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Building a new house, need help with pre-wiring


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27 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   kydavis_md

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 10:38 PM

I'm needing some help with making sure I don't screw up the wiring for my Dish setup.  I don't currently have Dish, so I'm a little unfamiliar with the Hopper and Joey setup.  

 

Here is what I will need: TV in 5 rooms.  I want to have the house wired and ready for an additional 4 rooms that I won't be hooking up at this time (easier now than when the drywall and insulation is in place).  I was thinking of 1 Hopper in the main living room and 4 Joeys.

 

Does each receiver (hopper or joey) need an RG6 coax cable and a Cat5 cable?  

Should all RG6 cables go from the wall plate behind the TV to 1 specific place (garage wall adjacent to the satellite dish), or do these need to go back from the Joey to the Hopper?

Do I need multiple RG6 cables to the Hopper?  

Will I need a super-Joey?  (What are the advantages of this? and Does a super-Joey need any different wiring?)

 

It would be easiest to have a Dish technician, but they don't want to do the install until I am ready to activate service.  At the moment, that isn't possible...I don't even have electricity yet.  I want to get this right to avoid exposed baseboard cables or fishing through walls. 

 

Thanks in advance for any help.



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#2 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 11:44 PM

I don't know how to wire for dish but I'd suggest you don't wire for dish. Wire for anyone. You just never know.
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#3 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 12:06 AM

I'll try and give you two answers...

 

Answer #1 (Dish specific): Each Hopper needs a run of RG6 that goes back to a node (solo node or duo node depending on number of Hoppers).  Each Joey needs a run of coax (can be RG6 or RG5) that also goes back to the node.  The Hopper can bridge its internet to any other Hopper or Joey connected to that same node.  So... each room needs its own run of coax (one run per room) and the room where the Hopper goes will need an ethernet connection as well (or you could use WiFi). Hopper supports a WiFi dongle for Dish OR the Hopper w/ Sling comes with WiFi support built-in.  On a solo node you can have a single Hopper and up to 3 Joeys.  On a duo node you can have Two Hoppers and six Joeys OR you could have a Super Joey in place of one of the Hoppers.  You can't have more than one Super Joey or more than 2 Hoppers.

 

Answer #2 (more general): I'm with inkahauts...  if cost isn't an issue and you are doing the work yourself OR getting someone to do it for you before the drywall goes up...  I would personally pre-wire my home for the future in case you have other thoughts later.  Personally, I would run at least 2 runs of RG6 to any room that I thought I might want a TV eventually.  All runs of RG6 would go back to a central location (in a garage or attic or somewhere you can conveniently access and run cables in from outside wherever you install antennas).  I might even consider a 3rd run of coax into some rooms for OTA support if I was going to put up an outdoor antenna.  I would also run at least one ethernet run to each room, and might consider more since the cabling is pretty cheap last I checked.  You can always install switches/hubs for more outlets in any given room so more than one ethernet connection isn't a huge thing... but at least one per room.

 

Oh... and make sure you label BOTH ends of each run of coax or ethernet... so that wherever you are, you can immediately know what cable connects to what room... especially if you are only going to use some of those now.


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#4 OFFLINE   BillJ

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 04:23 AM

I had similar questions so this is very helpful.  The surprise for me is that the Joey coax has to go back to the node.  I assumed that, like my 622s with output for TV 1 and TV 2, the Joey connected to the Hopper.  Thought I could use coax already running from each 622 (I have 2) to the second TV when I upgraded to Hoppers.  Sounds like I'll need to re-wire everything.

 

Next question, is that re-wiring, which includes wonderful time in my crawl space, included if Dish sends an installer to replace the two 622s with two Hoppers and two or more Joeys?



#5 OFFLINE   mgavs

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 09:00 AM

Aside from the coax.. since your building a new house don't waste putting analog wires in for phones, put lots of cat 6 in, Wherever you want a phone and all tv dvr etc. security cam locations. Ethernet wire eliminates wifi issues and latency, I use wired global cache controllers for TV, video and sound processors so I can control everything from iPads (also lights and works as cordless phones) with no latency. And more importantly if you use a POE switch you don't need to plug devices into power and... With a good ups on the switch will allow important devices to work during a power outage. I only mention this because I have met people who built house and we're sorry they did not do Ethernet. I have a switch that supplies up to 48 jacks with Poe, the nice thing is that the network stuff is on a ups so that the iPads and voip phones work during a power outage. Hope this helps.
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#6 OFFLINE   Grandude

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 10:22 AM

I would also add that it would be unwise to use Cat5 anywhere, only use Cat6 rated at 3Ghz.

 

I would also decide where you want the point of entry to the house.  Make sure you have line of site for a Dish near that point of entry and it is usually advisable to have this close to your power panel (circuit breaker box) which makes grounding the Dish or other system much easier.

 

Also make sure there is a power outlet next to your selected spot for nodes, etc.  May not see a need now, but who knows what the future might bring.


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#7 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 11:38 AM

I had similar questions so this is very helpful.  The surprise for me is that the Joey coax has to go back to the node.  I assumed that, like my 622s with output for TV 1 and TV 2, the Joey connected to the Hopper.  Thought I could use coax already running from each 622 (I have 2) to the second TV when I upgraded to Hoppers.  Sounds like I'll need to re-wire everything.

 

Next question, is that re-wiring, which includes wonderful time in my crawl space, included if Dish sends an installer to replace the two 622s with two Hoppers and two or more Joeys?

 

Technically... in the interest of brevity...  there is a way to wire up a Joey without a wire going back to the node.  I was giving the easiest most-future-proof scenarios for the topic starter since he was going to be running new wires everywhere anyway.

