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DirecTV 4K UHD plans

DirecTV DTV 4k UHD

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#361 OFFLINE   GregLee

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:58 PM

Why does it seem that way?  I've seen several informal reports from people who claim to be able to easily distinguish 4k from 2k, and several have said that colors have a more solid appearance on the 4k displays.  Nothing to do with discerning individual pixels or picture details.

 

 

Having thought about this some more, I think I understand better the reports of improved color in 4k, and why seeing an improved picture with 4k does not have to do with whether you can see individual pixels.  In a sense, actually, the improvement comes because you can't discern the pixels.

 

As you all know, a color TV does not show all the colors we see on the screen directly, but depends on the perceptual merger of 3 RGB sub-pixels (or sometimes 4), and for a panel with 8 bit color depth, we get the perceptual effect of combining 2^8 values of the 3 sub-pixels, which gives (2^8)^3 = 2^24 colors.  (It's a little less, because not quite all the 2^8 values can be used for color.)  A way to improve the color is to use a panel with 10 or 12 bit color, which is expensive, however.

 

In the same screen area that a 2k TV has a single pixel, a 4k TV has four pixels, which gives it 4*3 = 12 RGB subpixels.  Since we can't discern the individual sub-pixels on a 2k set, of course we can't discern the still smaller sub-pixels on a 4k set, either, and the color we see at this spot on the screen will be a perceptual merger of the values given to the 12 sub-pixels.  The number of levels of red that can be shown with 4 red sub-pixels is 4 * 2^8 = 2^10 for an 8 bit panel.  So since we have more and smaller pixels, we get more colors, (2^10)^3, which is the number of different colors available on a 2k set that has a 10 bit panel.

 

The combining of several small pixels of varying colors to display additional intermediate shades, by dithering, is something that is already done by video cameras.


Edited by GregLee, 03 August 2014 - 06:02 PM.

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#362 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:25 AM

I'd think at this point it would be for 'future proofing' the production.

Since such a preponderance of new movies are based on or remakes of old themes or movies, I'm not convinced that is a goal.


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#363 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:31 AM

and in comcast land that may take 3-5 years for that hardware to come out.

As if the THR-22 came out the door at the early end of the projection and the HMC was ready by EOY 2006.


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#364 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:39 AM

 

In the same screen area that a 2k TV has a single pixel, a 4k TV has four pixels, which gives it 4*3 = 12 RGB subpixels.  Since we can't discern the individual sub-pixels on a 2k set, of course we can't discern the still smaller sub-pixels on a 4k set, either, and the color we see at this spot on the screen will be a perceptual merger of the values given to the 12 sub-pixels.  The number of different colors that can be shown is, accordingly, (2^8)^12 for an 8 bit panel.  So since we have more and smaller pixels, we get more colors.  Lots more.  (2^8)^12 = (2^32)^3, which is the number of different colors available on a 2k set that has a 32 bit panel.

This only matters if the processing hardware supports these extremes.  Real time encoding is going to be strained even if they make huge leaps above the current technology.  I'd bet that the providers will probably cut at least half of the theoretical capability out up front in the interest of fitting the stream within a reasonable bandwidth.


Edited by harsh, 03 August 2014 - 07:40 AM.

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#365 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:14 PM

Since such a preponderance of new movies are based on or remakes of old themes or movies, I'm not convinced that is a goal.

Another case of "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK"


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#366 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:03 PM

Since such a preponderance of new movies are based on or remakes of old themes or movies, I'm not convinced that is a goal.


I guess don't really get what Hollywood likes to do just like you don't get directv half the time. Do you know how many millions of dollars Hollywood spends to keep and restore old prints every Year? They always want the best quality they can get when it makes any semblance of sense to do.

#367 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:52 PM

Do you know how many millions of dollars Hollywood spends to keep and restore old prints every Year?

 

Until they let college interns into the vaults that end up throwing out much of irreplaceable masters.



#368 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:19 PM

I don't think I they let interns into the vaults hundreds of feet underground in Kansas or whichever state around there it is..

#369 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:30 AM

I don't think I they let interns into the vaults hundreds of feet underground in Kansas or whichever state around there it is..

 

 

They were not always stored there. Check a bit into history and you will find that either UCLA (though it might have been USC) interns threw out many masters years ago - film and master tapes of TV and LPs.


