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DirecTV 4K UHD plans

DirecTV DTV 4k UHD

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#426 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 07:26 PM

Was thinking of purchasing a Samsung 4K set. For those that have 4k sets, was curious as to the Directv picture quality of HD programs on 4K sets. Does it look the same, worse or possibly better. Samsung says the HD picture will be upscaled and was wondering if the picture quality is indeed better. Also, does SD look any better?

 

So long as the 4K set is capable of 60 fps, there's no way it could look worse, because a 720p program has 3x the pixels in each dimension, a 1080i/1080p program 2x as many pixels in each dimension. Whether the upscaling really helps or not depends on the content and how closely you look at it, but I'm pretty sure it can be disabled if you don't like it so worst case it looks the same.

 

SD often looked worse on HD sets than SD sets because the dimensions (320x480 for broadcast NTSC, 640x480 for digital cable/satellite; both 4:3) don't fit evenly into the number of pixels in a HD screen, which was typically 1280x720 (especially on earlier HDTVs when there was still a lot of SD around) 1366x768, or 1920x1080 16:9. Between that, and simply dealing with viewing 4:3 content on a 16:9 screen via stretching or bars on the sides, made it pretty unpleasant to view.

 

4K won't suffer from that, same 16:9 format and 2-3x the pixels in either direction will make it a painless transition so even if it doesn't look better to your eye it won't look worse like SD often did on a HD TV.


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#427 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 10:05 PM

Good points. Another reason SD often looks worse is that when viewed on a newer, larger screen, the pixel-per-inch ratio gets even weaker, and the increased resolution of a 1080 screen underscores that. 


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#428 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:27 AM

I agree, but where's the evidence the station owners like Sinclair believe there is an untapped market in mobile devices viewing live OTA TV? They're the ones who must make the investment, not whoever was pushing for its inclusion in ATSC 3.0.


You really need to do your homework.

Sinclair is the most active of any Broadcast Company pushing the envelope in technology via ATSC 3.0 / ODFM.

Google it if you don't believe it.

They also had a BETTER idea than the 8VSB system for HDTV / ATSC years ago, but no one listened. That would have made reception much easier - and even allowed mobile reception in the initial ATSC specs.

http://www.tvtechnol...roadcast/272758

Edited by SomeRandomIdiot, 28 October 2014 - 12:43 AM.


#429 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:28 AM

While the broadcasters make a substantial initial investment, the viewers also have to make a substantial monetary commitment to whatever gear is required to receive mobile TV once the broadcasting side is in place.

I just can't see PBS going mobile to deliver Sesame Street to the minivan.


But they would prefer to deliver 4 HD Programs on a stream vs 1 HD and 2 SD....or 4 SD.

Edited by SomeRandomIdiot, 28 October 2014 - 12:29 AM.


#430 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:31 AM

Minivans that build in a TV screen for the back seat could add ATSC reception capability pretty cheaply compared to the overall price of the vehicle, but I agree, why restrict yourself to the TV station's schedule. That's why those minivans all come with a DVD player.
 
I wonder what the licensing costs will be? ATSC has or had some fairly substantial licensing fees (at least as far as FRAND licensing goes) If that's the same for ATSC 3.0, forget seeing it in any phones/tablets. They may implement it if the only cost is a bit of chip area, but if they have to pay a few dollars per phone, forget it.
 
Even then, Samsung dropping FM from recent phones despite having the FM hardware still in place inside them(!) doesn't bode well for ATSC 3.0 mobile gaining any traction with Android (there's zero chance Apple will ever add something that niche to the iPhone/iPad)


As you can see what it can deliver in an emergency situation (via the video clip) one wonders if the Government (House/Senate) or FCC will one day force inclusion, as they have already seen that Cell Data Systems fail in emergency situations. All it will take is a few more big emergency that the cell systems cannot handle. Considering 9-11 to the Hurricane in NYC late 2012, Cell Service has not been reliable. It even went down in DC during the Earthquake several years ago. We have not had a Cat 3 or Cat 4 hurricane hit a big American city since 2005, irc. Several more disasters and this will be mandated.

BTW, FM activated on Sprint Phones and NextRadio app that controls it has been downloaded over 1,000,000 times.

T-Mobile offering free mobile streaming for iHeartRadio and other similar apps.

I would not count anything out yet.

Edited by SomeRandomIdiot, 28 October 2014 - 12:39 AM.


#431 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:37 AM

Glad I haven't given up my unlimited data plan


M-DTV does not use any cell data, thus the selling point - and why Wireless does not want to include it in the phones.

#432 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:03 AM

M-DTV does not use any cell data, thus the selling point - and why Wireless does not want to include it in the phones.


