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Guest Message by DevFuse

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AM21 Fun/Cavaet Emptor


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#21 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:24 PM

so it does not

It does, just not in a way we would like where channels not in the database are detected.

It does a scan that removes the stations that are in the database for the market that you don't get (or it thinks you don't get) on your behalf so you can't even enable those stations manually. Which is annoying for areas where a signal can be hit or miss at various points during the year because of co-channel interference from a neighboring market or if you need to use a rotator to get some channels.

The scan also matches different RF numbers for repeaters. (i.e. it picks up WCBS's Long Island repeater on channel 22 since it also uses 2-1 despite the only data in the guide being for the main NYC signal on channel 33) It can also match RF + minor number if you want to use the trick to get the guide data from another market who has the same network.

Edited by KyL416, 11 April 2014 - 07:24 PM.


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#22 OFFLINE   DBSSTEPHEN

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:45 PM

my hr 23 700 does scans for locals with my am21n



#23 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:06 PM

It does, just not in a way we would like where channels not in the database are detected.

 

Well that was what I was referring to.


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#24 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:07 PM

So I guess we should say that it "scans" for channels that are in the database, not for channels that are actually coming in


Here’s to the crazy ones.
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#25 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:14 PM

It is interesting that some people still report that it scans. My experience last week when I had to reconfigure OTA on all my receivers due to a station changing frequency is that the AM21 no longer scans. There is no menu item for it, and when you do a "reset settings" and then "initial setup", you enter your local market, it finds the local market, downloads data and that's it. There is no step where it shows it scanning and slowly finding/counting channels. I didn't try it, but I expect the end configuration would be the same whether or not the antenna was plugged in during the process since it doesn't show a step where it scans.

 

The H20 still scans, there is a menu item for it, and it shows a lengthy process where it is actually scanning and keeping a count of the channels it finds (which is 0 if the antenna is not plugged in, so it is actually looking) However, after one of the software updates last year it is restricted to finding channels that are on Directv's database, so it misses some channels I can receive that aren't in the database. The H20s that I've had for a long time all have at least a dozen additional channels from back when they did a real scan. Those do not go away if you rescan, or even if you do the initial antenna setup over again. In fact, I'm not sure exactly how I'd get rid of them even if I wanted to. Perhaps "reset everything" would do the trick, or a double RBR.


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#26 OFFLINE   ejbvt

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:49 PM

so it does not

 

It does, but it no longer shows the channels it's missing with "regular schedule." It does cuts them out completely, unless you stack zips, as I have said. Until you try it, there is no need to comment further.


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#27 OFFLINE   ejbvt

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:51 PM

It is interesting that some people still report that it scans. My experience last week when I had to reconfigure OTA on all my receivers due to a station changing frequency is that the AM21 no longer scans. There is no menu item for it, and when you do a "reset settings" and then "initial setup", you enter your local market, it finds the local market, downloads data and that's it. There is no step where it shows it scanning and slowly finding/counting channels. I didn't try it, but I expect the end configuration would be the same whether or not the antenna was plugged in during the process since it doesn't show a step where it scans.

 

The H20 still scans, there is a menu item for it, and it shows a lengthy process where it is actually scanning and keeping a count of the channels it finds (which is 0 if the antenna is not plugged in, so it is actually looking) However, after one of the software updates last year it is restricted to finding channels that are on Directv's database, so it misses some channels I can receive that aren't in the database. The H20s that I've had for a long time all have at least a dozen additional channels from back when they did a real scan. Those do not go away if you rescan, or even if you do the initial antenna setup over again. In fact, I'm not sure exactly how I'd get rid of them even if I wanted to. Perhaps "reset everything" would do the trick, or a double RBR.

 

If it did not scan, you could not force zips. Since you can, it does. The H20 process, to my knowledge, is different. 


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#28 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:06 PM

It does, but it no longer shows the channels it's missing with "regular schedule." 

Because it does not!  it is just "scanning" for channels that the AM21 can "see" from the database, is not doing an actual scan, if it was, it will load channels NOT in the database with "regular schedule" since they are not in the DB


Here’s to the crazy ones.
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The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

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They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


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#29 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:26 PM

Because it does not!  it is just "scanning" for channels that the AM21 can "see" from the database, is not doing an actual scan, if it was, it will load channels NOT in the database with "regular schedule" since they are not in the DB

Actually it does scan everything from 2-52 (or 69 if they never changed the upper RF channel limit post transition), otherwise it wouldn't pick up WCBS's Long Island repeater on channel 22. So it's clearly detecting channel 22 and decoding the PSIP data to get the 2-1 mapping and possibly the call sign or TSID to match it to the entry for WCBSDT. It just doesn't include anything there isn't a matching guide entry for.

It doesn't show the step in the setup, but if I were to guess it's happening during one of the times where you have to wait a minute or two before the next step.

Edited by KyL416, 11 April 2014 - 09:35 PM.