 

But... there is something call a "tap" that Dish has...  with the use of a tap, you can run one wire from the node to a tap, then one wire from the tap goes to a Hopper and the other wire from the tap goes to a Joey (or Joeys).

 

It wasn't worth mentioning for someone running new wires everywhere because you might as well run that wire back to the node for maximum future-proofing... but IF you're dealing with existing wires... IF you already had a wire that runs from one room to another, IF you put the Hopper in one of those rooms (with its cable going back to the node) then you could use the tap and the room-to-room wire to connect a Joey.  So... with existing wire you might be able to save yourself some new runs of cable.

 

What is and isn't "included" seems to vary.  Installation should include "normal" efforts to hook up whatever is on the work order... so if you ask for a Hopper and a Joey, they should be prepared to wire two rooms up for you.  I haven't had an installer yet refuse to do the wiring necessary for the work order... but if your crawl space is particularly difficult or anything, you might want to be prepared for a little resistance.


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#8 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 02:58 PM

I would also add that it would be unwise to use Cat5 anywhere, only use Cat6 rated at 3Ghz.

You've got your wires crossed here. You're thinking RG-59 .vs. RG-6.

CAT6 is specified to 250MHz and CAT6a is specified to 500MHz.

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#9 OFFLINE   Grandude

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 08:41 AM

You've got your wires crossed here. You're thinking RG-59 .vs. RG-6.

CAT6 is specified to 250MHz and CAT6a is specified to 500MHz.

I can't believe I made such a large goof.  I truly was thinking RG59 and Rg6 and should have head examined.  Seems like old age is catching up to me........dang-it.............

 

Anyway, any new installation should always use the latest and greatest, of just about anything, for future proofing.....


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#10 OFFLINE   eudoxia

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 11:08 AM

We wired up our house a few years back, it's on old house (1933) but while upgrading all the power we ran Cat 6 to each room. Since technology changes so quickly I would just stick with ethernet which will always be around.

 

Our kitchen was recently redone and we had our contractor run some wider PVC plumbing tube from from an AV faceplate to a wall so it was wide enough to run an HDMI cable from a cabinet to a wall mounted TV, but then again Cat 6 , 5e can be used to run HDMI. We currently have 2 long runs of ethernet from our living room Hopper to the kitchen TV since we didn't need another Joey (we don't need different tuners on each TV).


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#11 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 11:56 AM

Good to know that while Ethernet is a good choice to pre run, one can't forget coax as well


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#12 OFFLINE   pinkertonfloyd

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:06 PM

Yes, use RG6 that's 3Ghz... (usually marked as RG6 3000Mhz) There are other ratings for RG6 (2100 is the most common). For the 4 "bands" that Dish uses for the MOCA, and tuners...

 

Technically the 2100 is fine for Joeys, and 3K is a must for the Hopper... but you want to use 3K.

 

You don't need to run CAT5e/6 to each box as you can "bridge" the internet through the cable (one of the reasons for the RG6 3Ghz)... that said.. if you are pre-wiring, and running cables... Cat5 is cheap... pull the Coax and the either net (or two) together. Not just for the Joeys, but with so many devices and TV's using internet... it's a good idea.


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#13 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 05:28 PM

I'd also add use solid copper core rg6 not copper clad silver.

#14 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 10:57 PM

Just to throw another dime into the mix...  IF you're really into future-proofing...  you could also consider installing conduits before the walls go up so that if you did need to run any new cables in the future it would be easier.

 

If I was doing my dream setup... I would run multiple RG6 and extra Cat6 for ethernet/phone/etc and I'd put in some conduit in case I needed anything else down the road.


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#15 OFFLINE   shadough

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 02:16 PM

To add some more:  The wiring for the hopper can be run to 'standard outlet height', since the hopper is too big to fit behind the TV (unless you install a shelf under the TV on the wall).  For the Joeys, you can run cabling to behind the TV, if mounting on the wall, since the Joey can be nicely tucked behind the TV.

 

You may also want to have your contractor add power outlets behind the mounted TV locations.  You can request these be dedicated outlets, so you can put individual surge's on them, but you could just as easily put a local surge protector behind the TV.  You may also want to consider making those outlets 'quad's and 'recessed' outlets, so the power chords don't push on the back of the TV, especially if your cosidering the really flat, flat screens.


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#16 OFFLINE   shadough

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 02:26 PM

Your contractor can install the surge outlets themselves, cuz thinking about it now, the local surge protectors might not fit inside a recessed outlet.  The main point was to make sure your TVs are protected from surges.


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#17 OFFLINE   cditty

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 09:30 AM

When I rewired my home, I ran 3 RG6 Quad and 3 Cat 6 to each location.  Pretty future proof and if I am using OTA, no diplexers involved this way.



#18 OFFLINE   kydavis_md

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 09:18 PM

You guys are lifesavers!  Thanks for all of the tips!



#19 OFFLINE   Transplanted Yankee

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 06:48 AM

I did all my wiring while our house was being built as well.  I elected to run all the RG6Q to each room in a generic fashion along with Ethernet, each having it's own Home Run.

One thing you may want to strongly consider...Since you're into the pre-drywall phase of your construction, is wiring for sound.

I ran good quality speaker wire into the general rooms of the house and wired our main entertainment room for surround.  If you wire for sound now, you will not regret it down the road.

One word of advice...Once you have all your wires run and taped against insulation, or studs, take pictures of the location of your wires.  You will be soooo happy you took pictures.

Hope this helps you out.


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#20 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 12:47 PM

I hadn't thought about that... but yeah, running speaker wire isn't a bad idea either.  It sure beats having the speaker wire ran across the floor OR ran all around behind bookshelves and everything.


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