have 10 tuners (9 if you replace the H24 with a client).

 

I'd be very surprised if, after you explained the situation to the tech, if he had any problem with letting you keep the Tivo connected to the legacy ports of the SWM8.  It should be a simple install for the tech.  He should be able to put the SWM8 in the exact same place where your existing WB68 is installed and then can probably use the same cables that currently run to the various receivers in your house.

 

Maybe peds48 can tell us what he'd do if he showed up at your house you told him what you need to have done.



#14 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 07:13 PM

 

Maybe peds48 can tell us what he'd do if he showed up at your house you told him what you need to have done.

I would not do it!  at least in my market every job we touch, have to be "spik-n-span" or risk having to go over and re do it again at your dime, do it 4 times, and they send you to the unemployment line.  YMMV.  

 

having an unsupported system means that a tech who wants to do the job right, can refuse to do their work if the customer refuses to let the job be brought up to specs 


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#15 OFFLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:03 PM

I would not do it!  at least in my market every job we touch, have to be "spik-n-span" or risk having to go over and re do it again at your dime, do it 4 times, and they send you to the unemployment line.  YMMV.  

 

having an unsupported system means that a tech who wants to do the job right, can refuse to do their work if the customer refuses to let the job be brought up to specs 

 

So, does that mean that any job that utilizes the Legacy ports is now "unsupported" by DirecTV?

 

Do the new Tivo's work with SWM?  Are systems with a combination of HR's and Tivo's supported?  If so, is the only supported solution for mccoady to get a Genie and a new Tivo from DirecTV?



#16 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:09 PM

So, does that mean that any job that utilizes the Legacy ports is now "unsupported" by DirecTV?  It has never been supported. 

 

Do the new Tivo's work with SWM?  Are systems with a combination of HR's and Tivo's supported?  If so, is the only supported solution for mccoady to get a Genie and a new Tivo from DirecTV? Yes, THR22 are SWM compatible.  No as I said, if TS does not take a Genie mini which is more likely  what the CSR might recommend, then he must take an R16


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The the troublemakers.
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The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


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#17 OFFLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:27 PM

 

So, does that mean that any job that utilizes the Legacy ports is now "unsupported" by DirecTV?  It has never been supported. 

 

 

 

That's odd.  I wonder what the point of having them designed with legacy ports was if they weren't going to be supported.



#18 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:37 PM

 

 

So, does that mean that any job that utilizes the Legacy ports is now "unsupported" by DirecTV?  It has never been supported. 

 

 

 

That's odd.  I wonder what the point of having them designed with legacy ports was if they weren't going to be supported.

 

Same can be said about SWM8 OTA input. is there, but we know it does not play well with DECA.


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#19 OFFLINE   mccoady

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:02 PM

I've been trying to follow your conversations hoping I'll learn something new. Was peds saying I could or couldn't use the newer TiVo THR22 with a Genie?

#20 OFFLINE   mccoady

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:22 PM

I've been trying to follow your conversations hoping I'll learn something new. Was peds saying I could or couldn't use the newer TiVo THR22 with a Genie?

Ok I see earlier in my thread peds said you could.

Should I be concerned that there is talk support is being discontinued for the THR22 TiVo since my son will always need to use a Directv TiVo.

If I get time tomorrow I will call and see if what they would charge me for a Genie, THR22 TiVo, and possibly a Mini.




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