#30 OFFLINE   ejbvt

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:44 PM

Actually it does scan everything from 2-52 (or 69 if they never changed the upper RF channel limit post transition), otherwise it wouldn't pick up WCBS's Long Island repeater on channel 22. So it's clearly detecting channel 22 and decoding the PSIP data to get the 2-1 mapping and possibly the call sign or TSID to match it to the entry for WCBSDT. It just doesn't include anything there isn't a matching guide entry for.

It doesn't show the step in the setup, but if I were to guess it's happening during one of the times where you have to wait a minute or two before the next step.

 

This.


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#31 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:59 PM

So I guess we should say that it "scans" for channels that are in the database, not for channels that are actually coming in

It "scans" the database !rolling


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#32 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:05 PM

Actually it does scan everything from 2-52 (or 69 if they never changed the upper RF channel limit post transition), otherwise it wouldn't pick up WCBS's Long Island repeater on channel 22.

I think you'll find it simply comes from the database and your zip code.

I had a similar case of a repeater and found changing my zip code to be closer to the main Tx than the repeater, changed which actual channel would be tuned to.

The repeater was closer but my antenna was pointed at the main, which caused problems until I changed zip codes.


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#33 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:13 PM

That's new, can you provide an example of the station and zip codes you used? (Gary asked me to work on a OTA guide and I need every example of oddity possible)

The latest OTA listing doesn't have any entry for a channel 22 in the NYC DMA, so it would be something Gary and/or Doctor J should look into to see if there's another data stream being provided that is zip code specific. (And potentially open up a new list of zip codes to use to get RF matches for missing subchannels)

#34 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:26 PM

That's new, can you provide an example of the station and zip codes you used? (Gary asked me to work on a OTA guide and I need every example of oddity possible)

The latest OTA listing doesn't have any entry for a channel 22 in the NYC DMA, so it would be something Gary and/or Doctor J should look into to see if there's another data stream being provided that is zip code specific. (And potentially open up a new list of zip codes to use to get RF matches for missing subchannels)

"Last year" was when I played with this.

I was in Sunnyvale and the ABC came from SFO and a repeater behind Milpitas.

"By default" the Milpitas channel had to be in the guide or it didn't show  ABC info, and I could only manually tune to the SFO one. All ABC recordings came from Milpitas.

It was clear I had better signal strength from SFO, so I changed my zip code to South San Francisco and this "dropped" Milpitas in favor of SFO.

I got the idea from a member in the NYC area, but he hasn't been as lucky with a long island verses NYC problem, "that I know of".


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#35 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:47 PM

I looked up the zip codes for those cities on Zap2it, both South San Francisco and Sunnyvale have entries for the repeater in their broadcast listings, so if there is another data stream for zip code specific mappings it isn't coming from Tribune.

Several questions to rule out other things before I bug Gary about it.

Is the signal for the repeater hit or miss where you are?
Have you tried redoing the OTA setup when the repeater is coming in good to see if it wasn't just the signal of the repeater being too weak at the time of the scan? (I've had times where the detected stations would change between scans especially when the atmospheric conditions were right, preventing reliable reception of some stations I usually get from Philly and Allentown)
Were you using any secondary zip codes?

#36 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 11:06 PM

Several questions to rule out other things before I bug Gary about it.

Is the signal for the repeater hit or miss where you are?
Have you tried redoing the OTA setup when the repeater is coming in good to see if it wasn't just the signal of the repeater being too weak at the time of the scan? (I've had times where the detected stations would change between scans especially when the atmospheric conditions were right, preventing reliable reception of some stations I usually get from Philly and Allentown)
Were you using any secondary zip codes?

No secondary Zip codes.

It wasn't a problem with the repeater, but that it was close to 90 degrees off axis from the rest of my channels coming from SFO/Oakland, which meant I either pointed to SFO or the repeater, and SFO was my wish for the other channels, so changing the zip code during the many OTA setups I did get "the database" to change to SFO from the repeater.


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#37 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 11:11 PM

Thanks, I'll ask Gary to look into it since the database he has doesn't show any of that.

#38 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 11:20 PM

Thanks, I'll ask Gary to look into it since the database he has doesn't show any of that.

As I said, this was a year ago, "and" I should have said CBS instead of ABC, as the guide was 5.1


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#39 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 11:31 PM

CBS? I can't find any live repeaters for that. Just a construction permit for a repeater on channel 42 in Napa that is about to expire in September and a STA for an experimental on channel booster on Mount San Bruno.

#40 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 11:47 PM

CBS? I can't find any live repeaters for that. Just a construction permit for a repeater on channel 42 in Napa that is about to expire in September and a STA for an experimental on channel booster on Mount San Bruno.

I know CBS and 5.1 was my interest, but use KGO-TV 35 & KGO-TV 7 if that's all you can find.

I'm no longer in Sunnyvale, so I can't "recheck", but I know having to have two entries for CBS in my guide was "my problem" and changing zips was "the fix". 


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