Which undermines the entire premise. While broadcasters may THINK there is gold in the mobile hills, they need the wireless providers to allow reception. Since every wireless provider customizes the software on phones and tablets they sell, the chances of them permitting a feature that could reduce their wireless data revenue is unlikely to see the light of day (granted, Apple devices are less customized than Android, but Apple is unlikely to support it since they want to protect iTunes video sales). So, the only users will be those that pay full price for an open unlocked phone or tablet (a small minority of US cellular customers).

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#433 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 08:16 AM

Apple firmware is completely uncustomized by every carrier in the world, they don't have the signing keys that would allow them to modify it. There are "carrier updates" but they only specify stuff like which bands to use and disabling certain features Apple allows them to disable (like cellular tethering) Android is another matter, but I'm sure Google would like to cut them out of the loop if they could. The problem is that there are other alternatives like Tizen or FirefoxOS waiting in the wings that would gain instant carrier support if Google did so.

 

I agree that Apple won't support ATSC (or FM, absent a government mandate for emergency messages that I hope we can disable) but I don't agree it is because of protecting iTunes revenue. People always trot that out, as if Apple makes more than a fraction of their revenue/profit from iTunes. They make almost all their money on hardware sales, and most of that from iPhone alone. iTunes is an ever decreasing percentage since iPhone sales are still growing YoY - and iTunes revenue is actually declining now, as more people are going to streaming music on a monthly charge rather than buying music so there will be less to "protect" in the future. They aren't going to risk decreasing hardware sales, as even a 1% loss of sales due to preventing something people wanted would cost them far more than than whatever iTunes revenue they protected!


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#434 OFFLINE   knoxbh

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 09:03 AM

I wish Pandora had a car receiver the same as Sirius does (had that system but didn't like the music choices that Pandora has).  Would save having to hookup the phone or Ipad every time we travel, particularly locally.  Noticed that ads for Honda (I believe it was Honda) on the TV is stating that Pandora radio is included.


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#435 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:02 AM

Of course it is getting to the point where it is easier to turn the mini-van into a hotspot and use a data plan to feed content to the occupants than upgrade the TV to the DTV Mobile standards. :)

Here's the big issue. Until such time as the existing technology is relatively nasty compared to the new technology (such as DIRECTV has created with their SD service), the new technology is going to have a very difficult time making inroads.

It is bad enough that people will text in your face, imagine them shushing you because they're watching TV.

Edited by harsh, 28 October 2014 - 10:02 AM.

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#436 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:49 PM

Was thinking of purchasing a Samsung 4K set. For those that have 4k sets, was curious as to the Directv picture quality of HD programs on 4K sets. Does it look the same, worse or possibly better. Samsung says the HD picture will be upscaled and was wondering if the picture quality is indeed better. Also, does SD look any better?

 

I've seen Sammy 4Ks side by side with Sammy 1080ps with an HDMI feed and could not see any difference in PQ.  I don't know where the HDMI feed was coming from in those cases.  

 

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#437 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:50 PM

I've heard anecdotally that it's a touch better. But I'm one who'll have to see for myself, which I will do at CES in January. 

I doubt that SD will ever look ok to me, so I am the wrong guy to reply. 

 

I spent a lot of time looking at them side by side and the only difference I could see was the $1500 difference in price.  They sure didn't seem to be upscaling that feed.

 

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#438 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:55 PM

I can. The other major network stations are doing it to get their content delivered. I'm surprised there are not more mobile services available via ATSC.

Of course it is getting to the point where it is easier to turn the mini-van into a hotspot and use a data plan to feed content to the occupants than upgrade the TV to the DTV Mobile standards. :)

 

Chevrolet now has 4G LTE reception in some of their cars and they can easily be used as a hot spot.  Or so the commercial said. The ad showed a couple kids using tablets in the car and a guy with a laptop sitting outside his pickup merrily typing away.  Gotta wonder how much that costs.

 

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#439 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 01:20 PM

I spent a lot of time looking at them side by side and the only difference I could see was the $1500 difference in price.  They sure didn't seem to be upscaling that feed.

 

Rich

Sure. You really have to know what the feed is. At what distance were you comparing??


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#440 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 03:53 PM

Here's the big issue. Until such time as the existing technology is relatively nasty compared to the new technology (such as DIRECTV has created with their SD service), the new technology is going to have a very difficult time making inroads.

It is bad enough that people will text in your face, imagine them shushing you because they're watching TV.

 

Directv hasn't gone out of their way to lower quality of SD trying to increase HD uptake, since they're going to force people to drop SD anyway. That's simply the side effect of limited bandwidth on 101 versus the ever-increasing number of channels they have to carry.

 

Crappy SD quality might induce some people to upgrade, but may also induce them to switch to another provider, so it wouldn't be a very sound strategy IMHO...


