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2 Hoppers, 3 Joeys - 1 Joey ethernet only


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#1 OFFLINE   electro22

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:02 AM

Hello...

 

Recently upgraded my system to 2 Hoppers and 3 Joeys.  Only 1 Hopper is connected to the Internet/Ethernet.  2 Joeys are connect via Coax and 1 Joey is connected via Ethernet only.  All functions work fine, except the Ethernet connected Joey can only see DVR recordings on the Hopper it is "linked" to; it does not give me the option to select the other Hopper from the DVR recordings screen like the other Joeys.  I wondering if this is just a software limitation or a defect.  Here are the details:

  • Hopper 1 - Connected with Ethernet and bridging enabled; this is the Hopper that does PTA and all other recording
  • Hopper 2 - No Ethernet connected; being used to gain 3 tuners (not used for any recording)
  • Joey 1 - Connected via coax and linked to Hopper 2
  • Joey 2 - Connected via coax and linked to Hopper 2
  • Joey 3 - Connected via Ethernet (no coax) and linked to Hopper 2

On Joeys 1 and 2 I can press DVR on the remote and then select Hopper 1 so I can see PTA and all the recordings.  However, Joey 3 does not give me the option to view the Hopper 1 recordings - the option is just not there when I press the DVR button.  If I link Joey 3 to Hopper 1 then I see all the recordings on Hopper 1 (but do not have the option to view recordings on Hopper 2).  My goal is to have all recording done on Hopper 1 while Hopper 2 is always free to support live TV on 3 TV's.
 

Thanks for any insight...

 

-Jaret



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#2 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:04 PM

Just a stab in the dark... but it could be a limitation of using the Joey via ethernet.  You could test this out to make sure it isn't a problem specific to that Joey by swapping that Joey with one of the others and seeing if the problem stays with the Joey or stays with the ethernet connected room.

 

You didn't say... but how is that Joey connected via ethernet?  Does it go ethernet to the same router where the Hopper is ethernet connected?  Or does it somehow connect through another router?  I could imagine a theoretical possibility where that Joey could be on a different subnet from the rest of the network so that only the Hopper it is directly linked to can be seen... but that's another stab in the dark.


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#3 OFFLINE   electro22

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:10 PM

Yeah, I'm thinking it may be a limitation - but hoping not :)  The Joey and Hopper are on the same layer 2 network (no router or vlan between them) and are connected to the same switch.

 

Thanks for the tip, I will try with a different Joey and see if it follows the Joey or the Ethernet - didn't try that yet.



#4 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:20 PM

I'm working blind here of course... but another thought comes to mind, since I don't know exactly how the Hopper bridging works to share internet to other receivers.

 

Your Hopper is connected to a router, as is your Joey... so those two Hoppers are getting IP addresses on the same network.  BUT...  The Hopper then assigns IP addresses to the other Hopper and the other 2 Joeys via the MoCA network.  I'm not sure exactly how those assignments go...  It seems like (if it works like other DHCP routers) that in your scenario:

 

Hopper 1 and Joey 3 exist on the same DHCP-assigned IP address range as whatever your home network router gives out.

Hopper 2 and Joey 1 + Joey 2 exist on a different IP address range assigned by the MoCA network-sharing from Hopper 1.

 

Now, it's "bridging" so that explains how each separate network has communication with each other... but that might be the limitation you are then encountering where Joey 3 is not fully seeing the MoCA network since it exists on a different subnetwork... thus it can only see the Hopper that it is linked to.

 

IF that all makes sense, that would be my best guess as to what is happening... which would mean it isn't so much a limitation of the Hopper/Joey but a limitation of basic networking topology.


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#5 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:41 PM

bridging on separate networks doesn't sounds professionally if you know networking ...


Edited by P Smith, 21 April 2014 - 02:42 PM.


#6 OFFLINE   electro22

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:41 PM

interesting point.  They call it bridging and not routing - i think maybe you're on to something.  But, now that I think of it, my Ethernet Joey can link to either Hopper and only 1 Hopper is conencted via Ethernet - so that goes against the thought that the Joey can only see the devices on the Ethernet and not MoCA...

 

And I did just try a different Joey - same results.  The issue is following the Ethernet connected Joey.



#7 OFFLINE   electro22

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:45 PM

bridging on separate networks doesn't sounds professionally if you know networking ...

 

not everyone has a CCIE ;)  Yes, bridging by definition operates on L1 and 2 - before L3/routing.  But, to the defense, they could be different vlans and therefore isolated - but that does not appear to be the case here.



#8 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:55 PM

[did decide not pursuit CCIE, returned to EE path] well, if you know it, I would glad to hear from knowledgeable person how all your sat devices (and other relevant nodes) exist in your network ... perhaps using wireshark or so would help; also graphical presentation of your network(s) is a must for network engineer ;)



#9 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:00 PM

That's the thing... I don't even know if the Hopper bridging is technical bridging or "bridging"...  it wouldn't be the first time something was named misleadingly...

 

If you've isolated it down to the ethernet connection... about the only place left to "look" would be if the router is somehow interfering...  again, not knowing exactly how MoCA implements things...  the key here seems to be that you can connect to either Hopper to link the Joey... but once linked, you can't see the other Hopper through the DVR interface.