Edited by SomeRandomIdiot, 05 August 2014 - 12:31 AM.


#370 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 09:39 PM

Yeah maybe ages ago when they where not realizing money could be made from all these additional avenues of vcr tapes, then dvd, then blu Ray, then 4k then.... Not to mention rerelease ins movies in theaters. Dvd is really what helped launch a massive amount of restorations of old prints for movies and some tv.
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#371 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:15 AM

http://www.multichan...-website/383154

 

CableLabs Boots Up 4K Video Sharing Website Provides Access To 4K Fare Under The Creative Commons License8/13/2014 12:45 PM Eastern
cablelabs%204K%20%20450x345.jpg?itok=-KQ
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CableLabs' new 4K microsite will offer an expanding library of Ultra HD video for non-commercial testing and demonstrations

CableLabs has launched a 4K-focused microsite that provides access to Ultra HD/4K video clips to help platform developers, vendors, network operators and other video pros conduct tests with the emerging eye-popping format. 

 

CableLabs said it’s offering the content under the Creative Commons License, meaning it can be used freely for non-commercial testing, demonstrations and the general advancement of technology.

 

As vendors utilize content from the site to test new technology, CableLabs helps the industry get one step closer to standardizing 4K content and delivering to the home.

 

As of this writing, the site hosts seven videos, all shot with a Red Epic camera. The longest of the batch is a fireman-focused clip titled “Seconds That Count”  that runs 5 minutes and 22 seconds.

 

On the site, CableLabs has integrated an upload form for anyone who wants to share their 4K videos for the purpose of testing. Interested particiapnts are directed to provide a lower bite-rate HD file for preview purposes along with a 4K version.  CableLabs is accepting pre-transcoded versions using MPEG HEVC or AVC, or Apple ProRes version.  CableLabs will take on the task of transcoding the content into two high quality versions available for download on the website.

 

“Our intent is to make this a marquis website for vetting next-generation content that can be available to platform developers and network operators,” the site FAQ reads. “By sharing your video content through this site, you have the opportunity to gain unique connections directly with cable operators around the world.”

 

CableLabs notes that uploaded content might be used for demos at forums, shows, and conferences.

 

CableLabs is launching the site as the cable industry just begins to develop plans around 4K. Among major U.S. MSOs, Comcast plans to launch an Internet-based, on-demand Xfinity TV 4K app before the end of the year that will initially be available on new Samsung UHD. The MSO is also working with partners on a new generation of boxes for its X1 platform that uses HEVC and can decode native 4K signals.

 

On the competitive front, DirecTV president and CEO Mike White said on the company's second quarter earnings call that the satellite TV giant will be ready to deliver 4K video on an on-demand basis this year, and be set up to follow with live 4K streaming next year or by early 2016.

 

 

 

http://4k.cablelabs.com



#372 OFFLINE   gphvid

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 04:05 AM

The move to 4k will be even easier considering many movies are already shot in it. Natural attrition will take care of it. It was much more difficult to change everything to a totally new technology where as this is simply a newer version of the same. They won't need to build new studios and such as they did for Hi Definition. Hi Definition was a much much more massive undertaking.

And as for 1080p. I believe several channels are already done completely in 1080p and downgraded for distribution. NFL network and I think espn are among them but not positive about espn.

While movie and TV production might be in 4k now, it will be bandwidth that will be the issue for transmission.  It took some time before they got a decent codec for 2k transmission.  I expect 4k to take as long if not longer.  And I do not expect true 4k from alot of different sources for quite some time.



#373 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:23 AM

Past experience says it will take less and less time to get a good codec for 4k transmission, and in fact I read the other day someone (forgot who and where, think it was in Japan as usual) already figured out a low bandwidth way to broadcast full 4k...


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#374 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 11:35 AM

Past experience says it will take less and less time to get a good codec for 4k transmission, and in fact I read the other day someone (forgot who and where, think it was in Japan as usual) already figured out a low bandwidth way to broadcast full 4k...


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The more I look at the 4K TVs the more I want one.  Just give me enough content and I'll happily buy one.

 

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#375 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 11:43 AM

I'd say wait a year I think pricing will come down even more and content will Increase significantly.


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#376 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 01:43 PM

You're both in my camp! However, until my gorgeous Sammy plasma starts to falter, I'm most likely on the sidelines, rooting for 4k....


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