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#441 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 11:17 PM

Which undermines the entire premise. While broadcasters may THINK there is gold in the mobile hills, they need the wireless providers to allow reception. Since every wireless provider customizes the software on phones and tablets they sell, the chances of them permitting a feature that could reduce their wireless data revenue is unlikely to see the light of day (granted, Apple devices are less customized than Android, but Apple is unlikely to support it since they want to protect iTunes video sales). So, the only users will be those that pay full price for an open unlocked phone or tablet (a small minority of US cellular customers).


Reread Post 430

#442 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 01:49 AM

Here's the big issue. Until such time as the existing technology is relatively nasty compared to the new technology (such as DIRECTV has created with their SD service), the new technology is going to have a very difficult time making inroads.

It is bad enough that people will text in your face, imagine them shushing you because they're watching TV.

That has been a minuscule market driver all along and will remain as such.

People upgrade primarily for how a new glass is half full (or more)...not how half empty the old glass was...

Providers can lead the way (which is what ESPN and some others have declared), follow the herd, or trail behind. The course has been defined. There will always be naysayers and people bringing up the rear on nearly every evolutionary direction.

No worries. Those nearer the front of the line get the longest enjoyment and benefits. Those in the rear whine, complain, make justifications, and live with old ways. It's always been that way and 4K UHDTV will be no different.
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#443 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 02:41 AM

and in a continuation - 8K is not that far from now ;)



#444 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 08:20 AM

That has been a minuscule market driver all along and will remain as such.

I disagree with this position. Look how long VHS held on versus the technically superior delivery formats and more recently, how many continue to buy DVDs in the clear presence of Blu-rays.

Having to upgrade everything is a bigger step than you allow and there is clearly no transition to 4K as there was to color TV or 3D.

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#445 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 12:03 PM

Sure. You really have to know what the feed is. At what distance were you comparing??

 

Well, they both had the same feed, so that's what caused me to come to the conclusion that they would play most of D*'s content (I have no interest in SD programming) as well as a 1080p set.  

 

On the sets that just had a single feed or used a flash drive I couldn't really make any comparisons, but I did walk backwards as far as I needed to to ensure myself that distance wasn't gonna be a problem.  At about 15 feet, I was still impressed by the quality of the pictures on several Samsungs.  

 

I haven't seen any sets other than Sammys and I think with all the work they've done to bring us 4K I'll be going with one of them when I make my purchase.  The only things that really bother me are the pricing and I have no idea if 4K will solve the "judders" problem that I have seen on older Samsungs and other brands of LCDs.  I don't like that.

 

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#446 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 12:12 PM

and in a continuation - 8K is not that far from now ;)

 

Careful, you'll have people saying you have to be a foot away from an 80" screen to see the difference.   :rolling: 

 

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#447 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 03:08 PM

I disagree with this position. Look how long VHS held on versus the technically superior delivery formats and more recently, how many continue to buy DVDs in the clear presence of Blu-rays.

Having to upgrade everything is a bigger step than you allow and there is clearly no transition to 4K as there was to color TV or 3D.

The transition is actually far less cumbersome than some would have you believe. It's mostly about investment and deployment...nominally about development.

 

As for the VHS reference...change in tech in 2014 takes place many times faster than in those "olden days"...just because the Boy Scouts still teach how to start a fire by rubbing together sticks like cavemen did it doesn't mean there remains much use of it anymore in overall civilization.


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#448 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 02:01 AM

The transition is actually far less cumbersome than some would have you believe. It's mostly about investment and deployment...nominally about development.
 
As for the VHS reference...change in tech in 2014 takes place many times faster than in those "olden days"...just because the Boy Scouts still teach how to start a fire by rubbing together sticks like cavemen did it doesn't mean there remains much use of it anymore in overall civilization.


There is if you plan to compete on Survivor (or go missing from a Denver Broncos Game......or go avoiding law enforcement in PA)....

#449 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 02:04 AM

The transition is actually far less cumbersome than some would have you believe. It's mostly about investment and deployment...nominally about development.
 
As for the VHS reference...change in tech in 2014 takes place many times faster than in those "olden days"...just because the Boy Scouts still teach how to start a fire by rubbing together sticks like cavemen did it doesn't mean there remains much use of it anymore in overall civilization.


http://advanced-tele...faster-than-hd/

#450 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 02:06 AM

and in a continuation - 8K is not that far from now ;)


Japan now shooting for 2016 testing....

http://www.pcworld.c...0-olympics.html

http://sportsvideo.o...-8k-innovation/

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  • NHK-120-60Hz1.jpg

Edited by SomeRandomIdiot, 30 October 2014 - 02:10 AM.






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