 

Depending on how Dish/Echostar implements things I could imagine a scenario where they access the network differently to link vs to access the unlinked Hopper...  and that may go beyond understanding of how networks are supposed to work since this is a Dish/Echostar thing here which may or may not conform and behave how we would expect.

 

The additional problem.... I gather ethernet or WiFi Joey connections (upcoming Wireless Joey from CES not withstanding) are not officially supported... and you may have stumbled upon one reason why.


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#10 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:28 PM

I have 4 Hoppers and 1 Joey on Ethernet. Only one Hopper is connected to the Internet via Ethernet. That Hopper has bridging enabled which allows Internet access on all Hoppers. All Hoppers can see each other as well as the Joey can see all 4 Hoppers. It is a limitation with the Joey on Ethernet. Hopper recordings are only shared via MoCA. The workaround is to Link the Joey to whichever Hopper you want to watch recordings from at the time.


Edited by 3HaloODST, 21 April 2014 - 09:28 PM.

2 Hoppers w/Sling / 2 Hopper 2000s / 1 Joey

1 ViP722k (separate account)


#11 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:33 PM

oh ! 4xHs ? how much you payment devoted to the boxes ?



#12 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:38 PM

I'm working blind here of course... but another thought comes to mind, since I don't know exactly how the Hopper bridging works to share internet to other receivers.

 

Your Hopper is connected to a router, as is your Joey... so those two Hoppers are getting IP addresses on the same network.  BUT...  The Hopper then assigns IP addresses to the other Hopper and the other 2 Joeys via the MoCA network.  I'm not sure exactly how those assignments go...  It seems like (if it works like other DHCP routers) that in your scenario:

 

Hopper 1 and Joey 3 exist on the same DHCP-assigned IP address range as whatever your home network router gives out.

Hopper 2 and Joey 1 + Joey 2 exist on a different IP address range assigned by the MoCA network-sharing from Hopper 1.

 

Now, it's "bridging" so that explains how each separate network has communication with each other... but that might be the limitation you are then encountering where Joey 3 is not fully seeing the MoCA network since it exists on a different subnetwork... thus it can only see the Hopper that it is linked to.

 

IF that all makes sense, that would be my best guess as to what is happening... which would mean it isn't so much a limitation of the Hopper/Joey but a limitation of basic networking topology.

The MoCA-connected devices grab an IP directly from the router's DHCP server. So the Hopper acts more like a switch than a bridge.


2 Hoppers w/Sling / 2 Hopper 2000s / 1 Joey

1 ViP722k (separate account)


#13 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:45 PM

oh ! 4xHs ? how much you payment devoted to the boxes ?

Well it was 10+7+7+7+7= $38 but now it's 12+12+12+12+7-5-5-5=$40 for the next 18 months then it will be 12+12+12+12+7=$55.


2 Hoppers w/Sling / 2 Hopper 2000s / 1 Joey

1 ViP722k (separate account)


#14 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 10:40 PM

The MoCA-connected devices grab an IP directly from the router's DHCP server. So the Hopper acts more like a switch than a bridge.

 

Thanks for that.  Somehow I had a feeling it might not really be a bridge, but rather a "bridge"... but I wasn't sure.  Knowing that eliminates most of my earlier thoughts.

 

But you addressed the real culprit and answered the question I believe with your MoCA vs IP... that makes sense... if the video sharing between the Hoppers is only over MoCA then only the Joeys connected to coax should be able to do that.

 

However... I hedge here... because... wouldn't that mean people using Joey over WiFi would have the same problem?  And yet I can't remember anyone posting of this problem before now... and it seems like if the Hopper-to-Hopper communication was only over MoCa, then a Joey on WiFi should have the same issue the Thread Starter is having with his connected via Ethernet.

 

I still think something else is going on... though I can't begin to guess what.


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#15 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 10:59 PM

Yes. I had my Joey on WiFi before I put it on Ethernet. Same issue as Ethernet Joey. The sharing menu only shows up on MoCA. Not a huge deal though. I believe that is by design so that two Internet-connected Hoppers wouldn't see each others' recordings if they were on separate MoCA networks.


2 Hoppers w/Sling / 2 Hopper 2000s / 1 Joey

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#16 OFFLINE   electro22

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:48 AM

So, is it a limitation of the hardware or something that can be fixed/added via software?  I've tried emailing Dish support twice, but I haven't heard back yet.  Any ideas how best to engage Dish on this question?



#17 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:47 AM

use PM here, send to DIRT members



#18 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:49 PM

There is a sticky post here: http://www.dbstalk.c...ct-information/

 

You can try any of the Dish reps at that link to see if they might know or be able to get more info for you.

 

If it is a hardware limitation, it might be a dead end.  If it is a problem, maybe they will know if it is something that is being addressed or not.


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#19 OFFLINE   electro22

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:59 PM

Thanks! Will update once I get some info...



#20 OFFLINE   electro22

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:30 PM

Heard back from DIRT...  Sounds like this functionality will be fully supported only on the Wireless Joey (once its available) - no info on whether it will ever be supported on the current Joey.






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